A lot of guys who try online dating (of the heterosexual kind) complain that they send out message after message to the ladies and get no responses. Now, I’m no dating expert, but I would like to offer these gentlemen a piece of advice that I feel could dramatically improve their chances. Here it is:
If the message you are sending the lass you fancy would get upvotes on The Spearhead, do not send it.
This seems like a fairly self-evident point, but it’s one that a lot of guys don’t seem to understand, at least judging from some of the awful online come-ons posted at the always fabulous A(n)nals of Online Dating. Take this fella:
[M]en have an obligation to rescue kittens from burning buildings, pay for your drinks, hold the door open for you, keep their hair neat, go to war and many other things. I’m just saying… Society worldwide really does put more obligations on men than women all around. There are few things women have to do… Shaving your legs is one of them.
I’m not sure how exactly this topic came up in conversation, but I’m pretty sure that Mr. Mammoth-Hunting Kitten-Rescuing Door-Holder-Opener and Lady Who Doesn’t Shave Her Legs are probably not a match made in Internet heaven.
This guy’s strategy is also somewhat problematic:
A so-cal Brooklyn transplant who believes in grammar, manners, music, and humor. I’m nice to my mother, always smile at dogs and babies, and am in the process of pleading that statutory rape charge down to a misdemeanor.
Yeah, it’s probably not a good idea to open with a joke about raping underage girls. Assuming it is a joke.
This message would be a bad idea regardless of gender:
RON PAUL REVOLUTION!! GIVE US BACK OUR CONSTITUTION!!!! lol sorry
Sorry indeed.
This next fellow is a bit of a Stealth Misogynist, in that he starts out with some actual compliments directed toward an actual women. Really creepy compliments, but complements nonetheless. Then we get a plot twist that’s about as shocking as the big reveal in M. Night Shyamalan’s The Village. Which is to say, so obvious that it could probably be spotted from space.
When I look at you I see very happy, fun loving, sexy, good girl. I love looking through your photos, I only wish there were more. Do you enjoy being obedient to the male figures in your life?
David K. Meller, is that you?
“You’re not even trying now.”
Trying for what? You, Cassandra, Oxy, Rutee, say things in circles that make no sense.
I very clearly articulate what my views are –
1. Death in cases of provable rape (DNA, not he said/she said) with emphasis on cases of serial, child and infant rape and Cass comes up with “I totally believe that we should execute anyone accused of rape. No need to hold a trial or collect evidence or anything, we’ll just shoot them. With a bright pink feminist gun, for great justice.” In an attempt to what – make fun of me or re-articulate my view as she understood it. Either way, no better solution is articulated from her side.
2. I clearly state the religion-that-shant-be-named needs to be Feminized (as well as any and all other cults or institutions that are in need of being more equitable) and I get accused of being a NON Feminist!!! Really!?!?!
Can you do the math on that one for me because it doesn’t equate.
3. I say stereotypes exist for a reason, people jump on my for that, and when I give the example that if a guy tells you he’s the webmaster of an MRA site that you can probably surmise what sort of content will be on it – I’M ACCUSE OF BEING A FRICKIN MAN, of all things!!!
4. Ozy writes, “I’m an evil hateful monster! Raaarrrgggh! I hate men and eat penises for breakfast, lunch and dinner! *makes raptor claws with hands*” I guess in an attempt to join in on the making fun of me, yet I’ve NEVER used the word hate in my comments or accused any one here of “hating” RATHER SHE (Ozy) very clearly wrote yesterday that she “hates” both socons and Tea Partiers. I simply aasked her “why” (to which I haven’t seen an answer).
You people appear to me to very, very, very confused and unclear. Not only about me and where I’m coming from (even though I write my views very clearly in my posts, I don’t see how there could be any confusion, especially wrt me being both a female AND a Feminist, but you seem to be confused about what YOU believe in and stand for, if that is, you believe in and stand for anything.
Other than jumping on me for the views you THINK I hold, or telling other commenters “that’s not ok” or “that’s not ‘cool'” when they say something you might not quite agree with, (or maybe, uh, er, you slightly-kind-of-might do), I really haven’t seen any of you articulate any kind of definitive view or opinion on ANYTHING.
So maybe THAT’S what confuses you about me – the fact that I have clearly defined opinions?
@ Sharculese – Yeah, I’ve seen similar stuff from college-aged feminists before. I’m sure I said some wacky things when I first got into Marxism, which is why I’m retaining some suspicion that she may not be a troll. But it seems less and less likely over time.
Sharculese, “i dont think nc4om is a troll. i had a close friend in college who was just discovering feminism but wasnt ready to give up the rest of her traditional worldview. a lot of the shit nc4om says could have come out of her mouth.”
Nope, that’s not it. I’m not politically correct and I think PC is a bunch of bullshit. The reason why I confuse you and the other ladies here is that they are politically correct and expect other Feminists to be as well. If someone is a Feminist but not pc, then in their closed minded worldview, well, she then can’t really be an authentic Feminist.
I’m not a fence sitter. I have strong opinions about certain things in life. I take stand.
People are of course welcome to disagree with me, but for them to accuse me of not being a Feminist, well – that’s just out of left field.
You also wrote, “i dont think nc4om is a troll. i had a close friend in college who was just discovering feminism but wasnt ready to give up the rest of her traditional worldview”…..
I’m curious to know what “the rest of the traditional worldview” that you thought she should give up in order to be a “real” Feminist.
I gave up the-religion-that-should-not-be-named (talk about a traditional worldview! it doesn’t get more traditional that that!), and I also articulated why I thought that particular religion was not congruent with today’s Feminism, and the so-called “Feminists” of this blog jumped down my throat like you wouldn’t believe!!!
Again, I don’t get it. I don’t get it at all.
XANTHE,
False flag feminist fails feasibility?
“I’ve long held that rape should be met with the death penalty and that this would actually SAVE mens’ lives from ruin because men would then be scared shitless to do something like “date rape” or “grey area” rape, as MRAs would put it.”
Where’s the false flag there???
NC4OM,
“Political correctness” merely means being accommodating of other people’s needs. It means not using shaming language or language that has oppressive baggage, and it means being considerate of other viewpoints and life experiences. It also means that you have a commitment to thoroughly examining the evidence from all persons involved in a political or ethical situation. It doesn’t mean being… I don’t know, a pushover, or that you aren’t willing to disagree with people. When people rail against being “PC” I mostly think that they’re trying to justify being a jerk, or defending their “right” to not consider things outside their own privileged position.
Your position on the death penalty for rapists appears to show that you’re more concerned about doing harm to rapists for hurting poor little womens and childrens than actually being a reasoned position about the deterrence effect. Mostly because 1. you appear way too interested in eviscerating them publicly, meaning you have no consideration for the humanity of the accused rapist and 2. you don’t appear to give a shit whether or not non-rapist men live their lives in terror due to said nasty punishment. Also, you’ve said that you support the death penalty only in the case of rape and serial murder, which implies that you think raping someone deserves a harsher punishment than murdering them, which is a totally non-intuitive position which points to you merely being extremely squicked out by rape rather than fully understanding the harm it does to somebody.
That is why we’re saying you aren’t a very informed or thoughtful feminist.
Posted too before I finished, for Xanthe
False flag feminist fails feasibility?
“I’ve long held that rape should be met with the death penalty and that this would actually SAVE mens’ lives from ruin because men would then be scared shitless to do something like “date rape” or “grey area” rape, as MRAs would put it.”
Where’s the false flag there??? An MRA, maybe FF?, was going on about dis or dat and I wrote the above. The MRAs are always howling like banshees about “false allegations”. If you do the research these “false allegations” arise out of situations that the MRAs refer to as “buyers’ remorse” after having sex on “date” or with drinking involved. Without getting into the details of particular situations, the general bottom line is that “false allegations” arise out of situations where a MAN is indeed involved. If these same men know that PROVEN RAPE could result in the death penalty, well then, they will be EXTRA EXTRA CAREFUL when dealing with women, and they won’t even think about trying anything if she’s drunk.
So that solves 2 problems – the problem of date rape, drunk rape AND the problem of what the MRAs call “buyers remorse false allegations: that could arise out of a date or drunk scenario.
In other words, the men who are getting “falsely accused” are men who ARE THERE. Whether they did straight out rape the woman or whether there was some “grey area” as MRAs say, there’s no denying that these men were there hovering around the woman in some way. If he’s not there (because he’s cautious), there will be no rape, falsely accused or otherwise.
Its a win/win – for the women AND for the men.
Let’s ban partying. Great idea!
I notice, No Cuntry, that you’ve failed to actually answer anyone’s criticisms of your “death penalty for rape” position. You just keep reasserting it. And calling people PC isn’t an answer, by the way. It’s a brush-off.
NC4OM, capital punishment is ethically abhorrent when the system fucks up (which it does in a non-trivial number of cases) and financially, turns out to be much more expensive than either long-term incarceration or rehabilitation. Plus I assume that despite your frequent reference to being South Asian you now live in the US which has a ridiculously high prison population compared to other first world countries. That you think such a disproportionate punishment for rape is justified as a deterrent (when criminals simply don’t view it that way) is a gift for the MRAs and anti-feminists to cherry-pick your views, and misquote you as “Look, here’s a feminist who wants to kill the men”. That’s why I called your feminism a false flag – you’re the sort of ally who is doing feminism no favours at all. Why don’t you go off to Fact Finder’s blog and take up residence there, you’d get along really well with someone who wants to quote mine feminism for shit that most people in the movement wouldn’t agree to.
i refuse to acknowledge that the phrase ‘politically correct’ exists. it is is a tepid gray nothing whistling across my mind.
Also, if you think the rape conviction rate wouldn’t plummet considerably if we raised the stakes to death, you’re sorely misinformed. And you do realize that even in cases where there’s DNA evidence, rapists often use the defense that it was actually consensual or ambiguously consensual sex, right? Do you think with the current attitudes towards rape in this society (i.e. who gives a shit) that a jury would really want to sentence a poor dude who “just misunderstood her signals” to *death*? Acquaintance rape and “drunk rape” are already not likely to be prosecuted. It’s likely that in your world, they would even be even fewer convictions than there already are.
Also, you’ve said that rape should only get the death penalty if there’s some extremely high standard of proof (DNA, you said, but that’s really not the highest standard). What should rapes that don’t meet that standard get? Should the rapist walk free or should they be whipped 500 times in the square?
PC is just basic fucking manners in mixed company.
No Cuntry 4 Old Men! —
And if you’re on an airplane and the person next to you introduces themselves, and in the course of a conversation, mentions that they are a heart surgeon//plumber//zookeeper, is it stereotyping if you assume they operate on hearts//build and maintain plumbing//work with exotic animals for a living?
Also, do you really think imposing capital punishment for rape is going to increase the absolutely shitful low rate at which rapes get treated seriously, get as far as a trial and a conviction? Raising the stakes in the case of a guilty verdict will almost certainly result in juries returning lower conviction rates, which is not a “win/win” situation for women or men.
15 Reasons NC4OM Is Probably a Troll
by Katz
1. S/he shares a handle with a prominent poster on MRA boards.
2. S/he has heard of Susan Walsh, but not Margaret Atwood.
3. S/he thinks Asia is a country and exoticizes it.
4. S/he extols the virtues of Hindu arranged marriages.
5. S/he is extremely Islamophobic and doesn’t believe in freedom of religion.
6. S/he uses Marxism as an insult.
7. S/he strongly supports the death penalty.
8. Corollary: S/he believes that making an example of some people is a great way to deter crime.
9. S/he uses the word PC unironically.
10. S/he capitalizes words for emphasis.
11. S/he can’t use blockquotes.
12. S/he believes stereotypes are useful ways to learn about people.
13. S/he repeats talking points verbatim over and over.
14. S/he takes over all the threads to talk about one unrelated thing.
15. S/he accuses everyone else of being wrong/stupid/not understanding his/her perfectly clear and obviously true statements.
I don’t know if she’s really a troll, but I do find it odd that she keeps showing up under different names. That is very troll-like behavior.
Plus, annoying as all get out.
“NC4OM, capital punishment is ethically abhorrent when the system fucks up (which it does in a non-trivial number of cases)”
New scientific technology such as that which is used to gather DNA, makes fuck ups tremendously less likely than they used to be.
Remember, I said proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, with DNA, not he said/she said.
I’ve already stated yesterday (its very tiring to have to repeat myself), that this fear would indeed deter psychologically “normal” men who might think, as they do now, “ah well, were both making out and we’re both tipsy, so why don’t I just try to push this scenario a bit further”.
Will it deter psychotic serial rapists like Ted Bundy? Most likely not. They will rape and they will get the death penalty. But the “normal” guys (the guys who MRAs are saying get “falsely accused”) HELL YEAH, it will deter them.
And in the case of people who are raping infants, crushing their tiny skulls with the weight of their body – there is absolutely NO WAY I’m going to “reconsider” my stance on the death penalty for them.
NO. FUCKING. WAY.
No amount of “but consider this guys ‘humanity'” bullshit is going to make me say, “ah well, all he did was rape and kill or rape and nearly kill a tiny newborn. Other than that he must be a nice guy, so yeah, he’s worth redeeming and once ‘reformed’ will turn out to contribute great things to civilization”
NO. FUCKING. WAY. IN. HELL.
FactFinder:
So you’re in favor of prejudice?
(Question: poor wording or inadvertantly revelatory? Or what he meant to say?)
Soc K:
Ah, you’re an asshole.
I know you know, but I want to explain it to those playing along at home:
It’s a form of gotcha. The idea is that the “feminist” will say something horrible, wait for people to agree, and then say (elsewhere, if they’re smart) “see, look how horrible they are, they agreed with this horrible statement!”
Like most such gotchas, it fails because it requires your caricature — your stereotype, if you will — of the people you’re trying to bait to be the reality.
Soc K
There’s also no consensual sex. I personally know women who would not consider that a win.
Of course, because labs aren’t backlogged already with DNA, evidence never gets degraded, and everyone always goes for a rape kit. Oh, and police departments have endless resources to make this happen.
Excuse me, but what fucking planet are you from?
Again, No Cuntry, repetitive assertions with no counterargument.
“3. S/he thinks Asia is a country and exoticizes it.”
That was YOU, you fool. I said I grew up in Asia and you ASSumed in one country.
Idiot.
“i refuse to acknowledge that the phrase ‘politically correct’ exists. it is is a tepid gray nothing whistling across my mind.”
I love the phrase “politically correct” because it serves as such a convenient way for people who say “I’m just not PC” to identify themselves as ignorant fools who don’t give a shit whether or not they hurt other people. I highly encourage people to flag themselves that way – it saves me a lot of time I might otherwise spend figuring out that they’re jerks and proud of it.
“And in the case of people who are raping infants, crushing their tiny skulls with the weight of their body – there is absolutely NO WAY I’m going to ‘reconsider’ my stance on the death penalty for them. Other than that he must be a nice guy, so yeah, he’s worth redeeming and once ‘reformed’ will turn out to contribute great things to civilization”
Um. I doubt anyone here is actually saying that anyone who does that is a “nice guy”.
(Also? Holy cripes, that obscenely detailed description made me slightly ill just to *read*…)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stereotype?show=1&t=1321418302
We call this fallacy “false equivalency”. MRAs are a discreet group sharing a political theory, whereas men are almost half of humanity, three billion plus people. Can you see how a generalization about the former is less likely to be oversimplified, prejudicial, or uncritical than a generalization about the latter?
Also, on the PC thing, crying “PC Police” is a sure sign that your behavior is that of a bigoted or foolish asshole. This is the rallying cry of bigots and fools when people call them out on their bullshit. No one here is going to give you a fucking free pass on your words, views, and actions just because you start flailing and yelling “PC! PC!” (if nothing else, I am known for my odes to civility XD ).
Xanthe, “is a gift for the MRAs and anti-feminists to cherry-pick your views, and misquote you as “Look, here’s a feminist who wants to kill the men”. That’s why I called your feminism a false flag – you’re the sort of ally who is doing feminism no favours at all. ”
I’m not looking to be your “ally”. I’m a Feminist and an individual. In your tiny worldview all Feminists have to share the same exact views on everything. That’s just your tiny worldview Xanthe. In the real world Feminists differ.
Heck, a commenter here even mentioned the-religion-that-shant-be-named-feminists. If THEY can be called “Feminists” then I sure as hell can too.
Assuming that the police department actually submitted their rapekits for forensic analysis.
As for the legal process, that’s a crap shoot, and I refer you to my previous post as well as kladle’s who made a similar point.
Nice job of dehumanising people there. You’d be hard pressed to find anyone on this blog who supports people who commit statutory rape (apart from trolls like Slavey), but that doesn’t mean that we support the inhuman treatment you’d like to dish out.