MRA: Who cares if #MenCallYouThings? It’s not like women have any real problems.

I read that post you linked to and I can’t agree that it’s an example of paranoia and misogyny.

Well, let’s look at the opening paragraph:

have been asked the question, “What would you do if a woman showed interest in you?” Putting aside how that will probably never happen, I wouldn’t trust her. It would be strange that after being treated like a leper by women for my entire life since puberty, that one woman would suddenly think different. Chances are she’s up to no good. I found a link about a woman who married a man who is a good man and a good provider, but fucks other men who are the actual fathers of her children that shows that I would be right. This cunt’s own words show how evil she is.

I’m honestly bemused as to how anyone could think that this doesn’t illustrate paranoia and misogyny of the most glaring kind. Consider: we start off with a personalised hypothetical scenario, based on the question “What would you do if a woman showed interest in you?” Immediately, he says “I wouldn’t trust her… chances are she’s up to no good.”

And then, after ranting about this one individual “cunt” (a viciously misogynist term that he uses no fewer than six times), with which he has no connection – in other words, he could have picked literally any other example out of three-and-a-half billion women on the planet – he concludes:

As I said at the beginning I doubt that any woman will actually ever show interest in me, but if it does happen I know the truth. Since I know the truth, I will not let what happend to the above cunt’s husband happen to me.

If I’d used the same logic, I’d cancel a much-anticipated dinner date on Saturday because the existence of women like Vanessa George and Myra Hindley means that our babysitter might be an evil psychopath who’ll post sexually graphic pictures of my kids online or even kidnap and murder them.

Or she might not.

Which do you think is statistically much more likely?

Now you could ask “why take the risk?” Which is a perfectly reasonable position to take, but it would condemn me to something like twenty years of having no evening-based social life whatsoever. Much though my wife and I enjoy each other’s company, I’m not sure that that’s a sacrifice I’d want to make to prevent something infinitesimally unlikely from happening.

Consider the example OVR used. There are a lot of women who are committing (paternity) fraud like that. Inexperienced men are a target for those types of women because no other women are interested in them. I think it’s a good thing that OVR is aware of this reality.

I think it’s a very good idea to be aware of certain possibilities. That’s why I dropped a girlfriend after I discovered absolutely incontrovertible evidence that she’d lied to me about something important about our relationship, and I didn’t think twice about it. My attitude was essentially “OK, if she’s prepared to tell me a direct lie about something important, what else is she prepared to do?”

But it’s one thing to be aware of certain possibilities, and it’s quite another to develop an absolute conviction that you’ll be the victim of such a chain of circumstances. Statistically, you probably won’t. So why condemn yourself to a life of bitter, paranoid loneliness when the alternative is so much more attractive?

It’s clear to me that OVR is if nothing else an honest person so what some women did to him along with the lack of women willing to stand up for him is as he documented. If you are serious about wanting to help him, then you have to admit that he is telling the truth about what happened to him. I don’t see you doing that so until you do your stated desire to help OVR is a lie.

My stated desire was based on my initial impression that he was a shy, insecure virgin – I know people like that in real life and I’m only too happy to help them: in fact, in one case I introduced him to what turned out to be the perfect partner and his life was absolutely turned around. But I changed my mind about OVR very quickly after reading some of his viciously misogynist screeds: frankly, I’m not qualified to help turn someone like that around.

And while I naturally assume that all personal anecdotes on his blog are based on fact, I take very strong issue with the way he’s used this and other cherry-picked stories as an excuse to damn and belittle all women – which is demonstrably ridiculous quite aside from being completely counterproductive.

I’m sure if he posted here and cut down on the aggressive misogyny, he’d find people more than willing to be supportive – just look at what happened to MRAL when he let slip his own concerns about his appearance and his lack of social skills in between his similarly paranoid rants. To this day, people – many of whom are women – are being much nicer to him than most of his posts deserve.

We’ve all named excellent female writers. The new game should be to name feminist writers that AREN’T Simone de Beavoir, Betty Friedan, or Andrea Dworkin.

I’ll start.

Michael Kimmel (Excellent work on masculinities)
bell hooks (“feminism is for everybody”)
Kevin Powell (Ex-abuser who spoke out in the essay “The Sexist in Me”)
Deborah Cameron (funny, eloquent, and fiercly well-researched writings on language, gender, and identity).

I suspect indifference rather than hatred is the real problem.

But if you don’t make an effort to be appealing or even noticeable, indifference is the most likely result.

Primarily but not Totally Feminists of Color and Womanists doing intersectional work w/some annotations.

Anzaldua, Gloria, ed. Making Face, Making Soul/Haciendo Caras: Creative and Critical Perspectives by Women of Color. San Francisco: Aunt Lute Foundation, 1990.
Bridge Called My Back is of course the first, ground-breaking one (discussed in Chapter Three) — but this most recent one makes a lot of points, including the fact that there still isn’t a whole lot out there in anthology/book form by women of color. Quite long enough for a whole course.

Cade, Toni. The Black Woman. New York: Random House, 1980.
This is a reprint — original appeared about the same time as Morgan’s Sisterhood is Powerful — but of course did not receive the recognition. Multiple essays — some by soon to be more well known African American women activists/writers. Very powerful stuff, paying little attention to “white women” at the time.

Carby, Hazel V. Reconstructing Womanhood. New York: Oxford University Press, 1987.
A key one for me — literary history of African American women writers, activists. Goes back a ways, as well as dealing with contemporary issues.

Collins, Patricia Hill. Black Feminist Thought: Knowledge Consciousness, and the Politics of Empowerment. Cambridge: Unwin Hyman, 1990.
An excellent work (by single writer), although some accusation of “essentialism” has been made. I found it very useful.

Davis, Angela. Women, Race and Class. New York: Random House, 1981.
Almost any of her theoretical works do a good job of dealing with race, gender and CLASS issues. Clearly written and intellectually rigorous on all levels.

Giddings, Paula. When and Where I Enter: The Impact of Black eWomen on Race and Sex in America. New York: William Morrow, 1984.
One of the most important sources for me — a historical examination of black women’s involvement in activism reaching back to the (or before the I forget) Civil War — starting with work against lynching, ownership of newspapers, etc. Coming up to the present, a good critique of the sixties/seventies movement by middle class white women.

Hirsch, Marianne, and Evelyn Fox Keller, ed. Conflicts in Feminism. New York: Routledge, 1990.
Very good recent anthology focussed around debates within feminism, and differences among feminists — essays.

hooks, bell. Ain’t I a Woman: Black Women and Feminism. Boston: South End Press, 1981.
—. Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center. Boston: South End Press, 1984.
—. Talking Back: Thinking Feminist, Thinking Black. Boston: South End Press, 1989.
—. Yearning: Race, Gender and Cultural Politics. Boston: South End Press, 1990.
I think hooks should be recommended reading for everyone — anyone of them is great. FEM THEORY is a major critique that points out not only problems but solutions to problems within feminism (and within civil rights) discourse and activism.

Morris, Bonnie. “A Separate Violence: The Politics of Shaming,” NWSA Journal 4.2 (Summer 1992): 200-204.

Michie, Helena. “Not One of the Family: The Repression of the Other Woman in Feminist Theory.” Barr and Feldstein, Discontented Discourses, 15-28.

Marleen S. Barr and —, and Richard Goldstein, ed. Dicontented Discourses: Feminism/Textual Intervention/Psychoanalysis. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1984.

Two articles I found useful: the first talks about how feminists have resorted to public “scoldings” or accusations (of racism etc) that shut down discourse and punish women just coming into feminist consciousness. The other talks about the problems of the “sisterhood” model of feminism, based on “family” structures that are patriarchal and oedipal.

JOANNA RUSS: Lit theory and criticism I just love

—. “The Image of Women in Science Fiction.” Cornillion, Images of Women, 79-94.
—. Magic Mommas, Trembling Sisters, Puritans and Perverts. Trumansburg, N.Y.: The Crossing Press, 1985.
—. “What Can a Heroine Do? or Why Women Can’t Write.” Cornillion, Images of Women, 3-20.
—. “Recent Feminist Utopias.” Barr, Future Females, 71-85.

Heilbrun, Carolyn. Writing a Woman’s Life. New York: Norton, 1985.
This doesn’t FIT anywhere — biography? feminist theory? literary criticism? Focuss on women writers (European and American) in a whole different way — very wonderfully and clearly written. On how women’s lives have to be narrativized in a whole different way.

Spillers, Hortense J. “Interstices: A Small Drama of Words.” Pleasure and Danger: Exploring Female Sexuality. Ed. Carole S. Vance. Boston: Routledge and K. Paul, 1984.
—. “Mama’s Baby, Papa’s Maybe: An American Grammar Book.” diacritics. summer 1987.
—. “Notes on an alternative model–neither nor.” Feminism and Critical Theory. Ed.

Elizabeth A. Meese. Amsterdam, PHiladelphia: J. Benjamin Pub. Co., 1989..
I don’t know about Spillers in undergraduate course, but would be required reading in graduate courses. Maybe one in undergraduate course — I am using Mama’s Baby in my 200 level lit course; it’s hard reading, but I explain it as best I can. Wonderful blend of therotical work and analysisof race andpower relations in US.

Williams, Patricia J. The Alchemy of Race and Rights: Diary of a Law Professor. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1991.
She’s doing this critical legal study stuff, taking literary theory about language and applying it to law; wonderful essays and intersection on race and gender. Absolutely superb blend of personal experience, theory, and analysis.

Warhol, Robyn R. and Diane Price Herndl, eds., Feminisms: An Anthology of Literary Theory and Criticism. New Brunswick, N.J.: Rutgers University Press, 1991.
This is the anthology I mentioned — the latest one that gives a good collection of essays that would be great for an introductory or more survey oriented course. Good to supplement of course.

Trinh, T. Minh-ha. Woman, Native, Other: Writing Postcolonialism and Feminism Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1989.
—. When the Moon Waxes Red: Representation, Gender and Cultural Politics. New York: Routledge, 1991.
A good choice of one book to supplement — cultural analysis, absolutely wonderful! — only problem is choosing which one. She’s also a filmmaker, could get some of her films.

Walker, Alice. In Search of Our Mother’s Gardens: Womanist Prose. New York: Harcourt, Brace, Jovanovich, 1983.
More literary essays, but wonderful stuff!

Haraway, Donna J. Simians, Cyborgs and Women: The Reinvention of Nature. New York: Routledge: 1991.
More of a science orientation — and Marxist analysis — she’s a biologist, has some wonderful stuff on SF as well.

AUTOBIOGRAPHY

Chisholm, Shirley. The Good Fight. New York: Harper and Row, 1973.
—. Unbought and Unbossed. Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1970.
Chisholm’s personal and political autobiographies (out of print I’m afraid now) are incredibly useful — reserve list maybe?– and wonderful and NEGLECTED.

Crow Dog, Mary, and Richard Erdoes. Lakota Woman. New York: Grove Weidenfeld, 1990.
Mary Crow Dog was at Wounded Knee — very good autobiography in a vernacular style.

Davis, Angela. Angela Davis: An Autobiography. New York: Random House, 1974.

—. If They Come in the Morning: Voices of Resistance. New York: The Third Press, Joseph Okpatu Publishing Company, 1971.

The first is her autobiography of becoming radical; the second is a collection of letters and essays on her imprisonment and trial. Very useful companion to Chisholm!

Lorde, Audre. Zami: A New Spelling of My Name. Trumansburg, NY: Crossing Press, 1982.
You probably know this one — beautiful autobiography, the more pointed since she recently died (I haven’t read her Cancer Journals but I bet they’re amazing.)

Murray, Pauli. The Autobiography of a Black Activist, Feminist, Lawyer, Priest, and Poet. 1987: Song in a Weary Throat: An American Pilgrimage. University of Tennessee Press, 1989.
—. Proud Shoes: The Story of an American Family. New York: Harper, 1956.
—. “The Liberation of Black Women.” Voices 87-102.

Thompson, Mary Lou. Voices of the New Feminism. Boston: Beacon Press, 1970.
This is the one we couldn’t remember — the first is her autobio, the second her family history, and the third an early essay printed in an anthology (now out of print) on black women and feminism — an early statement of ideas picked up by almost all later Afram feminists!

SF
Russ, Joanna. The Female Man. New York: Bantam Books, 1975.

Elgin, Suzette Haden. Native Tongue. New York: Daw, 1984.
This is the linguist who did two boks (second is JUDAS ROSE) on what would happen if women created their own language. All white women in N. American unfortunately, but wonderful linguistic stuff.

Butler, Octavia E. Mind of My Mind. New York: Avon, 1977. —. Dawn. New York: Popular Library, 1987.
—. Adulthood Rites. New York: Popular Library, 1988.
—. Imago. New York: Popular Library, 1989.
—. Wild Seed. New York: Popular Library, 1980.

Tepper, Sherri S. The Gate to Women’s Country. 1988. New York: Bantam Books, 1989.

Piercy, Marge. Woman on the Edge of Time.

Ah paternity fraud! I love how feminists want men to care about the ills of women and they put out tons of ads that “only men can stop rape”, but as soon as the suffering is reversed and it is the woman causing pain to a man.,,the pain is easily dismissed in a blase manner. “It’s only 1-2%…so its no big deal”. All the while forgetting that 1-2% of men being cuckold is still thousands of men.

I wonder if they would feel the same way if men said “Well, its only 1-2% of women are raped every year…so its no big deal”

You’re soooo right, Brandon. Run along, now.

Ithiliana–unfortunately in Brandonworld, all women, feminist or not, are supposed to take care of the menfolk. Heaven forfend they do any heavy lifting.

@HellKell: Ya, men don’t do any “heavy lifting”. We aren’t the ones building homes or working on oil rigs so we can provide for our families.

Besides, you overly literal brick, “heavy lifting” in this instance meant organizing if paternity fraud is such an issue.

Jeeze Brandon! you leached off of your mother’s nutrients for 9 months and you want women to do MORE?! sheesh. As if bringing you into this world wasn’t enough!

Yes, but after that, he went his own way. Once he hit the delivery floor running he’s been his own self made man building oil rigs and his own house.

And he’s got the whole thing on tape.

So many threads. So much ridiculousness.

Brandon, let me preface this by saying that I don’t approve of paternity fraud. That said:

I would suggest mandatory paternity tests when children are born. Or at least have it be opt-out as opposed to opt-in. The tests are relatively cheap and could free up tons of time in the court system since they wouldn’t be wasting countless hours fighting the “who is the father” issue.

Your argument here is full of errors. My sister is a pediatrician who finished residency fairly recently. She completed her residency at a very large, state run facility that had a preponderance of patients on Medicare and Medicaid. She attended a lot of births. On occassion, she would be asked -usually by the parents/grandparents of the young man who was ostensibly the father- when the baby would get a paternity test. She would explain, patiently, that paternity tests are not a part of the battery of exams given to newborn infants and provide them with a referral to the social services people.

Paternity tests are not covered by the state or federal governments. They are not covered by insurance carriers. You can choose to view this as some grand, feminist conspiracy (and I’m not asserting that you are, Brandon) or failure in foresight. But the reason is very simple. Barring genetic diseases with symptoms that are manifesting at or shortly after the time of birth, paternity tests have absolutely nothing to do with the health of the child. Period.

The idea that it will save court costs/time in the long run is not much incentive because just as most couples don’t end up in family court over custody disputes, most couples don’t end up in family court over paternity disputes either. And the when courts need a definitive answer to paternity questions they usually decide it with… a paternity test. So we’ve come full circle. Brandon, the Maury Povich show is fiction. I hate to burst your bubble but the guests are coached and encouraged. The producers generally know the outcome from screening the participants before hand. It’s a circus.

As far as them being “relatively cheap” since their costs must be paid for out of pocket, it really depends on the pockets in question. The lowest costs are for at home kits that may cost around $30 to purchase but at total of $120 to complete. These types of tests also have a greater margin of error. Tests done in a lab cost in the range $400 to $600. Last year, 4,247,694 children were born in the U.S. If you believe that paternity tests should be mandatory, find a way to pay for them.

You have about $169,905,600 to raise.