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Showdown: #MenCallMeThings versus The Catalogue of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics

The most common “critique” of the #mencallmethings hashtag  that blew up on Twitter last week was that the women posting examples of misogynistic shit they got called online were making a big deal out of nothing. As the always-charming Ferdinand Bardamu so memorably put it:

It’s funny, then, that when MRAs find themselves described with less-than-flattering language they have a strange tendency to act like they’ve suddenly been struck with a case of the vapors. Witness the reaction of MRAs when someone calls them the “c-word.” No, not “cunt” – “creep.” As one outraged Men’s Rights Redditor recently put it, in a comment with 30+ net upvotes:

Creep shaming is probably one of the most insidious and anti-equality things you can do. The ability to label men as “creepy” is just one privilege that women enjoy, and a constant source of fear of ostracizing that all men must fear in our society.

When MRAs feel themselves being oppressed by such clearly man-hating language, they often refer to something called the Catalogue of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics, which, well, catalogues their language grievances in detail. According to the author of the  Catalogue,

Shaming tactics are emotional devices meant to play on a man’s insecurities and shut down debate.  They are meant to elicit sympathy for women and to demonize men who ask hard questions.  Most, if not all, shaming tactics are basically ad homimem attacks.

Such shaming tactics, the author of the Catalogue says, with no evident awareness of the irony, are often used by “histrionic …  female detractors who refuse to argue their points with logic” and the male “gynocentrists” who ally with them.

Here are some of the awful “shaming” remarks that get directed at MRAs, according to the Catalogue of Shaming Tactics:

 “Stop whining!”

 “Suck it up like a man!”

“You need to get over your anger at women.”

“You’re afraid of a strong woman!”

“You are so immature!”

“You are just bitter because you can’t get laid.”

“Are you gay?”

 “That’s a sexist stereotype!”

 “You need therapy.”

“You make me feel afraid.”

 “Weirdo!”

 “Loser!”

“You are so materialistic.”

 “No woman will marry you with that attitude.”

“You are insensitive to the plight of women.”

Did someone just use the word "creep?"

Is that last one even an insult? It’s a fairly accurate description of a lot of MRAs, who take a certain pride in being “insensitive to the plight of women.”

So now that we’ve seen the horrible abuse that MRAs have to put up with on a daily basis, let’s take a quick look at some of the things that women and feminists regularly get from their detractors, as posted to the #mencallmethings hashtag and sent to Sady Doyle, who originated the hashtag. (These are all taken from a great post she did in the aftermath of #mencallmethings’ big blowup.) I think you will find the comparison instructive.  Let’s start with the more straightforward slurs. (TRIGGER WARNING for, well, just about everything in the quotes that follow.)

Slut, cunt, bitch, whore, ugly, dyke, lesbo, unfuckable, crazy, delusional, liar, hysterical, autistic bitch child, feminazi,  ballbuster, humorless, heartless whore, man hater, misandrist, stupid little girl, shrieky hysterical moron, airhead, spoiled little princess, stupid bitch, stupid fucking cunt, stupid feminazi cunt, an ugly bitter little woman, cumm guzzling closet lesbian, a pseudo-intellectual Insane Oversensitive Humourless Female supremacist.

Now let’s move on to complete sentences:

 “You’re an ugly fucking cunt.”

“That sort of smirk is why God invented anal sex.”  

“you’re so ugly you look like you have downs syndrome, you’d be thankful to be raped.”

“hope you catch a sexually transmitted disease or vagina cancer, cuntwit.”

”Stick a dildo up your dry vagina.”

“the only time your mouth should be open is when i’m putting my d–k in it”

“Your just a gay cunt who deserves to be punished.”

“A firm backhand to her whore face would provide her with a much needed attitude adjustment.”  

“Fuck you bitch….ya need to get beat like ur pops use to do to u.”

“I hope you never have children, your daughters would be such sluts and end up murdered in a gutter by someone like me.”

 You’re “not worth the effort to murder.”  

“[The] only tragedy is that a bullet didn’t rip through ur brainstem after u were used 4 ur 1 & only purpose in this world.”

“what a long winded bitch. You certainly do need to be gagged.”

“You’re an annoying bitch with no friends.I’d love to run you over with my truck.”

“you stupid bitch, I should fuck the crazy right out of you.”

”i surely hope that one day you get raped.”

“[You] can’t be a female scientist, that phrase is an oxymoron,”

“it’s painfully obvious you’re a woman, get off the internet.”

“I will fuck your ass to death you filthy fucking whore. Your only worth on this planet is as a warm hole.”

“Do you need to file a hurt feelings report?”

As I noted before, despite my general unpopularity in the MRA world, I tend to get fewer of these things than, for example, most feminist bloggers with a similar degree of internet notoriety. But I get them. Here, for example, is the latest comment I’ve gotten from the guy who calls himself Nugganu, a sort of follow-up to a previous comment I quoted earlier in which he imagined me raped by ten black men:

He certainly does have a vivid imagination.

But, yeah, somehow it’s a little hard for me to feel a ton of sympathy for MRAs who so regularly work themselves into a lather over “shaming language” like “creep” and “loser” and “you are insensitive to the plight of women.”

 

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Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
13 years ago

@Cassandra: Then time for me to avoid defending someone who seems to have intentionally caused bad blood. 🙂

As much as I’m against all religions on principle, I’m not so ideologically driven that I can’t see that the followers of religion tend to be mostly OK people. Islamophobia is just another bigotry that I’m against.

hellkell
hellkell
13 years ago

Oh, darn, what ever shall I do? Hey, Joe, you’re more than welcome to pull “the other things are going on the world, can’t believe you’re going to concentrate on this” crap and expect everyone to bow down to the rightness that is you, but don’t be surprised if it doesn’t work too well. Be a pompous ass all you want.

felixBC
felixBC
13 years ago

This from feminists? The worlds foremost proponents of sadistic, whipping, caning, torture sex? Feminist sex seems to be intertwined with punishment. I guess when you’re dead on the inside, ya need something to remind yourself you’re actually alive.

This from the poster known as Slavey, wearing chains. Projection, thy name is nwo.

Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
13 years ago

@NWOslave: Feminism is just fine by me, because I don’t see life as some sort of cutthroat competition or zero-sum game. Women having equal rights doesn’t mean I lose any rights, it just means I might lose an unfair privilege that I didn’t earn in the first place. In fact, women achieving real equality means that I gain some benefit as well, because things like freedom and equality are cumulative. Anything that can be denied to a person because they are female can later be denied to others because they fail to meet some other qualification. If you oppose women being equal, you open the door for some races to be less equal, or for some religions to have more rights than others. More freedoms and equality for any group means more of it for everyone else too.

Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
13 years ago

@hellkell:

No, I don’t expect everyone to choose my priorities: that’s a privilege you claim for yourself. I only mentioned it as a concern, but I don’t make your claim of holding others in judgment based on my personal criteria. Also, I never insulted you, that was another privilege you claimed for yourself.

No Cuntry 4 Old Men!
No Cuntry 4 Old Men!
13 years ago

“Uhh… okay? What’s with the anti-virgin stuff?”

Snowy, nothing against virgins. I’m celibate by choice myself right now and loving it. These MRA virgins refer to themselves as INCELs, that means involuntarily celibate. They are frustrated and very, very angry that women are not attracted to them. They seek a type of Sexual Marxism, from each according to her ability, to each according to his need, as a resolution to the fact that they are unable to attract women on their own merit. They are of the opinion that the government or “society” should assign them a mate! They believe that is their “right”! That ties into their whole “societal contract” theory.

As far as “Islamophobia” – utter nonsense. I am critical of Islam as a religion and the Quran as an Islamic text because they are both problematic, especially wrt womens rights and religious freedom. Both need to be thoroughly revised, updated and feminized. I’m sure the MRA’s here will disagree with that, but my fellow Feminist commenters will agree.

Spearhafoc
13 years ago

This from feminists? The worlds foremost proponents of sadistic, whipping, caning, torture sex? Feminist sex seems to be intertwined with punishment. I guess when you’re dead on the inside, ya need something to remind yourself you’re actually alive.

A proper BDSM relationship involves consent, and it’s not the be-all-and-end-all of feminist sex. A few radical feminists are dead-set against it, considering it nothing more than reenacting and reinforcing already existing patriarchal roles.

Those on the pro side see it as a healthy catharsis; a way of dealing with gender roles and power-relations in a safe and emotionally fulfilling way. They don’t consider it to be the only kind of sex people should have, but it is acceptable as long as both parties enthusiastically agree to everything involved.

It’s certainly not my kink – not that I have any experience with sex at all, but it’s not what I fantasize about (sorry for the TMI) – but I don’t feel it’s my place to judge anyone for acting out fantasies in a safe way with those they trust.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

Please note that everyone who disagrees with what NC4OM has to say about Islam and how to modernise it is an MRA.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

“Those on the pro side see it as a healthy catharsis; a way of dealing with gender roles and power-relations in a safe and emotionally fulfilling way. They don’t consider it to be the only kind of sex people should have, but it is acceptable as long as both parties enthusiastically agree to everything involved.”

Just a little side note here – not ass BSDM is M/f D/s. I know that some radfems, and most sexist dudes, make that assumption, but let’s not buy into it.

I dunno what you’d call my desire to tie men to the bed, but it’s certainly not an attempt to deal with gender roles.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

All, not ass. Now that was a funny typo, in context.

Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
13 years ago

LOL@Cassandra!!!!!!

jumbofisch
13 years ago

Both need to be thoroughly revised, updated and feminized. I’m sure the MRA’s here will disagree with that, but my fellow Feminist commenters will agree.

You are such a stealth troll XDXDXD

felixBC
felixBC
13 years ago

Improbable Joe: “about 0.01% of what’s going on in the real world”. Joe, I like reading most of your comments, but seriously, could you take a step back and stop defining what the “real world” and “normal” are? Your experience is valuable, but it’s not definitive.

I think what I’m trying to say is, check your privilege.

No Cuntry 4 Old Men!
No Cuntry 4 Old Men!
13 years ago

Call me an MRAphobe too, then. Both MRA and Islam are problematic as ideologies. On their own, individual MRAs and Muslims may be wonderful people, but if they are influenced by the dangerous ideologies inherent within either, then they are sadly being negatively influenced.

MRA and Islam are bedfellows for a reason (pun intended).

Both need to be revised, updated, and feminized. Maybe even tied to that bed they’re sharing and given a good spanking.

😉

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

I know some Muslims who are wonderful people. MRAs, though? Nope, not even one.

Also, ew.

jumbofisch
13 years ago

Both need to be revised, updated, and feminized. Maybe even tied to that bed they’re sharing and given a good spanking.

………..what?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

How does one “revise” a person, exactly?

Snowy
Snowy
13 years ago

Snowy, nothing against virgins. I’m celibate by choice myself right now and loving it. These MRA virgins refer to themselves as INCELs, that means involuntarily celibate. They are frustrated and very, very angry that women are not attracted to them.

Maybe you could have referred to INCELs then, instead of virgins? I agree with you that they’re creepy, but I don’t think that’s any reason to insult all virgins anymore than it would be reason to insult all men.

They seek a type of Sexual Marxism, from each according to her ability, to each according to his need, as a resolution to the fact that they are unable to attract women on their own merit.

Are you quoting from The Handmaids Tale now? Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good book. But I’m pretty sure they haven’t read it.

They are of the opinion that the government or “society” should assign them a mate! They believe that is their “right”! That ties into their whole “societal contract” theory.

So, are you Societal Contract/HINDU? I’ve been wondering.

Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
13 years ago

Before this unfortunate business with hellkell goes any further, let me clarify my position… because I kind of like this community of people, and would like to be a part of it:

I’m an atheist. I’ve been one all my life, since I was a scared little kid in my Superman pajamas clutching a glow-in-the-dark sword, too afraid of the dark to make it to the bathroom without a nightlight AND a weapon. My folks explained to me that stories with monsters and talking animals and magic were all imaginary, and I didn’t have to be afraid of them. When I stumbled across the illustrated Bible stories, I treated them the same way, as just made-up fables like Santa Claus and Thor and Hercules and all the rest. I assumed adults did as well.

It was all good until my family moved from NYC to Mayberry, and I found out that adults completely bought into religion as well. It was horrifying, and really shook my foundations pretty hard. It got worse a few years later, when I was in high school and my cross country coach invited the team to his church after we had a winning season. My mother freaked out when she heard that it wasn’t a Catholic church, and even more when I told her that I wasn’t actually a Catholic or a member of any religion.

It was stressful for awhile, culminating in a Thanksgiving where I was slow to the table, the family was going to pray over the food, and when my sister-in-law asked for them to wait for me my mother decided to loudly announce that I was too “stupid” to be religious. It led to a huge fight, lots of tears, and my mother finally accepting my atheism. Part of the fight was that I told her that if I could keep my mouth shut every time she mentioned “God” or “Jesus” and didn’t throw my atheism in her face, then the least she could do is show me the same respect.

We’re all good now. And when she says “God bless you” when I sneeze, I don’t correct her and say that there is no God. She says “thank God” and “thank you Jesus” and other religious things in my presence, and I don’t stop the conversation to have a theological debate with her even though I know I would “win”. She doesn’t insist that I take part, and she ignores my rather frequent blasphemy. She’s my mom, she loves me and I love her. We each think the other is wrong, but neither thinks the other is evil or bad.

So when I suggest that it is possible and even occasionally preferable not to nitpick language or phrases or whatever, I’m not trying to undermine anyone. All I’m saying is that if it is possible that we’re on the same side, and not opposing one another, then it should also be possible not to insist on beating one another down over relatively small differences. I think pretty much most people are pretty much OK people… and I hope people see me the same way. I hope that my relatively tiny missteps don’t need to be blown up into giant disagreements. I’ll try to respond to others in the same way… which means that I’m sorry hellkell, that I’ve probably been more aggressive with you than strictly necessary, out of defensiveness that has not much to do with you. That’s my bad, and I take all the blame for it.

If I’m dead-wrong, that’s one thing. If you think I’m very slightly wrong and you feel driven to argue, aren’t you proving my point? 🙂

Snowy
Snowy
13 years ago

Both need to be revised, updated, and feminized. Maybe even tied to that bed they’re sharing and given a good spanking.

Wow. What the hell. Now I know you’re just fucking with us.

hellkell
hellkell
13 years ago

Snowy, yes that’s Societal Contract/HINDU as NC4OM.

Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
13 years ago

@felixBC: I’ve checked my privilege from the start. It isn’t all my fault if people didn’t see that. I’ve said over and over that my perspective doesn’t particularly matter, and absolutely doesn’t matter in situations where I feel a preference and others feel an imperative. Go look again.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
13 years ago

Thinks that doing something sexual to someone against their will is going to win that person over to your point of view?

I would live to revise my original question. MRA troll or stupid?

jumbofisch
13 years ago

I’m not trying to undermine anyone. All I’m saying is that if it is possible that we’re on the same side, and not opposing one another, then it should also be possible not to insist on beating one another down over relatively small differences.

You call this person on our side??:

Both need to be revised, updated, and feminized. Maybe even tied to that bed they’re sharing and given a good spanking.

felixBC
felixBC
13 years ago

You know, given that we’re not so thrilled to hear MRAs say that feminism needs to be completely “revised”, and that various terrorists think the same about western culture, I’m just not into jumping on the bandwagon of blithely announcing that Islam needs to be revised and updated.

Also, NC4OM, maybe go check out the work of several hundreds of years of Muslim writing and thought and culture before deciding in all your wisdom that it’s all shite, sorry, a “problematic” and “dangerous” ideology.

Here’s a good place to start: Shirin Neshat
http://www.cmoa.org/international/html/art/neshat.htm

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