The most common “critique” of the #mencallmethings hashtag that blew up on Twitter last week was that the women posting examples of misogynistic shit they got called online were making a big deal out of nothing. As the always-charming Ferdinand Bardamu so memorably put it:
It’s funny, then, that when MRAs find themselves described with less-than-flattering language they have a strange tendency to act like they’ve suddenly been struck with a case of the vapors. Witness the reaction of MRAs when someone calls them the “c-word.” No, not “cunt” – “creep.” As one outraged Men’s Rights Redditor recently put it, in a comment with 30+ net upvotes:
Creep shaming is probably one of the most insidious and anti-equality things you can do. The ability to label men as “creepy” is just one privilege that women enjoy, and a constant source of fear of ostracizing that all men must fear in our society.
When MRAs feel themselves being oppressed by such clearly man-hating language, they often refer to something called the Catalogue of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics, which, well, catalogues their language grievances in detail. According to the author of the Catalogue,
Shaming tactics are emotional devices meant to play on a man’s insecurities and shut down debate. They are meant to elicit sympathy for women and to demonize men who ask hard questions. Most, if not all, shaming tactics are basically ad homimem attacks.
Such shaming tactics, the author of the Catalogue says, with no evident awareness of the irony, are often used by “histrionic … female detractors who refuse to argue their points with logic” and the male “gynocentrists” who ally with them.
Here are some of the awful “shaming” remarks that get directed at MRAs, according to the Catalogue of Shaming Tactics:
“Stop whining!”
“Suck it up like a man!”
“You need to get over your anger at women.”
“You’re afraid of a strong woman!”
“You are so immature!”
“You are just bitter because you can’t get laid.”
“Are you gay?”
“That’s a sexist stereotype!”
“You need therapy.”
“You make me feel afraid.”
“Weirdo!”
“Loser!”
“You are so materialistic.”
“No woman will marry you with that attitude.”
“You are insensitive to the plight of women.”
Is that last one even an insult? It’s a fairly accurate description of a lot of MRAs, who take a certain pride in being “insensitive to the plight of women.”
So now that we’ve seen the horrible abuse that MRAs have to put up with on a daily basis, let’s take a quick look at some of the things that women and feminists regularly get from their detractors, as posted to the #mencallmethings hashtag and sent to Sady Doyle, who originated the hashtag. (These are all taken from a great post she did in the aftermath of #mencallmethings’ big blowup.) I think you will find the comparison instructive. Let’s start with the more straightforward slurs. (TRIGGER WARNING for, well, just about everything in the quotes that follow.)
Slut, cunt, bitch, whore, ugly, dyke, lesbo, unfuckable, crazy, delusional, liar, hysterical, autistic bitch child, feminazi, ballbuster, humorless, heartless whore, man hater, misandrist, stupid little girl, shrieky hysterical moron, airhead, spoiled little princess, stupid bitch, stupid fucking cunt, stupid feminazi cunt, an ugly bitter little woman, cumm guzzling closet lesbian, a pseudo-intellectual Insane Oversensitive Humourless Female supremacist.
Now let’s move on to complete sentences:
“You’re an ugly fucking cunt.”
“That sort of smirk is why God invented anal sex.”
“you’re so ugly you look like you have downs syndrome, you’d be thankful to be raped.”
“hope you catch a sexually transmitted disease or vagina cancer, cuntwit.”
”Stick a dildo up your dry vagina.”
“the only time your mouth should be open is when i’m putting my d–k in it”
“Your just a gay cunt who deserves to be punished.”
“A firm backhand to her whore face would provide her with a much needed attitude adjustment.”
“Fuck you bitch….ya need to get beat like ur pops use to do to u.”
“I hope you never have children, your daughters would be such sluts and end up murdered in a gutter by someone like me.”
You’re “not worth the effort to murder.”
“[The] only tragedy is that a bullet didn’t rip through ur brainstem after u were used 4 ur 1 & only purpose in this world.”
“what a long winded bitch. You certainly do need to be gagged.”
“You’re an annoying bitch with no friends.I’d love to run you over with my truck.”
“you stupid bitch, I should fuck the crazy right out of you.”
”i surely hope that one day you get raped.”
“[You] can’t be a female scientist, that phrase is an oxymoron,”
“it’s painfully obvious you’re a woman, get off the internet.”
“I will fuck your ass to death you filthy fucking whore. Your only worth on this planet is as a warm hole.”
“Do you need to file a hurt feelings report?”
As I noted before, despite my general unpopularity in the MRA world, I tend to get fewer of these things than, for example, most feminist bloggers with a similar degree of internet notoriety. But I get them. Here, for example, is the latest comment I’ve gotten from the guy who calls himself Nugganu, a sort of follow-up to a previous comment I quoted earlier in which he imagined me raped by ten black men:
He certainly does have a vivid imagination.
But, yeah, somehow it’s a little hard for me to feel a ton of sympathy for MRAs who so regularly work themselves into a lather over “shaming language” like “creep” and “loser” and “you are insensitive to the plight of women.”
It’s misrepresenting or outright making up things a person (In this case, a feminist) has said, and then opposing that misrepresentation and pretending it’s what they actually said.
A stawfeminist is the caricature of feminism that you have in your head that you think forbids you to like women with big boobs. It’s not real.
NC4OM
Me
NC4OM
And with a whooshing noise, the goalposts vanished into the distance.
But i was told by a self proclaimed feminist i was sexist. did not know me or ever meet me before or at least i dont believe so . during a conversation with guy friends i was ask my preference i simply answered honestly i like big boobs. you find guys that like ass or lip guys or what have you . she went on to say i was sexist a misogynist and objectifying women.
Amazingly enough, feminists are actual individual people and they don’t all agree with each other. There’s also the possibility that she was calling you sexist for reasons beyond the fact that you like big boobs.
Well, seeing as you’re human, you probably are a sexist. It’s pretty omnipresent amongst earth cultures, and nobody has entirely stopped. The question is whether you’re moreso than normal, and not having heard what, *specifically*, you said, it’s entirely possible that you did in fact reduce women to their sexual attributes in saying this. Which is in fact objectification, see above.
I disagree with her statement. It was not sexist for you to say that you have a preference for women with large breasts.
well i was ask what do you like on girls my exact answer “oh man boobs the bigger the better” after that she just started before that we where talking about friend and how he was doing nothing about female or anything else .
OK, yeah, that actually does sound sort of sexist, and also very juvenile. You may want to choose your words more carefully, since the ones you used make it sound like you’re looking for a doll whose boobs you can inflate to order using some sort of pump.
She wasn’t calling you sexist because you like big boobs, it was about the specific words that you used.
after that she just started
Just started what?
Her engine?
If you couldn’t think to list any attributes of a women that you might like besides her boobs, I can see how she might come to the conclusion that you were objectifying women, and being… actually that isn’t even more sexist than your parent culture, but it’s still harmfully sexist.
@Dracula her rant as far as i saw it and when i made my comment it was not with a straight face or speaking seriously it was in a joking manner.
Reversing the genders here…
“What do you like on men?”
“Oh man, cocks, the bigger the better”
Yeah, no way that conversation could create awkwardness or upset feelings.
That doesn’t mean that, in terms of physical attributes, having a preference is sexist, mind you. But if the only positive thing you think a woman can offer is her sexual attributes, (Or if you lead others to this conclusion), there is a reason you are being called a sexist. That was, at best, an unideal way to state a simple preference.
Actually saying it in a joking manner would probably come across as “look at me, being sexist in an attempt to bond with the other guys”. It might well come across as if you were trying to be “jokingly” sexist just to annoy her.
@CassandraSays again after i said better she went off i dont know her again it came out not in a serious manner but whatever @Rutee to please someone i dont know i must say oh she has to be a nice person and so on and so on if you could honestly break down all the things you hope to find in someone with a conversation that seem clear feature not personality i answered dead on .
Well, if you’re OK with women thinking that you’re sexist then feel free to carry on talking that way. But again, the fact that you like big boobs is not the issue.
Okay, so it seems likely to me that what this woman meant was that your remark, in context, was sexist and insensitive. Perhaps she felt you weren’t taking her seriously. That hardly adds up to her saying “Liking big breasts makes you sexist.”
@CassandraSays if i said what do you like in guys or on guys is there a difference .to me it dose in i take for personality on i take for features .
Dude, how many times do we have to say “it’s not what you like, it’s how you expressed what you like” before you’re going to get it? This is not a difficult distinction to grasp.
heero, is there anything else you prefer in a woman apart from large breasts?
@Dracula i did not know the lady to take her serious or not .how i joke is my business its not her place to tell me what is. she dose not know me for that BS to work she should at least catch the how it was put out there and if that is how are male bonding is done who’s place is it to tell me that is wrong ?
If you think that male bonding is more important than whether or not what you say comes across as sexist or objectifying then yes, you’re being sexist, and she was right to call you on it.
I’d probably have said something like “a high IQ, a ready wit, a wide range of interests… oh, and enormous breasts”.