The most common “critique” of the #mencallmethings hashtag that blew up on Twitter last week was that the women posting examples of misogynistic shit they got called online were making a big deal out of nothing. As the always-charming Ferdinand Bardamu so memorably put it:
It’s funny, then, that when MRAs find themselves described with less-than-flattering language they have a strange tendency to act like they’ve suddenly been struck with a case of the vapors. Witness the reaction of MRAs when someone calls them the “c-word.” No, not “cunt” – “creep.” As one outraged Men’s Rights Redditor recently put it, in a comment with 30+ net upvotes:
Creep shaming is probably one of the most insidious and anti-equality things you can do. The ability to label men as “creepy” is just one privilege that women enjoy, and a constant source of fear of ostracizing that all men must fear in our society.
When MRAs feel themselves being oppressed by such clearly man-hating language, they often refer to something called the Catalogue of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics, which, well, catalogues their language grievances in detail. According to the author of the Catalogue,
Shaming tactics are emotional devices meant to play on a man’s insecurities and shut down debate. They are meant to elicit sympathy for women and to demonize men who ask hard questions. Most, if not all, shaming tactics are basically ad homimem attacks.
Such shaming tactics, the author of the Catalogue says, with no evident awareness of the irony, are often used by “histrionic … female detractors who refuse to argue their points with logic” and the male “gynocentrists” who ally with them.
Here are some of the awful “shaming” remarks that get directed at MRAs, according to the Catalogue of Shaming Tactics:
“Stop whining!”
“Suck it up like a man!”
“You need to get over your anger at women.”
“You’re afraid of a strong woman!”
“You are so immature!”
“You are just bitter because you can’t get laid.”
“Are you gay?”
“That’s a sexist stereotype!”
“You need therapy.”
“You make me feel afraid.”
“Weirdo!”
“Loser!”
“You are so materialistic.”
“No woman will marry you with that attitude.”
“You are insensitive to the plight of women.”
Is that last one even an insult? It’s a fairly accurate description of a lot of MRAs, who take a certain pride in being “insensitive to the plight of women.”
So now that we’ve seen the horrible abuse that MRAs have to put up with on a daily basis, let’s take a quick look at some of the things that women and feminists regularly get from their detractors, as posted to the #mencallmethings hashtag and sent to Sady Doyle, who originated the hashtag. (These are all taken from a great post she did in the aftermath of #mencallmethings’ big blowup.) I think you will find the comparison instructive. Let’s start with the more straightforward slurs. (TRIGGER WARNING for, well, just about everything in the quotes that follow.)
Slut, cunt, bitch, whore, ugly, dyke, lesbo, unfuckable, crazy, delusional, liar, hysterical, autistic bitch child, feminazi, ballbuster, humorless, heartless whore, man hater, misandrist, stupid little girl, shrieky hysterical moron, airhead, spoiled little princess, stupid bitch, stupid fucking cunt, stupid feminazi cunt, an ugly bitter little woman, cumm guzzling closet lesbian, a pseudo-intellectual Insane Oversensitive Humourless Female supremacist.
Now let’s move on to complete sentences:
“You’re an ugly fucking cunt.”
“That sort of smirk is why God invented anal sex.”
“you’re so ugly you look like you have downs syndrome, you’d be thankful to be raped.”
“hope you catch a sexually transmitted disease or vagina cancer, cuntwit.”
”Stick a dildo up your dry vagina.”
“the only time your mouth should be open is when i’m putting my d–k in it”
“Your just a gay cunt who deserves to be punished.”
“A firm backhand to her whore face would provide her with a much needed attitude adjustment.”
“Fuck you bitch….ya need to get beat like ur pops use to do to u.”
“I hope you never have children, your daughters would be such sluts and end up murdered in a gutter by someone like me.”
You’re “not worth the effort to murder.”
“[The] only tragedy is that a bullet didn’t rip through ur brainstem after u were used 4 ur 1 & only purpose in this world.”
“what a long winded bitch. You certainly do need to be gagged.”
“You’re an annoying bitch with no friends.I’d love to run you over with my truck.”
“you stupid bitch, I should fuck the crazy right out of you.”
”i surely hope that one day you get raped.”
“[You] can’t be a female scientist, that phrase is an oxymoron,”
“it’s painfully obvious you’re a woman, get off the internet.”
“I will fuck your ass to death you filthy fucking whore. Your only worth on this planet is as a warm hole.”
“Do you need to file a hurt feelings report?”
As I noted before, despite my general unpopularity in the MRA world, I tend to get fewer of these things than, for example, most feminist bloggers with a similar degree of internet notoriety. But I get them. Here, for example, is the latest comment I’ve gotten from the guy who calls himself Nugganu, a sort of follow-up to a previous comment I quoted earlier in which he imagined me raped by ten black men:
He certainly does have a vivid imagination.
But, yeah, somehow it’s a little hard for me to feel a ton of sympathy for MRAs who so regularly work themselves into a lather over “shaming language” like “creep” and “loser” and “you are insensitive to the plight of women.”
Improbable Joe: Is the fact that NC4OM called some hypothetical person a “virgin” in a semi-negative way really an important point that needs to be analyzed in great detail for the rest of the night?
Maybe. It’s problematic. I, for one, don’t think someone’s sexual status is a big deal. I happen, as a rule, to not make references to what I think the possible success (present or past) a person has had. I may speculate as to the likelihood they can have long term relationships based on the evident personality, but even that is more a case of “reasonable people won’t like that sort of treatment” than anything else.
Because the world has 7 billion people, and in that number (or even the 300 million in the US) there is a wealth of variation.
So to say, “this person never got laid” seems an insult which isn’t useful, nor in keeping with being any sort of fair person.
Seriously, if any of you think “Keep fuckin’ that chicken, Joe” is an appropriate response to ANYTHING, there’s something seriously wrong with you.
Not how I’d put it (and to be honest, I picture something different, not bestiality; perhaps even more perverse, involving a stuffed; and roasted, bird, but that’s probably a really odd Penthouse letter when I was young), but the sentiment (that you are beating a dead horse) seems not off the mark.
I can say that, for all our various differences in outlook and method, hellkell isn’t an MRA. I don’t think you are. I do think, all in all, that slapping someone who disagrees with you with that label, isn’t a sign of what I think of as good judgement.
NWO, the no ursury thing is not amongst the Five Pillars of Islam by the way, but I agree its a good thing.
Tagfail and ninja’d by Ozy. Go me!
…Can we add “no usury is a pillar of Islam” to the Book of Learning?
Cassandra: re NC4OM: when I’m feeling charitable I tend to think a bit less than clued in. When not, I tend to think bigotted jerk.
NC4OM: I am critical of Islam as a religion and the Quran as an Islamic text because they are both problematic, especially wrt womens rights and religious freedom. Both need to be thoroughly revised, updated and feminized. I’m sure the MRA’s here will disagree with that, but my fellow Feminist commenters will agree.
Then you may (this will cut me to the very quick, I assure you), call me a non-feminist.
This is because this, but if they are influenced by the dangerous ideologies inherent within either, then they are sadly being negatively influenced. is a tautology. Insert any philosophical belief and the statement has as much content, ergo is is without meaning.
Ah… I see my wondering about who NC4OM is has been resolved. That explains a lot. Not only is it out old friend Hindu, but the constant change of names reinforces my lack of belief that she is arguing in good faith.
Ozy, “Catholicism doesn’t have female clergy. Does Catholicism need to be feminized too?”
— Most definitely. Don’t you think so? If not, why not?
Percunium, I already cleared up the “virgin” issue. Its on the previous page. From now I’m going to be politically correct and use the term INCEL.
The no usury thing actually is part of law in Saudi, or at least it was when I lived there in the 80s. Can we add that to the growing list of “ways in which the whole of Islam is not the most extreme version possible as represented by one rather messed up country” book?
I think NC4OM needs her own book, actually. It can start with “yoga classes intended to tone your ass are a religious practise”.
You don’t know a whole hell of a lot, do you?
Anyway, what’s the difference between the bloodthirsty parts of the Gita and the bloodthirsty parts of the Qu’ran? I mean, apart from the fact that you’re willing to look beyond the first.
You mean like when I pointed out your utter lack of knowledge of Islam in Southeast Asia, where it has primarily spread through traders, after you asserted that Islam is only capable of spreading through violence? Your reaction was to pretend that they, too, were converted by the sword despite this being demonstrably not hte case. I’m not wasting my time treating a moron like you to any serious conversation.
Ozy, maybe “no usury” can be made the 6th pillar in the revised version of Islam. Or else it can replace Hajj as the 5th.
Cassandra, “This is because this, but if they are influenced by the dangerous ideologies inherent within either, then they are sadly being negatively influenced. is a tautology. Insert any philosophical belief and the statement has as much content, ergo is is without meaning.”
Well, that’s assuming any and all philosophical beliefs have inherent dangerous ideologies within them.
How about this – would you say that any philosophical belief system should be revised to keep pace with progress made in human rights?
Can you not even keep who said what straight? This does not speak well of your capacity for intellectual rigor.
Protip – Pecunium and I are not the same person.
Yoga was intended as something spiritual though. Obviously that’s not the case with most classes available at the gym for ass-toning purposes though lol
Intended originally, absolutely? In its current form in the US and Europe? Not so much.
But she thinks it is because a. she’s kind of dumb and b. Hinduism is uniquely well suited to assimilation, and assimilation is good, because woo.
There’s a difference between calling someone on something they said and kicking them out of the proverbial clubhouse. Now, I’m not sure I actually agree with NC4OM on a lot of issues, but if someone else commenting here who I do agree with most of the left a comment that I found objectionable, I would say something. I wouldn’t say they couldn’t be a feminist anymore, I would just voice my objection to whatever specific problem there was.
I hope anybody here would check me if I said something stupid. I have tons of privilege and it’s almost inevitable I’ll speak from that position at some point. I’d rather hear that I was an idiot and correct myself.
NWO: Even Dave has verified I don’t have a desire to rape children. And I’ve already given you a link to feminists who openly promote pedophelia. We know who the promoters are.
Really?
Rape is sex with someone who doesn’t consent. Children can’t consent. You have said children are perfectly fine to have sex with if, “they are flaunting their sexuality,” (which, conveniently, you get to define).
By your own words, you think raping children is just peachy.
Cassandra: I am not sure, given her comments, in her various incarnations, that NC4OM is actually better than NWO. An evil person is evil, even if the manifestations are different.
“Say you’re on a dark road all alone with a flat tire and no cell phone. And a guy like me pulls over about 50 yards away and starts walking towards you. You’ll probably start to feel pretty darned scared. Of course when I finally get there and offer to give you a hand, maybe you’ll realize you’ve been indoctrinated to fear and hate men. What you should’ve been thinking was, “Thank God a man is here to help!”
Unless you were Bill Cosby’s son. He was in that spot and a man stopped, and shot him to death.
Well, that’s assuming any and all philosophical beliefs have inherent dangerous ideologies within them.
Well except for Ami-ism xD
Shouldn’t your name be “No old cuntry 4 men”? xD
@ Pecunium – I never saw the earlier iterations of this particular troll. Did she say something awful?
“Say you’re on a dark road all alone with a flat tire and no cell phone. And a guy like me pulls over about 50 yards away and starts walking towards you. You’ll probably start to feel pretty darned scared. Of course when I finally get there and offer to give you a hand, maybe you’ll realize you’ve been indoctrinated to fear and hate men. What you should’ve been thinking was, “Thank God a man is here to help!”
I would? xD
http://ami-rants.blogspot.com/2011/05/justice-avengers-of-cat-doom-ami-trish.html
http://ami-rants.blogspot.com/2011/07/ami-trish-and-zhinxy-snarkle-rape.html
Besides, even if ppl ARE scared… unless they pull a Megatron on you, so what? o_O
Also how is that hatred of men? xD Or even fear…
if nebody approached me I’d be worried… and on a dark road all alone, 50 yards away ppl know you’re male? xD
is NWO asking for his “right” to have sex with 14 year olds again? -_- Or is it 12 year olds now…
I should ask him
NWO, what’s the lowest legal age you think you should be allowed to have sex with a child? o:
NC4OM :How about this – would you say that any philosophical belief system should be revised to keep pace with progress made in human rights?
No.
So long as the people who are choosing to follow them are choosing to do it.
Telling people (or forcing them) to adhere to guidelines you like, is immoral. It treats them as means to your ends, not as agents who are ends in, and of, themselves.
Cassandra: Protip – Pecunium and I are not the same person.M Not even if we managed to be really (really) close in space and time. XD (much fun as that might be. XD XD)
Cassandra: @ Pecunium – I never saw the earlier iterations of this particular troll. Did she say something awful?
Yes (for all that I think Troll isn’t the right word. I don’t think she is trying to make a furor. I think she really believes the stuff she says).
It’s depressing to think that she might be totally sincere, but I suspect that you’re right about that.