Well, that was … instructive. The Twitter hashtag extravaganza that is #mencallmethings is still going strong. But I think at this point it’s safe to say that it has basically served it’s purpose: to highlight the obnoxious, obscene, often threatening misogynist shit that women who express their opinions about almost anything on the internet get in their inboxes or in comments online on a regular basis. Women with feminist blogs who actually call out this kind of misogyny get this sort of abuse basically every day.
Sady Doyle of Tiger Beatdown, who started up this hashtag campaign, explained in an eloquent and angry blog post why she did it: to point out how absolutely routine this sort of shit is. When she started her blog, she really hadn’t anticipated the sheer volume of vicious shit she’d get:
I got targeted. With threats, with insults, with smear campaigns, with attempts to threaten my employment or credibility or just general ability to get through the day with a healthy attitude and a minimal amount of insult.
The intent of all this abuse is simple: to intimidate. When someone says to a woman online “I hope you get raped with a chainsaw,” the point is to get her to shut up. The person who posts this sort of violent shit, Doyle notes,
hopes that the next time you sit down to write, you’ll remember that yikesy chainsaw-rape thing and think, “you know? Maybe this isn’t such a great idea. Maybe I don’t need to say this. Maybe I’ll piss someone off, and maybe it will be more than I can handle, and you know, maybe my thoughts on this topic just ARE NOT IMPORTANT ENOUGH for me to risk the headache/fear/irritation/distress/panic attack I know I will get.”
And then, when you say that aloud, they call you a whiny little girl who can’t handle the Internet. Because, of COURSE multiple chainsaw-rape comments aren’t a big deal! They’re just words! Sticks and stones! …
To you, my friends, I say: Fuck that noise. All of this matters. A hostile work environment matters. Being afraid of your own in-box matters. Deleting your blog because that’s the only way for you to have a normal, non-hate-filled life matters. “Accepting” that continual, virulent, hateful misogynist abuse is a pre-condition for being a lady who talks about thing, or for challenging sexism in any way, no matter who you are: That matters. And if you think we’re fragile, well. LET US COUNT THE WAYS we have hacked it, under conditions your pampered manly self just cannot imagine. LET US DEMONSTRATE FOR YOU the shit we wade through, every day, in order to talk about whether or not we liked that one “Community” episode or Lady GaGa album.
Naturally, critics of the whole hashtag campaign have done their best to minimize and dismiss this sort of routine harassment in exactly the ways that Doyle predicted they would.
The charming Ferdinand Bardamu of In Mala Fide responded to #mencallmethings with a bunch of obnoxious comments that conveniently proved basically every point Sady Doyle was trying to make with the hashtag in the first place. He started off with this bit of rapier wit:
He followed this up with a clumsy fat joke:
He continued on in this vein for awhile, so proud of his insightful critiques that he made a blog post about it.
Encouraged by Bardamu’s example, blogger PMAFT (Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Technology) announced a #MenCallMeThings Trolling Contest. The highlight of his own contributions to this contest:
Over on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit, c0mputar offered slightly more coherent, if equally misguided, response.
The reality is that most of the “misogyny” they face is just criticism to their feminist viewpoints. I see this a lot when I confront feminists arguments, present my arguments, and get called a misogynist, amongst other things characterized by misandry. It happens on both sides …
Really now? Here are some actual examples of comments posted on #mencallmethings (taken from a comment from Shaenon in the discussion here).
here’s some to start: ‘I’ll rape your mum, faggot fuck’ “I’ll come to your house and kill you”
#mencallmethings, impersonate me on FB, & make disgusting sexual comments, post my name & # when I helped organize Slutwalk
cunt, whore, ugly, disgusting, cold, feminazi, shut the fuck up bitch, manipulative, crazy, playing the victim, sociopath
Bitch, whore, being sensitive, little girl, dumb, subject of jokes involving physical and sexual assault.
Any variation on fat and/or ugly at this point just makes me yawn.
I’ve had so many emails and messages telling me I deserve a beating, I don’t even keep track any longer.
“13? Judging by the size of your titties, I’d of thought you were 18.”
(censored version) If you keep talking the way you do, you deserved to get raped.
My #mencallmethings moment – receiving an email consisting of 1600 lines plus of the same insult over and over. My crime? Being fat.
I’ve had so many guys tell me how good I must be in bed because I’m fat and therefor will do anyone
I usually get ‘sweetheart’ just before they dismiss my argument as being ‘stupid’. No counter argument.
Will not repeat the violence that’s been directed at me but this one made me laugh “Blubbering self-important herd animal.”
apparently I’m a lesbian… I was unaware until #mencallmethings.
I’M ON ANTI-DEPRESSANTS AND I CANT EVEN JERK OFF CORRECTLY NOW & ITS BECAUSE OF WOMEN SO FUCK ALL YOU INFERIOR COWS
“You should have your tongue ripped out.”
I get sent one rape threat a month on average.
I was once told “get back in the kitchen you ugly bitch” for posting on a Linux board (can’t remember which one now)
Have you ever wanted someone to tell you that your genetalia should be stapled shut with bugs inside, start a blog
How about being choked to death during a forced blowjob? Start a feminist blog.
Not worth the effort to murder: the most recent example of what I had to delete off the blog when #mencallmethings
C0mputar, in his Reddit post, went on to offer another argument that seems to be a favorite of those trying to trivialize the abuse catalogued by the contributors to #mencallmethings:
In the end, veterans of the internet know there is no protected demographic. Everyone gets shit on, but if you make a point of belonging with a group, you get shit on even more, and more so the smaller you are. You know who gets shit on more than feminists? MRAs.
Really? Some MRA types on Twitter tried to get a rival hashtag going: #womencallmethings. Needless to say, they didn’t have much to work with.
One Man Boobz non-fan — whom I banned for his repeated comments about anal rape — tried to post a sarcastic little comment here last night dismissing #mencallmethings on similar grounds. Here’s a screenshot from my wordpress account, with his identifying data erased:
Let’s just, for contrast, take a look at the previous comment he tried to post here:
Another day, another “hope you get raped” comment.
Ironically, though I’m pretty thoroughly disliked across the manosphere, I actually get a lot less of this sort of abuse than most reasonably well-known feminist bloggers who happen to be non-dudes. Oh, sure, I get called a “traitor” and a “mangina,” and once in a while someone points out that I’m, you know, fat, but when it comes to the really nasty shit, the abusive commenters and emailers seem to much prefer going after women. This may be because they are misogynistic assholes. That’s just a theory, though.
Hmm. I’ve never owned a shotgun and I’ve heard plenty of good things and bad things and neutral things. And my auntie loves hers 😉 I’ll defer to you.
Also, I have seen a trebuchet used but didn’t get to touch it! i want one now ;). I’m planning to take up some sort of sword art soon, but haven’t chosen.
Crossbows are much more effective in the event of a non-nice zombie outbreak.
“It was more the fact that he taught me that it was OK to defend myself, and that I had a right to do so physically if my space was being invaded. ”
Oh yes, agreed 100%. I was always taught that I could defend myself and others physically against anyone I needed to. My parents even sent a letter to the school saying I was not to be physically punished (not that I ever got into trouble anyway) and told me that if any of the staff ever tried to lay a hand on me, I should kick them and run.
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth – But I feel so much more DIANA! with my bows and arrows! 😉 Confidence and feeling like an invicible goddess are also important when surrounded by zombies! 😉
Quackers: Self-defense training is one of those things that needs even more practice than weapons. Most training fails to deal with the non-training environment, and so the practitioner isn’t mentally prepared when the fight starts.
Making mistakes in that circumstance becomes even more problematic because of, “the gambit problem”. If one has a “failsafe” trick, and it fails, the user is non-plussed. One of the fights I was in had a guy kick me in the nuts hard enough to pick my heels off the ground. I looked down and saw him doing it again.
My sparring partner (a female) used to throw shots at my nuts. 1: I’d been hit before. 2: I knew what to do when I saw it coming. So I did that, which hit him in the back of the head with a sidewalk. The other two guys saw this happen, and decided I was too crazy/tough, to keep fighting, and fled.
I made it about 30 seconds before it took effect, but all I needed was the interlude.
Unless your instructor trains for that, it’s a mixed bag. There is a lot to be gained from the practice, and the confidence, but it’s like firearms, it takes practice and mindset.
I recommend, Cheap Shot, Ambushes, and Other Dirty Tricks by Marc “Animal” MacYoung (a friend of mine, and I did the photography for the book), because it is very good at addressing those issues, and a lot more besides.
I still think that the single best thing my father ever did for me was teach me how to hit back when I was being attacked. Not just the throwing a punch part, though that was cool too. It was more the fact that he taught me that it was OK to defend myself, and that I had a right to do so physically if my space was being invaded.
It would really help if all girls got that message as children.
Amen.
@Seraph:
That was the other component of my thought that I wasn’t going to bring up except that you mentioned it. Us lefties are always thought to be weak and unarmed, and I was wondering earlier today if we shouldn’t do something to change that impression. I wonder if 20 million armed liberal multicultural LGBTQQIA folks wouldn’t shift the national conversation in a more positive direction.
Pecunium – You’re friends with Marc MacYoung? I’ve read that book and several others of his and I think that other than some of his rape advice he’s got the best website dealing with self-defense issues on the net!
I’m impressed by your social circle!
Also your photography was quite good!
Addendum: I have no philosophical problem with people carrying guns.
But….
I think they need to be really aware of the problems.
Lets take the “mall shooting”.
If I’m packing what will I do?
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Hunker down and hide, in all probability. (there goes my, “badass cred”).
Why?
Because, unless I see it start, I don’t know what’s going on. I also don’t know who else is armed, and might think I was a bad guy.
I will, if I can, get to a limited access area, and draw. At which point I’ll defend myself/the people with me. Then I will, as soon as I see the police, lie face down, and put the gun far from me.
If someone is willing to internalise all the things in my first post, and can do that… they are (IMO) just fine carrying a gun.
“Us lefties are always thought to be weak and unarmed, and I was wondering earlier today if we shouldn’t do something to change that impression. I wonder if 20 million armed liberal multicultural LGBTQQIA folks wouldn’t shift the national conversation in a more positive direction.”
I do think that psychologically, breaking the assumption that the left is a buncha pansy’s out to take your guns away and too chicken to own any is a good idea.
I now wonder how some of our “regular visitors” who might very well assume every feminut here is anti-gun and out to get theirs, will react to all the thoughtful gun ownership support on this thread…
zhinxy: That was some of the hardest illo work I’ve ever done. The skinny kid with the ponytail… was me.
The beer bottles, were not props.
Marc and I, before he left LA, used to be pretty tight. I could tell you some stories. I can say, he was my first knife- fighting instructor. I taught him to use rifles.
I had an interesting youth. 🙂
Bows and arrows are also good for shooting quietly non-nice zombies.
hahahha! I’m totally going to find my copy as soon as I can 😉 I think I remember you, skinny ponytail kid!
@Pecunium
As far as your mall scenario, I’m all in with the “hunker down” strategy. Carrying a gun doesn’t make you a cop, and it sure doesn’t make you Bruce Willis in “Die Hard”!
The negative with handgun carry is that reasonably having one creates the paradox of needing to learn when NOT to draw your weapon. I know that when I’m carrying, my thought is always to defuse situations and retreat. I don’t need to prove anything, all I need to do is keep myself and my loved ones safe. Oddly, knowing that I can put someone down if I need to removes the macho BS need to prove that I can be a tough guy to other people.
I am now flipping through the self defense book, featuring YOUNG PECUNIUM, photography by YOUNG PECUNIUM!
Awesome!!
You were kinda cute! If I may harass you a bit! Because things are okay when women do them! 😉
“this is why I think women got the shit end of the stick, biology wise. Not only do we get punished per-say with pregnancy, but we are generally physically weaker too. How do we defend ourselves?”
You could always, you know.
Get a man to protect you.
Or stay at home.
Yeah, I know, it feels a little bit demeaning. But it works! And it worked for millions of years! Men have strength, they have size and they have mental preparedness and emotional control. It’s their job to go out and fight the saber-toothed rapist, not yours.
Good to see a girl acknowledging the fundamental flaw of feminism though. Equality – can it really occur when one group is so obviously inferior? And when that inferiority is a biological reality, not some wicked cultural invention of The Patriarchy™?
In the concrete jungle, feminists are just asking to be eaten alive.
@CassandraSays
Yea that’s probably true, unfortunately. I think also if a woman were to hit back, she might be afraid of provoking more severe retaliation so she will do nothing. I know with me I would have no problem becoming physically aggressive for self defense purposes, but the thing that might keep me from doing so is fear of worse retaliation or death. I think everyone should be taught that physically defending yourself from violence is ok, but especially girls because we’re socialized to not be aggressive even when time calls for it.
@Pecunium
That sounds really painful 🙁 but yes that is a good point. I mean what is the first piece of advice that girls and women are given for self defense? aim for the nuts. That’s what I was told, and from other men too. I’d think an attacker would take that into consideration. I will check out that book, thanks.
e? aim for the nuts. That’s what I was told, and from other men too. I
*nods*
And that’s why it’s what the guy is expecting. You really should check the book out, I’ve moved from chuckling at Young Pecunium and onto seriously re-reading it.
Arks, do fuck off, the grown-ups are speaking.
Get a man to protect you.
Or stay at home.
Yeah, I know, it feels a little bit demeaning. But it works! And it worked for millions of years! Men have strength, they have size and they have mental preparedness and emotional control. It’s their job to go out and fight the saber-toothed rapist, not yours.
And if we’re way more likely to be raped by that man, or other protectors we trust, at home?
Just you know, hypothetically. I’m not touching the fact that you’re using “MRAnthropology”
Skinny young men with ponytails are often adorable.
@ Quackers – The thing is, a certain percentage of attackers will back off immediately if they encounter an aggressive response. But some won’t. It’s hard to tell which you’re dealing with, but my feeling has always been that if I don’t fight back I’m almost guaranteeing that bad things will happen, whereas if I do fight back it might work.
I talked this through with a cop who came to my school to talk about self defence a long time ago, and his statement was that on the record he wasn’t going to commit, but off the record, if I was his kid, he’d tell me to always fight back.
@Arks
Are you kidding? You really can’t be serious, or that dumb.
@CassandraSays:
“I talked this through with a cop who came to my school to talk about self defence a long time ago, and his statement was that on the record he wasn’t going to commit, but off the record, if I was his kid, he’d tell me to always fight back.”
From what I’ve read about predators, they tend to be really good at finding easier “prey.” If you are walking around with the attitude that you’ll fight back, your body language will telegraph that to many potential attackers. Not all, of course… but it probably makes your chances better.
As the old horror movie cliche goes, when it comes to rape, the killer is often already inside the house. Which Arks probably knows, by the way, he just gets a kick out of attempting to use the fear of rape to keep women in line.