Well, that was … instructive. The Twitter hashtag extravaganza that is #mencallmethings is still going strong. But I think at this point it’s safe to say that it has basically served it’s purpose: to highlight the obnoxious, obscene, often threatening misogynist shit that women who express their opinions about almost anything on the internet get in their inboxes or in comments online on a regular basis. Women with feminist blogs who actually call out this kind of misogyny get this sort of abuse basically every day.
Sady Doyle of Tiger Beatdown, who started up this hashtag campaign, explained in an eloquent and angry blog post why she did it: to point out how absolutely routine this sort of shit is. When she started her blog, she really hadn’t anticipated the sheer volume of vicious shit she’d get:
I got targeted. With threats, with insults, with smear campaigns, with attempts to threaten my employment or credibility or just general ability to get through the day with a healthy attitude and a minimal amount of insult.
The intent of all this abuse is simple: to intimidate. When someone says to a woman online “I hope you get raped with a chainsaw,” the point is to get her to shut up. The person who posts this sort of violent shit, Doyle notes,
hopes that the next time you sit down to write, you’ll remember that yikesy chainsaw-rape thing and think, “you know? Maybe this isn’t such a great idea. Maybe I don’t need to say this. Maybe I’ll piss someone off, and maybe it will be more than I can handle, and you know, maybe my thoughts on this topic just ARE NOT IMPORTANT ENOUGH for me to risk the headache/fear/irritation/distress/panic attack I know I will get.”
And then, when you say that aloud, they call you a whiny little girl who can’t handle the Internet. Because, of COURSE multiple chainsaw-rape comments aren’t a big deal! They’re just words! Sticks and stones! …
To you, my friends, I say: Fuck that noise. All of this matters. A hostile work environment matters. Being afraid of your own in-box matters. Deleting your blog because that’s the only way for you to have a normal, non-hate-filled life matters. “Accepting” that continual, virulent, hateful misogynist abuse is a pre-condition for being a lady who talks about thing, or for challenging sexism in any way, no matter who you are: That matters. And if you think we’re fragile, well. LET US COUNT THE WAYS we have hacked it, under conditions your pampered manly self just cannot imagine. LET US DEMONSTRATE FOR YOU the shit we wade through, every day, in order to talk about whether or not we liked that one “Community” episode or Lady GaGa album.
Naturally, critics of the whole hashtag campaign have done their best to minimize and dismiss this sort of routine harassment in exactly the ways that Doyle predicted they would.
The charming Ferdinand Bardamu of In Mala Fide responded to #mencallmethings with a bunch of obnoxious comments that conveniently proved basically every point Sady Doyle was trying to make with the hashtag in the first place. He started off with this bit of rapier wit:
He followed this up with a clumsy fat joke:
He continued on in this vein for awhile, so proud of his insightful critiques that he made a blog post about it.
Encouraged by Bardamu’s example, blogger PMAFT (Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Technology) announced a #MenCallMeThings Trolling Contest. The highlight of his own contributions to this contest:
Over on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit, c0mputar offered slightly more coherent, if equally misguided, response.
The reality is that most of the “misogyny” they face is just criticism to their feminist viewpoints. I see this a lot when I confront feminists arguments, present my arguments, and get called a misogynist, amongst other things characterized by misandry. It happens on both sides …
Really now? Here are some actual examples of comments posted on #mencallmethings (taken from a comment from Shaenon in the discussion here).
here’s some to start: ‘I’ll rape your mum, faggot fuck’ “I’ll come to your house and kill you”
#mencallmethings, impersonate me on FB, & make disgusting sexual comments, post my name & # when I helped organize Slutwalk
cunt, whore, ugly, disgusting, cold, feminazi, shut the fuck up bitch, manipulative, crazy, playing the victim, sociopath
Bitch, whore, being sensitive, little girl, dumb, subject of jokes involving physical and sexual assault.
Any variation on fat and/or ugly at this point just makes me yawn.
I’ve had so many emails and messages telling me I deserve a beating, I don’t even keep track any longer.
“13? Judging by the size of your titties, I’d of thought you were 18.”
(censored version) If you keep talking the way you do, you deserved to get raped.
My #mencallmethings moment – receiving an email consisting of 1600 lines plus of the same insult over and over. My crime? Being fat.
I’ve had so many guys tell me how good I must be in bed because I’m fat and therefor will do anyone
I usually get ‘sweetheart’ just before they dismiss my argument as being ‘stupid’. No counter argument.
Will not repeat the violence that’s been directed at me but this one made me laugh “Blubbering self-important herd animal.”
apparently I’m a lesbian… I was unaware until #mencallmethings.
I’M ON ANTI-DEPRESSANTS AND I CANT EVEN JERK OFF CORRECTLY NOW & ITS BECAUSE OF WOMEN SO FUCK ALL YOU INFERIOR COWS
“You should have your tongue ripped out.”
I get sent one rape threat a month on average.
I was once told “get back in the kitchen you ugly bitch” for posting on a Linux board (can’t remember which one now)
Have you ever wanted someone to tell you that your genetalia should be stapled shut with bugs inside, start a blog
How about being choked to death during a forced blowjob? Start a feminist blog.
Not worth the effort to murder: the most recent example of what I had to delete off the blog when #mencallmethings
C0mputar, in his Reddit post, went on to offer another argument that seems to be a favorite of those trying to trivialize the abuse catalogued by the contributors to #mencallmethings:
In the end, veterans of the internet know there is no protected demographic. Everyone gets shit on, but if you make a point of belonging with a group, you get shit on even more, and more so the smaller you are. You know who gets shit on more than feminists? MRAs.
Really? Some MRA types on Twitter tried to get a rival hashtag going: #womencallmethings. Needless to say, they didn’t have much to work with.
One Man Boobz non-fan — whom I banned for his repeated comments about anal rape — tried to post a sarcastic little comment here last night dismissing #mencallmethings on similar grounds. Here’s a screenshot from my wordpress account, with his identifying data erased:
Let’s just, for contrast, take a look at the previous comment he tried to post here:
Another day, another “hope you get raped” comment.
Ironically, though I’m pretty thoroughly disliked across the manosphere, I actually get a lot less of this sort of abuse than most reasonably well-known feminist bloggers who happen to be non-dudes. Oh, sure, I get called a “traitor” and a “mangina,” and once in a while someone points out that I’m, you know, fat, but when it comes to the really nasty shit, the abusive commenters and emailers seem to much prefer going after women. This may be because they are misogynistic assholes. That’s just a theory, though.
Sweet Satan, Holly!
@ Holly:
Can I give you a hug? Please? So apt, so well-put that you need a hug, possibly a hug and baked goods as a thank-you.
>>Of course, fat men can forget about it too.
Talk for yourself, sweetie. I’m 5’10”, 285 pounds. No issue here, even though I have a lot of deal breakers (I only date kinksters, I want girls who are geek-friendly if not geek themselves, and so on).
Lots of women dig the big guys.
This fine offer might increase the number of MRAL’s therapy sessions with ..I don’t know… Somebody has a guesstimate?
@Holly: Oh my.
The sub half of my switch personality really liked that post. 😛
“Sexually acceptable shape.”
MRAL, the fact that you even think this is a meaningful phrase when confronted with a lot of poster’s experiences (or just going outside and looking around) says so much about you.
That you’re understanding where Brandon’s coming from says even more. Remember, if you don’t end up like up like NWO or DKM, you could be a hyper-dense IT dude with an imaginary girlfriend. You don’t want that.
@Naira
Thanks for the thanks. Reminds me of the last thanks I got from a stranger. I was doing some grocery shopping, and there was some sort of issue that required a manager. I was probably stuck waiting close to 10 minutes, so I made small talk with the women ringing up and bagging my groceries. On the way out, the bagger thanked me for being cool about the wait and for being so friendly. I told her more or less what I told MRAL, which is that you get what you give. Most people are generally OK, and are willing to treat you as generally OK too as long as you don’t give them a good reason not to. When you behave positively, people react positively to you, and you just feel better overall.
That’s genuine positive attitude, BTW. That’s the other thing that’s just general good advice, to stop being so goal-oriented and relax and be real with yourself and others. People know when you’re trying to manipulate them, and they react badly to it. Why not just be positive because it makes you feel good? Why not have some hobbies that you like just because they are things you enjoy? Why not be friendly to people because it feels good to interact with other folks, and not because you’re trying to get something out of them? The idea of “lining up and fighting for anything” makes women the enemy, whatever their personal intentions might be. If you start looking for fights, you can’t blame the other person when you find one. People are generally OK and not looking to screw you over… and women are people.
At least, that’s what I’ve heard. 🙂
[blockquote] And the sex is my way or the goddamn highway. I don’t give a fuck what you like. I like fingering so you’re going to finger me till your hand cramps up and then you’re going to finger me with a cramped hand. Blowjobs are kinda hard work for me so you can fucking forget any of that. I like fingering boy’s butts so I’m going to beg you to let me do yours and pout if you say no. If you come during any of this, it’ll pretty much be a coincidence, because it’s not like I give a fuck. [/blockquote]
This doesn’t look too bad. However this does:
[blockquote] I don’t like you. I’ll fuck you, but I don’t like anything about you … I won’t respect you … I’ll probably make fun of you to my friends and on the Internet. [/blockquote]
@talacaris: Wait, you mean ALL of it doesn’t look bad? o.o
MRAL-please stop being like Fry and co from the sex change episode of Futurama.
TV is not real life.
One part of it has a certain submissive appeal..
@talacaris: NOW IT MAKES SENSE! Though I don’t think that was remotely what Holly was going for. 😛
@ Improbable Joe:
Definitely. I generally assume that 90% of people will be pretty decent 90% of the time. Not perfect, mind. But most people tend to offer to help people with heavy loads (my downstairs neighbors offered twice to help with furniture my fiance and I recently bought), open doors, smile, say please/thank-you, and deal with small annoyances with relatively good grace.
A smile, heartfelt thanks, and the offer to do that for others has served me better than all the suspicion of men that the trolls here think I have. I’m happy with my life not because I’m suspicious and bitchy, but because I have a reasonable faith in other people to be pretty nice most of the time and do my best to make sure I am pretty decent to them as well.
Oh no, I made the double period sentence ending? What does that mean?
@talacaris: a pink-clad SWAT team will be at your house shortly. Do not be alarmed: they are merely rounding up all the men to take to Swedish concentration camps.
@Improbably Joe
I think he means Klondike Bar.
I’m still haunted by the things I’ve done for one…
@MRAL
Fat men can get laid
Amen, I think fat men are super sexy. That’s why I married a big guy. I am personally not a fan of muscular men even though TV keeps saying that’s what women like. One exception is that I think Dean Cain is hot, but that’s more for his face than his body. See MRAL? Personal tastes are not universal. Some women dig short guys, some like tall guys, some like skinny guys, some like heavy guys. Men have varied tastes, too. So do LGBT people.
@ Molly Ren: Or maybe she did, considering MRAL probably is scared of any mention of any kink.
MRAL:
You GET to pick and choose the men you are ‘compatible” with.
And you get to do the same with women. You’re only hurting yourself by pretending otherwise.
Some men are annoying to douchey too, but in my experience they are far, far less common
Do you ever stop for a second and think about the fact that you don’t probably put up with what women put with, and therefore you have a different perspective on the matter? Do men ever hit on you?
ithiliana:
No dating, no games, just spending time and more time together.
I, for one strongly agree with and endorse this approach to relationships.
What MRAL et al don’t seem to realize is that Holly’s scenario is a potential outcome for a woman each and every time she hooks up with a new guy. There are things you can do to minimise that possibility, but there’s not much you can do to eliminate it completely.
MRAL in particular needs to realize that the scenario Holly depicts is probably what most women he approaches assume that he has in mind, since he comes across as so hostile to women.
This is why you can’t get a girlfriend, MRAL. It has nothing to do with how you look.
Cynickal wrote,
“@MRAL
Fat men can get laid”
I’d add the addendum that yes, they can. But the beauty politics surrounding fat is still incredibly complicated right now.
In other words, it basically sucks for anyone, of any gender, to be fat right now. That’s why fat acceptance exists. But this does not mean people aren’t going to find you attractive, it just means that our culture sucks.
ithiliana:
No dating, no games, just spending time and more time together.
This is how my husband and I got together. And MRAL, guess what? He’s only 5’4″!!! Shorter than me! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
“What MRAL et al don’t seem to realize is that Holly’s scenario is a potential outcome for a woman each and every time she hooks up with a new guy.”
Sometimes I feel like I’m living in an alternate universe here. Any guy I’ve ever been with wanted to pleasure me. They get a serious kick out of it.
Also, I actually don’t dig big guys in a sexual sense (the man I know who I consider to have the best body is 5ft10 and under 130 pounds), but when I am approached by big guys I don’t react to them in the way that MRAL claims that women react to him (and thus, by extension, to all men). If someone approaches me and I’m not attracted to them, but they seem nice, I’ll often try to make friends with them. Because I like people, and more friends are always a good ting to have.
The only times that I’m cruel to men who ask me out is those times when they do it in a way that’s rude, scary, or mean-spirited.
Exactly. Sure, it’s probably easy for most women to “get sex” at any moment, but that doesn’t mean much if the sex she can get is totally one sided and offers her nothing as far as pleasure. What kind of offer is “Stick it in your mouth and then hop on top. What do you mean you want to kiss first? That’s selfish!”? If that’s what’s being offered, then the woman doesn’t have many options either. Sure some women like that, but it’s not super popular with the ladies. I don’t blame them when the say “Yeah, I’ll pass on that”.