So yesterday I quoted some random Spearheader who described women (well, white women in particular) as “complete parasitical whores roaming the landscape spreading VD like Johnny Appleseed and fucking men over.”
One reader wondered if Mr. Appleseed really went about spreading VD. So I did a little research, and it turns out that it is exceedingly unlikely that Mr. Appleseed – who actually was a real person — spread anything other than the magic of apples. And his Swedenborgian beliefs.
Why? Because Mr. Appleseed – real name John Chapman – was what these days we might call a Man Going His Own Way. Seems he didn’t have much truck with the ladies, according to one contemporary account quoted in his Wikipedia entry:
On one occasion Miss PRICE’s mother asked Johnny if he would not be a happier man, if he were settled in a home of his own, and had a family to love him. He opened his eyes very wide–they were remarkably keen, penetrating grey eyes, almost black–and replied that all women were not what they professed to be; that some of them were deceivers; and a man might not marry the amiable woman that he thought he was getting, after all.
So what led poor Mr. Appleseed to these dire thoughts about women? Apparently the underage girl he hoped to some day get with was more into dudes who weren’t him:
Now we had always heard that Johnny had loved once upon a time, and that his lady love had proven false to him. Then he said one time he saw a poor, friendless little girl, who had no one to care for her, and sent her to school, and meant to bring her up to suit himself, and when she was old enough he intended to marry her. He clothed her and watched over her; but when she was fifteen years old, he called to see her once unexpectedly, and found her sitting beside a young man, with her hand in his, listening to his silly twaddle.
That ungrateful little strumpet!
I peeped over at Johnny while he was telling this, and, young as I was, I saw his eyes grow dark as violets, and the pupils enlarge, and his voice rise up in denunciation, while his nostrils dilated and his thin lips worked with emotion. How angry he grew! He thought the girl was basely ungrateful. After that time she was no protegé of his.
But Appleseed, despite giving up on women in the real world, held out hope for the afterlife – explaining to others that he expected to have two spirit wives all his own after he died. Which I guess is the 19th century equivalent of the MGTOWers today who fantasize about the sexy robot ladies who will eventually, it is hoped, make actual human females – with their troubling “thoughts” and “needs” and “desires” of their own – obsolete.
Mr. Appleseed’s quest to remain alone was probably also helped by the fact that – if the illustration I found on Wikipedia is any indication – he looked a bit like Dale Gribble from King of the Hill. Only much, much sloppier, with long hair. Oh, and instead of wearing a baseball cap, he wore “a tin utensil which answered both as a cap and a mush pot.”
So, yeah, a creepy weirdo who hates women — definitely an MGTOWer all the way.
Oh, except that he actually did something with his life — you know, helping spread apple trees to a big portion of the midwest — instead of spending all his time going on about how all women are whores.
Tell me, Mellertoad, did a woman fire you or take your job? Sounds like it.
No, I can’t speak for everyone here, but I don’t feel silly making remarks about you. You should feel silly making the remarks you make.
I would CHERISH a sweet, old fashioned, ‘hellokitty’ type of woman! There is nothing about me that she would, or could find me “offputting” or terrifying”!
That’s because she’s PRETEND, Mr. Meller. Of course the sort of women you want aren’t afraid of you. You MADE THEM UP.
And then we’ll build our own treehouse and it will be way awesomer and we will never let girls into it ever and then you’ll be sorry!
DKM, as if you couldn’t guess:
As it happens, I live in a house occupied both by real flesh-and-blood women and by a rather greater number of Hello Kitty dolls and sundry other soft toy animals. I have to say, in the ten years or so that we’ve been living together, I’ve never once felt tempted to kick my wife out of our bed and replace her with my daughter’s cuddly toys. And even when said daughter wakes us up by hitting us with one of them, I don’t look at it and think “Is that what I’ve been missing all these years?”
I’m not remotely afraid of strong women. I’m married to one, very much hope I’m bringing up another, and we all give as good as we get when it comes to getting our opinion across. If I say something stupid, they’ll call me out on it – and of course vice versa. That’s the kind of environment I grew up in, and one in which I’m very happy to stay – the notion that anyone deserves more respect just because they have a penis is so self-evidently ludicrous that I’m amazed that you can continue to peddle it with a straight face.
Let me think about that for a millisecond…. nope, can’t say I do.
Oh, you’d cherish her until she’s 25, and then what? Mandatory cancer? Or will your perfect society have a system in place for exterminating women who are too old to dress like children, so you may get yourself another? Because, seriously, “Hello Kitty”? Until what age can a woman be “Hello Kitty”-themed?
Also: putting “old-fashioned” and “hellokitty” in the same sentence is wild indeed. “Hello Kitty” originated in the mid-1970’s. The culture of infantilizing women in the “Hello Kitty” style and a cult of the teenager dates from about the 1950’s. Before then, adolescent and teenage girls were expected to dress like grown women.
@DKM: Don’t all of you feel just plain silly making such remarks about me now??
Nope.
Feeling quite vindicated by further evidence supporting community evaluation of your misogyny.
Amused
You are indeed largely correct that there is an unfortunate infantalizing of glamour and women in postfeminist society. Modern women, with their unisex, androgyny, and just plain ugliness, have made any attempts to please men anathema to women and fashion!
Heaven forbid that women look like “sex objects”! Just look at the posts from manboobzettes at the thought that fashion or couture can actually enhance a ladylike beauty and sleek, adorable femininity. Before hello Kitty, teenage girls were expected to–and took pride in–dressing like grown women, and grown women were expected to dress like attactive ladies, NOT something that crawled out of the nearest sewer!
I said that in a more normal world, I would be happy to admire and love a more standard woman, but what we have had since the fifties (if not since c.1890’s) is repellent and ridiculous! Hello Kitty isn’t perfect, but she IS dainty, feminine, and lovable, and she, like perhaps sweet old fashioned ‘Madame Alexander” collectable dolls (little lady lovelies) will do until more of you women recover some sanity, and men can endure your presence again!!
DKM, you are categorically not speaking for me, or indeed for any other man I know in real life. And the women in my life dress to please themselves, and are more than entitled to do so.
“You are indeed largely correct that there is an unfortunate infantalizing of glamour and women in postfeminist society. Modern women, with their unisex, androgyny, and just plain ugliness, have made any attempts to please men anathema to women and fashion!”
Sometimes I wonder what the eff DKM is reading all day. Are the women of Vogue unisex? How about Cosmo? I can’t remember the last time I saw a movie or a TV show when someone was obviously queer, nevermind a female lead with short hair and grey coveralls.
I knew it was Madame Alexander dolls for him!
I…
Well, there are people -men and women- who are genuinely, sexually attracted to stuffed animals, Meller-toad. There are also people who find themselves romantically and sexually attracted to inanimate objects; object sexuality… paraphalia. I’m not judging you… not for your attraction to dolls and Hello Kitty, at any rate.
I do think, however, that it’s quite the stretch to suggest that stuffed animals, china dolls, and a cartoon kitty with no mouth,
Now, certainly I mantain that you are vile and disgusting wind-bag, barely able to maintain the pretense of being human. You are a bloviating, Meller-toad and that’s clear to all who care to look. But when you write things like this you only reveal -more fully- that you have a near total lack of real world contact with other human beings, regardless of their gender. If I didn’t find you so completely repulsive and utterly deserving, it might be a litle sad.
You think that men, even men who might prefer a more traditional wife, find the Hello Kitty doll more alluring than a woman with a job and an education. The jokes write themselves. I can’t even..
Meller-toad? When was the last time you had a friend in your house for dinner?
But, but, Molly Ren! Some of those horrible t.v. women wear…pants!
*swoons*
Weatherby–More’s the pity! Modern women hate YOU and other renegade men even MORE than they hate me and traditional men. Just wait a few more years, or when she feels she can get rid of you.
Look at some stories in http://www.the-Spearhead.com about men and divorce for example. These men each loved their wives just as much as you love yours, and got roasted alive–and often lost their children to boot–when Ms. Modernwoman gets bored, blames hubby (and sometimes children) for her married life and uses YOUR money to enrich some divorce lawyer–and you can take it from there…!
A word to the wise!
Omg, poor Dracula saw woman ankles and passed out! The Victorians were right all along! ;D
I’m actually a big fan of skirts, myself, but they’re impractical for working in a lab all day so I usually stick with jeans. And in the winter I let my legs grow out a very luxurious pelt, so wearing pants means I don’t have to bother either with shaving or with attacking all bystanders with eeeevil leg hair (because I’ve seen enough hentai to know where that is going!)
I’m officially insulted on Wetherby’s behalf, now. Ick.
Nobinayamu-
As far as toads go, it takes one to know one! I think I may be striking a bit close to home, aren’t I, Ms. ubershrike??
You wouldn’t find the need to insult me unless there was something to my observation of the utter lack of femininity and allure to the modern woman, would you (and the rest of the manboobz sisterhood from hell)? Maybe I am finally uncovering something of importance about feminists that you would rather keep hidden, or even better, alerting other men, and the women who love us, that something better exists than you wretched modern women!
And to you, Ms. ubershrike,
Bedsores and loneliness!!
Boy, it felt good to write that for a change!
Everything you say about women is insulting, Meller. If someone insults you back, that does not mean you are a genius who found feminism weakness, just that you’re a pain in the ass.
Also, your opinion on female beauty still isn’t the standard and you’re still not allowed to speak on behalf of all men.
No, Kyrie, not everything that I say about women is insulting. Even when I attempt to write posts praising women, or saying good things about them, youall still find reasons to attack them. Nothing that i say makes the slightest bit of difference, even when I attempt to cite points where, if I don’t or can’t agree with feminism, I don’t disagree with it that strongly either.
Quite a number of times I have looked for common ground, and come out with empty pockets. Sooner or later I just gave up, and figure that even if common ground exists, it offeres nothing to me. My feelings about women, by and large, are positive, and only feminist extremism is a turnoff to me.
i am not speaking for other men, but I am not going to have someone victimized by modern women if I can help it, even if he is a renegade male for the time being.
Oh, Meller-toad. Your repulsiveness is only exacerbated by your lack of originality.
In what regard? The fact that you’ve proven yourself even more deeply disturbed than most posters here had originally presumed because you literally believe that there are many men like you? You are so disconnected from reality that you believe that most men would prefer to talk to dolls (and possibly masturbate to their stillness and glass eyes; again, no judgment) than have romantic and sexual relationships with women who possess levels of education and employment of which you disapprove.
Like I said, Meller-toad, the jokes write themselves. I’m not insulting you for being into dolls. I’m pointing it out; I’m mocking you a bit. But insulting you? Certainly not. Why would I? You told a woman who lost a friend and colleague to murder that the victim probably deserved it for being obnoxious. That’s the sort of person you are.
Jerking off to Hello Kitty is probably the least offensive thing about you.
You keep enjoying your impotent rage and anticipating your imminent dotage. Your dolls will be sold on craig’s list. And, if there’s any justice, some little girl who would have rather had a chemistry set will gouge out their fake eyes and cut off their hair, and demand a toy that’s fun and interactive.
You enjoy all of that lonely, Meller. It suits you.
Bedsores and loneliness with 5 exclamation points!!!!!
Nobinayamu – venomous harpy
The fact that you don’t realize that you say offensive things does not make you less responsible for saying them. Especially if that is a repeated behavior. Anyway my point still stand, you insult people (ok, maybe *just* most of the time) and people call you names.
Still not a genius, but feel free to show our kryptonite to the whole world.
DKM’s calling feminists ugly? Oh noes! He’s discovered our totally original and not at all cliched secret weakness!! I’m meeeeelting–!!! (Next he’s gonna say we’re all lesbians! And we have hairy legs!! How does he knooooow???)
Mellertoad, do you always try to find common ground by laughing at cancer patients and murder victims? If so, you must be a real hit at parties.
No they don’t. Unless I consort with actresses so brilliant that they’re wasted in their present jobs.
Well, aside from the fact that she’s the majority earner in our household so it would mostly be HER money (and I get legal advice free in any case, thanks to a well-placed close relative), why do you think these women have been getting bored?
I suspect in a large number of cases it’s because their husbands or ex-husbands think that throwing money and/or gifts at them is an acceptable substitute for having a proper human relationship. Obviously, I can’t say that it’s impossible, but I think it’s extraordinarily unlikely that the same thing will happen to my marriage because of the crucial difference that my wife is also my best friend.
Less than ten minutes ago we both got a simultaneous fit of the giggles at the phrase “antique floral knob” on a website she was reading. Over ten years since we met, we still phone and email regularly during the day, usually about some trivial gossip that simply can’t wait. We still quite literally fancy the pants off each other, and the chances of either of us having an affair are best answered by the famous Paul Newman quip “why go out for a hamburger when you have steak at home?”
Now can any of these people on The Spearhead honestly say that their marriage was like this right up to the point of the big break-up? The mere fact that they’re associated with that site suggests otherwise.
Both were regrettable excesses in unusual circumstances. I wanted to show youall what laughing at victims of mutilaiton and castration felt like, and cancer was the closest example that presented itself, and I unfortunately attacked the victim of an attack by a ex-husband who was apparantly deranged by the divorce and child custody system, even though the victime did not deserve it in her particular case.
I genuinely apologise for that! However, don’t forget, it is certainly frequent that men ARE deprived of access to their children by vindictive and spiteful ex-wives, aided and abetted by a corrupt and vicious familly court system.
i was absolutely wrong in that one particular case, but it remains a fact that countless husbands and fathers are legally “raped” by the family courts, social workers, and marriage counselors in America today, and an even more dismal fact that such a gruesome state of affairs is aided and abetted by feminist lawyeresses, social workers, judges, and other evildoers who benefit from the spiriling upward of divorce and broken homes.
I’m sorry about what I did in those two cases, but my outrage at a system that injures families generally and men in particular should make it understandable if not excusable.