So yesterday I quoted some random Spearheader who described women (well, white women in particular) as “complete parasitical whores roaming the landscape spreading VD like Johnny Appleseed and fucking men over.”
One reader wondered if Mr. Appleseed really went about spreading VD. So I did a little research, and it turns out that it is exceedingly unlikely that Mr. Appleseed – who actually was a real person — spread anything other than the magic of apples. And his Swedenborgian beliefs.
Why? Because Mr. Appleseed – real name John Chapman – was what these days we might call a Man Going His Own Way. Seems he didn’t have much truck with the ladies, according to one contemporary account quoted in his Wikipedia entry:
On one occasion Miss PRICE’s mother asked Johnny if he would not be a happier man, if he were settled in a home of his own, and had a family to love him. He opened his eyes very wide–they were remarkably keen, penetrating grey eyes, almost black–and replied that all women were not what they professed to be; that some of them were deceivers; and a man might not marry the amiable woman that he thought he was getting, after all.
So what led poor Mr. Appleseed to these dire thoughts about women? Apparently the underage girl he hoped to some day get with was more into dudes who weren’t him:
Now we had always heard that Johnny had loved once upon a time, and that his lady love had proven false to him. Then he said one time he saw a poor, friendless little girl, who had no one to care for her, and sent her to school, and meant to bring her up to suit himself, and when she was old enough he intended to marry her. He clothed her and watched over her; but when she was fifteen years old, he called to see her once unexpectedly, and found her sitting beside a young man, with her hand in his, listening to his silly twaddle.
That ungrateful little strumpet!
I peeped over at Johnny while he was telling this, and, young as I was, I saw his eyes grow dark as violets, and the pupils enlarge, and his voice rise up in denunciation, while his nostrils dilated and his thin lips worked with emotion. How angry he grew! He thought the girl was basely ungrateful. After that time she was no protegé of his.
But Appleseed, despite giving up on women in the real world, held out hope for the afterlife – explaining to others that he expected to have two spirit wives all his own after he died. Which I guess is the 19th century equivalent of the MGTOWers today who fantasize about the sexy robot ladies who will eventually, it is hoped, make actual human females – with their troubling “thoughts” and “needs” and “desires” of their own – obsolete.
Mr. Appleseed’s quest to remain alone was probably also helped by the fact that – if the illustration I found on Wikipedia is any indication – he looked a bit like Dale Gribble from King of the Hill. Only much, much sloppier, with long hair. Oh, and instead of wearing a baseball cap, he wore “a tin utensil which answered both as a cap and a mush pot.”
So, yeah, a creepy weirdo who hates women — definitely an MGTOWer all the way.
Oh, except that he actually did something with his life — you know, helping spread apple trees to a big portion of the midwest — instead of spending all his time going on about how all women are whores.
Quackers – Re corporations – Almost no libertarian is for corporations in theory – in the sense that they are limited liability businesses that require government to exist.
Many a more right-leaning libertarian is basically for them in practice though. Which is why more and more left leaning libertarians are attacking that segment of the movement.
As for capitalism… This is a big big fight we’re having right now. Basically, we’re for free markets. We tend to agree on that. Whether we call our free market ideal capitalism, or whether we use capitalism for the State-corporate current system, we are currently raging bloody screamy fights over. Personally, I am still fond of the term anarcho-capitalist, but am slowly realizing I am losing the battle here. Le sigh.
You might like this nice overview of “free market anti-capitalism” that ran in The American Conservative –
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/libertarian-left/
It’s really exciting times to be in the shit-stained monkey cage that is libertarianism. XD
Here I noticed, near my closing in the above outline of a private property private law society,, that I addressed the matter of abused women in my hypothetical society in a way that should have warmed the hearts of everyone here, and yet there was not a single mention of it anywhere by anyone!
I notice that everyone here was sure able to ‘understand” the previous post on the subject.
Given how I allegedly gave women to the tender mercies of abusive owners and masters without any consideration of their well being, shouldn’t my proposed safeguards outlined in my private law society above, safeguards which are working in not one, not two, but three different ways to assure both her safety, and her family’s welfare are outlined,
I should think that some favorable mentions of my proposed anartopia are in order, on those feminist (!) grounds, if none other. I mean, youall were the ones who were complaining a blue streak about how married women were supposedly ‘enslaved” in my kind of society.
You’re welcome!
Or maybe you just didn’t make any sense!
…And then I read Friday and was like FUCK THE WHAT, HEINLEIN?
Do not read Farnham’s Freehold. Do not, do not, do NOT.
Quackers, I don’t know what Meller would do, and I don’t even think meller knows what meller would do, and I uncharitably think that Meller thinks Meller’s White Paradise will basically rule all by default of being the natural superiors, but not by force or anything!
but I deny that that hobbesian vision is the natural way of the world, or is inevitable. You might like this piece: http://mises.org/daily/1855
But wouldn’t Warlords Take Over? by Robert P. Murphy.
Lol, I will not.
Meller, have you no concept of human nature? people tend to be assholes. Greedy and looking out only for themselves.
Wait.. what? o_O Even me? o:
I should think that some favorable mentions of my proposed anartopia are in order, on those feminist (!) grounds,
XD Now you’re begging for feminist pats on the head? xD Wow, Zhinxy has rly gotten into your brain hasn’t she? 😀
Ami defeats Hobbes! Not the tiger… Well, Ami would defeat the tiger too. With cuddles!
Aren’t you the one who told me to not care what feminists think? To be the awesome sexy hot thang you think I am? xD
Now you’re caring what feminists think 🙁
Meller, you want favorable mentions? Write something that can be viewed favorably, if you can.
Quackers-
I don’t see the status quo (or any socialistic variant of it) doing very well now, or having done very well by the people of whom you so self-righteously speak, in the past century or so! Whatever the shortcomings of human nature, my anartopia would do far better for the poor or the sick than governments (and their corporate hachetmen) have done around the world!
Indeed, with the ongoing global collapse, and its intended replacement with the serfdom of a New World Order; combining the worst features of both socialism and capitalism, I think that we people of good will have much better ways of spending our time than sniping at each other.
Next case!
“Lol, I will not.”
Good. *phew*
Meller, when people around here question libertarianism, I politely defend libertarianism. I don’t scream at them that they’re pawns of the new world order and their evil statism isn’t helping matters, is it!! IS IT?
Meller, this… thing you have with wanting the gratitude of people you clearly hate and want to enslave is really fucking annoying. If I told you that I wanted to kill most men and turn the rest into sperm slaves who will exists only to fertilize our eggs*, and after you objected, told you that you should be GRATEFUL for my ideas because they will make you FREE!, you’d rightly be a little bit pissed off. And yet you expect women to roll over and THANK YOU for telling me I’d be better off as an unthinking slave to my husband?!?
* Just to be clear and because you’re a literal asshole, I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS.
No, your posts are invariably teal deers and I can’t strain my poor fluffy brain for the required interminable attention span. Burying possibly good ideas in the middle of a long-winded tedious essay isn’t a virtue.
BREVITY AND WIT!! (… is what you’re lacking)
You expect us to praise you for an envisioned system in which women still have no choices and no control over their own destiny just because you inserted a small provision about some of them being able to escape abusive marriages if they were abusive enough by your standards?
Wow, you really are delusional.
Meller, your post questioning women’s rights actually did make more sense than your post about private law. If someone makes sense at one point in their lives, it doesn’t mean everything they write from then on MUST make sense, and people must be willfully ignoring it.
This is such an ablist saying. Even more so because the thing it depicts as the horror, people with mental illness having a large degree of control over the running of their facilities, is in fact the best way to run a mental institution if you must have one at all (in general, community based care is better and should be preferred).
I’ll make sure to add “people with mental illness” to the ever expanding list of groups of people Meller excerpts from freedom, liberty, self direction, etc.
I also wanted to add that there are three co-equal branches of the US government, one of which is the judiciary. The notion that the government is being too invasive in regards to…the government…is rather hilarious.
This is largely totally untrue under US law, fyi. While the rule technically is that a citizen cannot sue the federal government unless the government waives sovereign immunity, except in regards to constitutional matters, the US government has proactively waived many of its significant rights in this regard (as have some states). In addition, we have what is called the “stripping doctrine”, which is a legal fiction that allows suit of the state and state agencies through suit of their officers (this is why, for example, the California Prop 8 case is Perry v Schwarzenegger, instead of Perry v. California, even though the plaintiffs are suing the governor not for personal wrongs, but for state actions that would be dealt with by remedies against the state).
You can, in fact, sue a court, police department, prison, etc. in the US. There are certain restrictions on the stripping doctrine when it comes to suing a public official for carrying out duties legally allowed, not malfeasance or unconstitutional, and within the scope of their duty. This means that you cannot sue a lawmaker for making a law you do not like, or a judge for ruling against you, etc. If you are suing about the actual law, you generally sue the executive branch official charged with enforcement of the law.
While it may seem odd and circuitous to technically sue the governor because the legislature did something unconstitutional and you want that legislation thrown out, in practice it is not actually that big of a deal. As a de facto practice, US sovereign immunity is weak as hell in most arenas.
In addition, many prisons in the US are privately owned and the guards are hired through the private contractors.
I don’t really want to get embroiled in the wider debates about capitalism and the state right here, because I have a significantly different set of views on that matter than zhinxy, and, while I would not mind debating those notions with people in other places, having Meller and NOW bleating insipiently would just weigh the whole thing down, but there’s your “basic US civics” lesson of the moment, just for our dear uninformed trolls.
“I don’t really want to get embroiled in the wider debates about capitalism and the state right here, because I have a significantly different set of views on that matter than zhinxy, and, while I would not mind debating those notions with people in other places, having Meller and NOW bleating insipiently would just weigh the whole thing down,.”
And D’oh, I really do need to comment in that forum thread. This month has just sucked for time, and playing with trolls is easier.
Ami Angelwings
No, I don’t care what feminists think (frankly I have a lot of trouble after several months on manboobz into believing that you can think at all). I happened to remember how youall were babbling on how my proposed society couldn’t protect women for the last week or so, and here I offered a perfectly logical, reasonable, and highly plausible process how a private market based conflict resolution/ arbitration service in a competitive environment would address YOUR concerns. I would think that at least you would acknowledge my attention to this, whether spousal abuse is actually the problem youall say it is or not.
Nobody did, and I called attention to a point that you people raised in the first place! That is all.
Nobody got into me, and I couldn’t give a f**k about your feminist pats on the head. If I really ever got any “pats on the head” from you feminists, girlygiggles, I would actually wonder if I was saying the wrong things, and even if I was on the wrong website!
In any event, it is a fine day when feminists can talk about “making no sense” to anybody. Compared to youall , even the likes of Sarah Palin, John McCain or Rick Perry may be said to make sense (to whom, I’ll never know)!!
Ami Angelwings, you ARE sexy by manboobz standards, period! however, as I already said, manboobz standards by my evaluation are those of a cactus or pufferfish compared with a soft fluffy playful and cute bunny rabbit or little kitten! You would, even without your noxious and poisonous feminist ideology, rate barely a 5 or 6 in my kind of society! Want you, AA? I donated porcelain DOLLS to the Salvation Army that were prettier than you could be on the best day of you life without a second thought!xD
Don’t flatter yourself! Modesty and humility are some of a female’s most endearing traits, and those traits are still wanting in you, your capacity for wiggle, jiggle, and giggle notwithstanding. This remains unchanged even if you were to fill the entire page with your girlygiggles xD
Just thought that you aren’t the only one here who can type xD and o-O!
o, and here I offered a perfectly logical, reasonable, and highly plausible process how a private market based conflict resolution/ arbitration service in a competitive environment would address YOUR concerns
-No you didn’t. It didn’t make any damn sense.
The system you describe is unaccountable, unenforceable and essentially lawless. Even in the earliest days of civilization we had some kind of rules to abide by.
*sticks DKM on a planet by himself*
The Federal Government’s “sovereign immunity” is weak! Thank you for enlightening me, darksidecat. I’ll be sure to refer you to legal representatives of those people (including American CITIZENS) imprisoned without charge, without evidence, without right to confront their accusers, and bareft of habeas corpus) in Guantanamo and other Gulags run by the US Military or the CIA–or their prison contractors, if that makes such a big difference.
You ARE on the wrong website!! You should be lending your vast legal expertise to securing the liberty–or at least the Constitutional arrrest–of the unfortuanates held on charges of “terrorism”l; of poor Bradley Manning who was arrested and tortured without any hope of release, even though he has still not been charged with anything, or two wrongful death lawsuits against our Maniac In Chief over the cold-blooded murder of Awlaki and his son, and so on…
Even if you are ABLE to sue the government here, who will try your case? How could you legally obtain evidence for your client’s defence? Who, upon finding the US Government guilty, (lotsa luck) will actually pronounce and execute sentence?
Maybe you could also help the 9-11 Truth movement. Certainly there must be some explanation as to why the three buildings collapsed at free fall speed, why explosions were seen and heard during the collapse consistant with controlled demolition, why there was no interception ordered of the planes supposedly headed for the twin towers and the Pentagon that day, why the FBI seized all available video survelliance around the Penagon and hasn’t released any to this day, how did the military grade explosives GET INTO the three buildings in downtown Manhattan, and others, for starters.
Darksidecat. We NEED a superb legal mind like yours to help answer some of the most important questions in the world today! No private ‘citizen” is allowed to suppress or tamper with evidence the way the Feds have both with the Patriot Act and its aftermath, the wikileaks affair with Bradley Manning, 9-11 and the sundry coverups and lies there, and sundry military atrocities in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. The blood of the victims cries for justice, Sue the Bas**rds in DC, both military and civilian, both legislative and Executive and don’t let Sovereign Immunity, which you say is almost negligable anyhow, stop you!
It is also true that some very bad things have happened to people, both Americans and foreigners, who were too curious about things of “national security” or “counterterrorist” import, but again, don’t let that bother you, after all, we all live in a government of laws and not of men, don’t we? President Obama (unlike those GOP lice), wouldn’t let the CIA, FBI, Dep’t of Fatherland Security, or their sundry bands of corporate mercenary terrorists do anything to you in your quest for truth and justice, would he?
Have fun!
“Maybe you could also help the 9-11 Truth movement. Certainly there must be some explanation as to why the three buildings collapsed at free fall speed, why explosions were seen and heard during the collapse consistant with controlled demolition, why there was no interception ordered of the planes supposedly headed for the twin towers and the Pentagon that day, why the FBI seized all available video survelliance around the Penagon and hasn’t released any to this day, how did the military grade explosives GET INTO the three buildings in downtown Manhattan, and others, for starters.”
9/11 truther too. Huh. Meller, you truly are like Rense.com itself achieved some form of sentience and came forth to argue.