So yesterday I quoted some random Spearheader who described women (well, white women in particular) as “complete parasitical whores roaming the landscape spreading VD like Johnny Appleseed and fucking men over.”
One reader wondered if Mr. Appleseed really went about spreading VD. So I did a little research, and it turns out that it is exceedingly unlikely that Mr. Appleseed – who actually was a real person — spread anything other than the magic of apples. And his Swedenborgian beliefs.
Why? Because Mr. Appleseed – real name John Chapman – was what these days we might call a Man Going His Own Way. Seems he didn’t have much truck with the ladies, according to one contemporary account quoted in his Wikipedia entry:
On one occasion Miss PRICE’s mother asked Johnny if he would not be a happier man, if he were settled in a home of his own, and had a family to love him. He opened his eyes very wide–they were remarkably keen, penetrating grey eyes, almost black–and replied that all women were not what they professed to be; that some of them were deceivers; and a man might not marry the amiable woman that he thought he was getting, after all.
So what led poor Mr. Appleseed to these dire thoughts about women? Apparently the underage girl he hoped to some day get with was more into dudes who weren’t him:
Now we had always heard that Johnny had loved once upon a time, and that his lady love had proven false to him. Then he said one time he saw a poor, friendless little girl, who had no one to care for her, and sent her to school, and meant to bring her up to suit himself, and when she was old enough he intended to marry her. He clothed her and watched over her; but when she was fifteen years old, he called to see her once unexpectedly, and found her sitting beside a young man, with her hand in his, listening to his silly twaddle.
That ungrateful little strumpet!
I peeped over at Johnny while he was telling this, and, young as I was, I saw his eyes grow dark as violets, and the pupils enlarge, and his voice rise up in denunciation, while his nostrils dilated and his thin lips worked with emotion. How angry he grew! He thought the girl was basely ungrateful. After that time she was no protegé of his.
But Appleseed, despite giving up on women in the real world, held out hope for the afterlife – explaining to others that he expected to have two spirit wives all his own after he died. Which I guess is the 19th century equivalent of the MGTOWers today who fantasize about the sexy robot ladies who will eventually, it is hoped, make actual human females – with their troubling “thoughts” and “needs” and “desires” of their own – obsolete.
Mr. Appleseed’s quest to remain alone was probably also helped by the fact that – if the illustration I found on Wikipedia is any indication – he looked a bit like Dale Gribble from King of the Hill. Only much, much sloppier, with long hair. Oh, and instead of wearing a baseball cap, he wore “a tin utensil which answered both as a cap and a mush pot.”
So, yeah, a creepy weirdo who hates women — definitely an MGTOWer all the way.
Oh, except that he actually did something with his life — you know, helping spread apple trees to a big portion of the midwest — instead of spending all his time going on about how all women are whores.
Sorry DKM, feminism had nothing to do with why I reject being soft and fluffy. It is because I am quite literally incapable of being soft and fluffy (and in your ideal case, stupid.)
@ Hellkell – No kidding. Do you think my endless British lecturing about how poor his manners are is sinking in?
I don’t think so–you’re not the “proper” woman to him, so your British lectures are falling on deaf ears. I think he just slipped for a moment.
We could try the same lectures in Japanese? I have a friend who’d just love to tell him all about the error of his ways.
I also know a really awesome heavy metal singer who could do the same, but in German. In fact, I’m sure we could find at least one woman from every nation on earth to point out to Meller how horribly ill-mannered he’s being.
DKM and the Concerned Members of Humanity Band?
Ill mannered?!
I refrain from using bad language, I never miss an opportunity to complement women on their good points, I try my best to accomodate your points of view, even citing a feminist type woman (Ayn Rand) to youall in support of my ideas, I stand shoulder to shoulder with youall in my condemnation of posts that viciously and obscenely insult women (NoMarriage.com and more recently, the horrid attacks on women displayed in mencallmethings.com. You don’t have to thank me, but at least acknowledge that I refrain from joining my fellow males in their particular instances of cruelty to women! I also take every opportunity to complement how lovely I think that women are, and how much I appreciate their femininity, charm, playfulnes, serenity, and empathy! Youall don’t have to thank me for any of this, but don’t accuse me of being “ill mannered”.
Actually, I think that, occasional lapses aside, I am more decent to you than most critics of manboobz. Even those lapses can be explained by how I am sometimes treated inconsiderately, if not harshly, by feminists on this blog! Sooner or later–make that sooner instead of later–I respond in kind.
As far as PFKAE is concerned about her failure to be “soft and fluffy”. Think nothing of it! I am quite literally incapable of loving (or having any positive feelings whatever) a woman who is NOT “soft ‘n’ fluffy”. Cf, my recent statements regarding Ayn Rand. I may admire her ionospheric IQ, but that is IT! Even if my SnF women are often more intelligent and perceptive, however, than most over-educated feminists!
I gave a reply to your query about my favorite women, past and present, fictional or non-fiction, zhinxi, but it was moderated out! I haven’t fared well in answering questions like yours on manboobz. and for that reason, I politely declined! As a rule, all that happened is the feminist hive swarmed to the attack, using my reply to attack me every chance they had!
.
Oh! Meller answered me here on the “name a proper woman” question
http://manboobz.com/2011/10/20/nomarriages-com-part-two-american-women-have-personalities-similar-to-the-horrible-odor-they-emit/comment-page-8/#comment-79126
“Why should I? Just so you feminists could criticise them, and me,for choosing them? So that you could find fault with delightful, charming, and often quite beautiful women and girls, while justifying youselves as women(?) completely devoid of humor, charm, playfulness, sexiness (except on the grossest, most elemenal level) fluffiness and femininity?
Get yourself another patsy!
My naming my favorite ladies would merely be giving lumps of coal the opportunity to put down brilliant sparkling diamonds, or giving paper the opportunity to attack 24-carat gold!”
Okay…
…If we guess, or get close, can you say “warm” or “cold”? And the thing is, I don’t even know where to start guessing.
Because even among the most traditional, demure, “proper” ladies of fact and fiction, I can’t think of anybody that’s… fluffy. This isn’t about wanting to criticise other women, really, it’s about trying to visualize what you want us to be. Because not all traditional conceptions of women are alike, or even all that similar. Can you give us, at least, a time period and culture in which these women were common? A specific one, not a “traditional” or “true” or “before feminism?”
And I think the main “fault” I would find with these women, well real ones and not fictional ones, should you name them, is that you’ve stripped them of their complexity, forcing them into the category of… fluffy… whatever that is. How are we fluffy?
And by we of course, I guess I must mean they, being disqualified from this fluffyness.
“My naming my favorite ladies would merely be giving lumps of coal the opportunity to put down brilliant sparkling diamonds, or giving paper the opportunity to attack 24-carat gold!”
It’s like Rock Paper Scissors, but with women and jewelry! You know, since women are adornments rather than people.
Also, if no fluffy ladies exist anymore, Meller is going to be talking about *deceased* ladies. We might snark at them, but it’s probably not gonna hurt ’em too much at this point.
And besides the past… He seems to think the future will somehow produce sex bots, yet in post-scarcity heaven, men will put on suits and ties, and go forth into post-war style wage-jobs. It’s like a 50’s sci fi utopia, but he makes sure to let us know we’ll be replaced with robots… And this isn’t gonna make it a dystopia or anything. Also, gold standard.
(See, again, I guess I should point out to meller that I really don’t have a problem with gold as money. I have a problem with the state having a monopoly on currency. The gold vs. fiat fights just strike me as a serious waste of libertarian time. We should be ensuring we can let gold compete with fiat in a free market against parallel economies not.. Okay, nevermind. I can only look towards the popular mechanics World Of Tomorrow. With sexbots. Paid for in Aurum!)
“Also, if no fluffy ladies exist anymore, Meller is going to be talking about *deceased* ladies. We might snark at them, but it’s probably not gonna hurt ‘em too much at this point.”
That. And I specifically said fictional ladies are totally fine.
Hear that, Bagelsan? We women scientists are mutants! When do I get my eye beams?
I feel like Rogue’s power to kill by touch alone would be more appropriate for an evil feminist scientist.
Right after we discover the gene to make us all grow vagina dentata, natch. ^^
So, Meller’s definition of a ‘good woman’ is a woman who’s willing to be his complete and utter slave, who bakes, sews and keeps house and knows how to raise children. See, you’re defining womanhood by what you want a woman to be – and if you can find a woman willing to do that, then more power to you crazy kids – but your desires are not universal. Despite your delusions, there are men in this world (real, actual non-emasculated men) who actually want a woman with.. gasp… opinions!
Mutants and sexbots and pomeranian housekeepers – what a future! 🙂
Meller: Taking only one example: It is certainly possible that the first and second world wars (fought at least in part to control oil fields, shipping lanes and access points) killed and maimed as many people in the years from 1914-1945 as all of the wars that have been fought over gold and its mining, shipping, and storage, over the past 6000 years,
No. The wars for South/Central American Gold (irrespective of the search for spices in the Americas) killed somewhere between 100-300 million people.
That’s just one aspect of the ways in which things like the desire to control things like tin killed people.
And you aren’t taking the question of proportionality into account. 200 million people in 1500 was a much larger part of the world populace than 50 million in 194-1918.
Meller: Ill mannered?!
I refrain from using bad language, I never miss an opportunity to complement women on their good points
Wrong, twice. A lack of fucks and bitches is not the same as not using bad language. You tell women they aren’t really women because they don’t do what you want them to. You call them harpies and beasts, and say they would enjoy them suffering an agonising death because they are feminists.
That, my dear boy, is rude in the fucking extreme.
You “compliment” women for being the sort of slavishly adoring sexbot you think you deserve, and refuse to admit they might have any good points (intellect, wit, compassion) if they step outside the miserably small bounds you want them to stay in.
You, are an asshole.
darksidecat: There have been commentors on this very blog who suggested that a forced death march that killed a third, respectively, of two peoples was no genocide.
One of whom was MRAL, the boy who just proclaimed non-whites who don’t know/care about white on white genocide to make white on non-white genocide less worthy of note.
There’s a common confusion that being polite or having good manners is about doing and saying, or refraining from doing and saying, specific things. Wrong. Politeness is about making the other person feel welcome and valued. If you aren’t doing that, you aren’t being polite.
Damn, I made a mistake: Meller says he would enjoy them suffering a lingering and agonising death, because they are feminists.
This is his idea of not using bad language, and being loving.