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Reddit’s TwoXChromosomes subreddit overrun with angry dudes

A group portrait of TwoXChromosomes regulars on Reddit?

As “activists,” Men’s Rights Activists seem to be good at only two things: harassing people, and flooding comment sections of websites with their endlessly repeated half-dozen talking points. On Reddit, for example, the local MRAs have been quite the little imperialists, invading a number of gender-related subreddits (like r/equality and r/egalitarian) and turning them essentially into r/mensrights-lite, which has effectively meant killing them. (The recently started r/masculism – an attempt to do Men’s Rights on Reddit without all the misogyny – doesn’t have a chance.)

Well, now the MRA invaders on Reddit seem to have set their sights on a much bigger target: the TwoXChromosomes subreddit. Yep, they’re trying to turn Reddit’s central hangout for the ladies into a boys club.

2XC– an explicitly female-oriented forum on a site (Reddit) heavily dominated by dudes — has always been a strange place. Though I am myself, obviously, a dude, I used to read it fairly regularly, finding it a welcome respite from all the “sammich” jokes and other idiot misogyny so pervasive elsewhere on Reddit. At the time, 2XC had a (completely unwarranted) reputation amongst the Reddit crowd  as an evil place full of feminazi man-haters.

Then something started happening to 2XC. That thing was dudes. And not just any dudes – MRA dudes. Regulars on r/mensrights started linking to threads in 2XC and invading en masse, downvoting anything vaguely feminist and spewing forth their standard litanies of complaint. Some of these invaders decided to stay. And so, these sporadic raiding parties turned into a sort of occupation.

No, 2XC – despite the growing number of MRA residents, including a few female MRAs – has not turned into another r/mensrights. But at times, especially when the discussion turns to some MRA pet issue, the place looks a lot like dude central.

Case in point: this 2XC thread, expertly dissected by NauticalLittleNet in ShitRedditSays. The story: a woman posts a picture of her Halloween costume on Reddit and is bugged by a rude, creepy comment referring to her breasts (something that happens approximately ten zillion times a day on Reddit). So she posts the pic again to 2XC, hoping for sympathy. Instead, she’s treated to a barrage of comments mocking her for her alleged “persecution complex.” As NauticalLittleNet shows, the overwhelming majority of the obnoxious comments (all of which garnered numerous upvotes) were from dudes, many of them MRAs.

Naturally, this sort of thing – which happens pretty regularly on 2XC – has totally changed the dynamic of the subreddit from something that was sort of a haven for Reddit women to just another subreddit overflowing with obnoxious dudery.

As a Redditor called emmster noted recently in r/feminist, some women in 2XC have basically stopped posting anything vaguely feminist for fear of being jumped on by argumentative dudes:

I’ll be getting downvoted to Hell in the comments, but get PMs that are supportive from women who feel too afraid of the judgment and vitriol to jump in. I don’t love knowing there are women afraid to voice their opinions in a space that’s for women.

Honestly, I think the sustained r/MensRights invasion is what’s taking the largest toll. It’s like they can’t stand the idea that women have a space that’s active and popular, and they have to come ruin it.

And it doesn’t help that, as Donna_Juanita noted in the same discussion, some of the 2XC mods have essentially bent over backwards to accommodate the MRA invaders and to clamp down on feminists allegedly causing “drama.”

In ShitRedditSays, emmster offers a broader take on what’s happened to 2XC

Since young men are a majority on the site as a whole, and a pretty hefty number of them haven’t had the “There Are Places I Am Not Necessarily Welcome to Pontificate on My Opinion” realization, the space becomes less of a place for women, and more of a place to talk about women. Which is a pretty big distinction. And a tricky thing to keep from happening without raising the ire of the entitled, ignorant young dude contingent.

As a reddit friend of mine put it, it all started with the “Hey Ladies, What Do You Think of My Dick?” posts. When a bunch of guys started posting questions, trying to “understand women,” which of course is a flawed goal, because women, being people, have a variety of opinions and preferences, and cannot actually be understood as a group. Some of them were actually questioning preferences on penis size, hence the name of the phenomenon.

My hypothesis is that eventually, it will be nothing but men talking to men about what they think about women.

Not that there is a shortage of such spaces on Reddit, or in the world in general.

By the way, that picture above is not actually a picture of 2XC regulars. It’s a picture of the Huutajat Men’s Shouting Choir. Which is a real thing in the world. Here they are in action:

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Sharculese
10 years ago

i dunno qwert. why dont you google metaphor and then give me a tl:dr lecture on how i used it wrong

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

… Are we arguing about whether or not and how exactly qwert is flouncing? Really? -_-

I’ve been skimming. Has zie said anything interesting yet?

qwert666
qwert666
10 years ago

@ Sharculese

But I was asking you if you thought it was a good metaphor. I assumed that you know what one is as you are clearly so very clever. It’s almost as if your’e trying to dodge my question.

Pecunium
10 years ago

Qwert: Do you think that this (redacting further comment on your merits, and qualities) is what she meant here? Really, Pecunium?

Yes. When I read it I smiled at the witticism. I took it to mean just that; esp. as others have used that device in just that way.

As to the rhetorical flourish… If you didn’t understand it in the simple form I gave you, I don’t know that I can make it more plain.

I think he was using the subtlety, and wealth, English has to make several points about the people he was talking about, and men in general. Points that, by and large, would lose impact if he spelled them out.

It’s sort of the way explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog, it can be done, but neither is good for much afterwards.

As to the flounce…. it’s not just that you said, “Farewell” and came back, it’s that you said you had better things to do than talk to us. Those better things (which were to alleviate the boredom you said we had induced), didn’t last more than a few minutes.

That, my dear boy, is mockworthy.

Sharculese
10 years ago

i’m conspicuously not answering your question, ya. but hey, you seem to enjoy spelling out obvious subtext so lets see if you can figure out my motivations and then explain them to me.

qwert666
qwert666
10 years ago

@ Pecunium

Could you point me to a definition of redacted that bears any resemblance to what you are actually saying here? Or an instance in which “others have used that device in just that way.” As I’ve said this is a new word for me, but your definition of it seems to be at odds with the various dictionaries I’ve been looking at. The statement “redacting further comment on your merits, and qualities” doesn’t actually mean anything, does it? How can you redact something that is yet to exist? Pecunium, in all seriousness, I think you have lost the plot this time.

And I don’t accept that calling men “dudes” amounts to “using the subtlety, and wealth, English has to make several points about the people he was talking about, and men in general. Points that, by and large, would lose impact if he spelled them out.” I think that he merely substituted the word man for dude because he thought that it was a more patronising and condescending choice.

Regarding the flounce, mock-away, I’m glad for what little enjoyment you might find in doing so.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
10 years ago

I’d consider that to be shaming language, basically an attempt to make me feel shame by comparing my behaviour to that of a crying, emotional child in order to shut me up. Bagelsan appears quite adept at using such language sadly, for her, it has no effect on me.

If I wanted to try shaming you I wouldn’t describe (with some rueful affection, I might add) the exact childhood behaviors I occasionally engaged in. The multiple “farewell” posts are almost exactly like a kid’s multiple “goodbyes” — one for each step they scootch up — and while my parents were often kind enough to humor me and eventually follow me up to my room once the crying got sufficiently loud and dramatic and oxygen-deprived, no one here is your mom and we honestly couldn’t care less what you get up to once you slam your virtual door. We’re just sort of mildly amused at how you still haven’t gotten to the top of the steps yet, but still seem to think we’re going to come after you dispensing hugs. Are you new?

Would you prefer the tactic my parents used on me during full-on tantrums? At least when I had the childish pride to remove myself from the room before throwing a fit they let me calm down and then would console me; when I insisted on sticking around and flailing on the ground my mom would roll her eyes and leave the room, while my dad would hover over me grinning and saying “waaw, kick your feet! Pound your widdle fists on the ground! Waaaah…” in a falsetto. That is some shaming that leaves a proper burn mark! I grew out of the tantrum thing really quickly. Wibbling tragically up some stairs is downright refined after that. 😀

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Yo qwert, got anything on topic to say?

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
10 years ago

In what world is ” you’re basically a small child dragging themselves sulkily upstairs to their room, one stair at a time, reproachfully reminding their parents how they are honest gonna run away from home! And won’t they be sorry and miss them! And no matter how much they beg they won’t come back!” a metaphor for “Farewell dudettes, chicks and dudes!” or “Right, second attempt. Farewell.”?

To spell it out further:

“Farewell dudettes, chicks and dudes!” = the first stair

“Right, second attempt. Farewell.” = the second stair

subsequent comments = more stairs. Have you reached the landing yet?

(But now you’ve turned it into a simile, I think. Boo.)

Pecunium
10 years ago

Qwert: When a gov’t document which has classified material is published, the classified material is redacted. So the text will read, “When using the [redacted], one first engages the [redacted].”

One can also find reference to, “futher comment redacted”

There was someone here, who recently said he was redacting his comment on what he thought of someone, so that Dave wouldn’t have to remove it.

And dude… that you don’t see the ways Dave uses English in the same way I do… not much of a surprise. He makes money writing. I’ve done the same. I’ve also made money editing.

You… you sing two different songs. In the first you claim to be less than clueful about english.

In the second you tell those of us who use it, fluently; even professionally, that you understand it better than we do.

Make up your [redacted] mind. Seriously, pick one. You are the arbiter of all that is fitting and proper in the use of english for polemical effect, or you bloody well aren’t. You don’t get to say, “I don’t understand what it means, because it means this.” That’s passive aggressive nonsense. If you have point to make, make it. Don’t hind behind a pretense of either ignorance or knowledge; most decidedly, don’t hide behind both at the same time.

As to mocking your flounce, no. I haven’t. It’s not really sporting. It’s like liming a branch. Yeah, you get a lot of birds that way, but I’m not hunting for subsitence. I’m in it for the sport, and you, sport, aren’t much sport.

qwert666
qwert666
10 years ago

@ Sharculese

Believe it or not but I’m not really interested in having a discussion with myself. If you don’t want to partake then fine, but I’m not doing your work for you. That is, quite frankly, laziness on your part.

@ Others

Anyway I must be going…

*qwert666 begins dragging himself sulkily up the stairs to his room. His eyes, at once, start to well up with tears. This has not been a pleasant night for the misogynist qwert. He has been exposed as a “misogynist”, “liar”, someone “not really that bright”, “a whiny, pretentious language policeman “, a “ a small child “, “troll”, a “smarmy know it all”, whom some find“ tedious”, who prances “around like william butthole yeats”. Not only that but he is woefully inept at understanding the meanings of words as they are defined in the dictionary. Oh the shame of it.

Upward he climbs, one stair at a time. This time, he thinks to himself, I’m honest gonna run away from home! And won’t they be sorry and miss him! And no matter how much they beg he won’t come back!*

Farwell, and goodnight you beautiful patrons of ManBoobz! 🙂

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Well, if qwert is anything, zie’s self-aware. Shame that it comes across as more “I’m a troll” than “I’m a nice person with something interesting to say.” Or even “I have anything to say.”

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Wow. That was… quite possibly the dumbest derail ever on manboobz. Nice werk, qwert.

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Hengist wasn’t actually banned; he was put on moderation for internet stalkery, and then got pissy and flounced because of it.

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Fuck yeah David!

And fuck yeah Nobinayamu for calling it.

And here I thought we’d actually had a successful flounce for once.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

What you need is a dream where you are chasing down trolls by checking IP addresses, then flying around with your personal rocket. That would be fun. >: D

Sharculese
10 years ago

But “real rape,” “rape-rape,” (thanks, Whoopi) is defined so narrowly as to always be something some monster committed. And if NWO and others like him are to believed, still the fault of women walking around with their female parts.

omigod you even sulk off pretentiously. qwert you are the gift that never stops giving.

Sharculese
10 years ago

fuck that’s the wrong comment from a different thread. obviously i was responding to the thing qwert said to me.

holly you are neither pretentious nor sulky.

cynickal
cynickal
10 years ago

MD520N is indeed … Hengist.
Props to Nobinayamu, who called it early and definitively. Your troil detection skills are mighty!
And MD520N/Hengist is going on the ban list.

Aw! There goes my only internet stalker. 🙁
I never get to have any fun.
And by “fun” I mean “[redacted]”

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

” I groaned out loud when I read them. Whether it’s trolling or ignorance or stupidity or privilege, how many times are women and/or feminists expected to answer the same old stupid questions? And be polite and civil? ”

I don’t answer them any more, I just mock the people posting them. Since Hengist seems to be back, though, maybe I shouldn’t mock. Last time he wanted my ID, who knows what he’ll demand this time. A lock of hair for DNA matching?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

By the way, I have no idea what either EVE or barrens chat are. Does that mean that the other pretentious nerds are going to gang up on me and call me a misogynist? I feel like it should, according to the logic used by our latest troll.

Also, the use of the term “shaming language” is amusing me. What is the terrible, evil thing that modern Western women, those harpies, have done to men? Well, they do use shaming language, that’s clearly much worse than rape, domestic violence, or being underpaid for your work.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
10 years ago

By the way, I have no idea what either EVE or barrens chat are.

Boooo, shun the nonbeliever! What kind of sicko doesn’t want to have a second (or third) job for “fun” every night and weekend? You could be spending a bajillion hours in either a fantasy world or in space laboriously building up your social status and/or military prowess while idiots scream incoherently at you. And you could pay for this honor! ;D

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

“And you could pay for this honor! ;D”

I’m confused. Why would I pay anyone to scream incoherently at me when I can just come here and have Slavey and DKM do it for free?

I guess that does kind of mean that I’m enslaving them for my enterainment, doesn’t it? Dance, monkeys, dance!

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

No comment on EVE (I mean that literally, I know the basics but as i don’t play and never did, I have little of substance to say on this matter), but WoW was only ever like that if you were raiding. The rest is just a computer RPG you can play with friends or strangers, who legitimately can pleasantly surprise you. It’s not work to play games with people just because you’re playing games with people!

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
10 years ago

Grinding is work, and you will never convince me otherwise! :p

(I haven’t played EVE either, but I’ve heard that for serious players it literally is like a second job just because it’s so complex and you have to be pretty meticulous about your business and politics, etc.)

MD520N
MD520N
10 years ago

.Dudes and dudettes, sorry it’s taken so long to get back to this thread, but here’s today’s Big Troll Reveal:

MD520N is indeed … Hengist.

Props to Nobinayamu, who called it early and definitively. Your troil detection skills are mighty!

And MD520N/Hengist is going on the ban list.

I literally have no idea what the hell you’re talking about. If you want to ban me, just say so. I don’t give a shit either way.

TsigneH
TsigneH
10 years ago

Greetings, ladies and gents! I just dropped by to pay my respects to this fine blog. I also hear you’ve been harassing some poor new kid, accusing him of switching identities and other such tomfoolery. Why, that’s as preposterous as saying my thick and full-bodied mustache which I’m stroking right now isn’t real! I think you should apologize at once. Right then, carry on.

blitzgal
10 years ago

No comment on EVE (I mean that literally, I know the basics but as i don’t play and never did, I have little of substance to say on this matter), but WoW was only ever like that if you were raiding. The rest is just a computer RPG you can play with friends or strangers, who legitimately can pleasantly surprise you. It’s not work to play games with people just because you’re playing games with people!

I got back into WoW again recently after taking a long break (played some free MMOs from Aeria for awhile). The first guild I joined was run by an alcoholic who would pass out while we were waiting for a random, or who would suddenly scream incoherently at everyone and randomly kick people out for being “liars” or “stealing” because he’d forgotten something they told him just minutes before. Anyway, that was scary, but I got a new friend out of it. One of the other guildies fled with me and we’re starting up our own guild now. There are seriously crazy people but seriously awesome people, just like life.

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Dude, we know it’s you. There’s no sense in lying when you’ve been caught red-handed.

Pecunium
10 years ago

There are things to be said for forensic analysis. I tend to give people credit, but some sort of grammatical tics, and word choice are familiar.

And the name mangling… that was telling. Everyone else was, no matter how arcane the name, properly referred to. That implies an animus, which means history, which makes one look for patterns.

At which point… one has to have been very careful to avoid getting caught.

red_locker
10 years ago

“Greetings, ladies and gents! I just dropped by to pay my respects to this fine blog. I also hear you’ve been harassing some poor new kid, accusing him of switching identities and other such tomfoolery. Why, that’s as preposterous as saying my thick and full-bodied mustache which I’m stroking right now isn’t real! I think you should apologize at once. Right then, carry on.”

I am laughing so goddamn hard right now.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
10 years ago

I literally have no idea what the hell you’re talking about. If you want to ban me, just say so. I don’t give a shit either way.

Really? Really?!

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
10 years ago

I literally have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

Free of context… is this the most genuine and honest statement a troll has ever made on this blog? They should just copy paste this for all subjects. 🙂

cynickal
cynickal
10 years ago

I am laughing so goddamn hard right now.

Yeah, me too. 😐

Hershele Ostropoler
10 years ago

If Title IX really did put criminal trials in which a man is alleged to have raped a woman on the preponderance of evidence standard, I wouldn’t need to Google it. If it were still in force, it would be on the same level of “everybody knows” that the reasonable doubt standard in criminal law generally is.

And that’s a huge change. There are some pretty powerful, non-feminist men with significant media access. Why didn’t Alan Dershowitz write about this outrage? Why didn’t Richard Posner? Why didn’t Eugene Volokh? (Well, this is Slavey, so I think I know why.) I can’t imagine it would have gotten through without a major outcry; people other than Slavey would still be talking about it. Some of the less thoughtful feminists would still be celebrating it.

Of course, “I can’t imagine” doesn’t prove anything. But neither does a trout in the milk.

malcontent:

I feel like this dynamic eventually ruins many commenting sites.

Pretty much. Bitter, angry people with weird hypotheses about the nature of reality seem to have a lot of spare time and a compulsion to share that bitterness and those hypotheses whenever the opportunity seems to arise.

mags:

I know I’m not as fun as NWO and some of the others. But if you come to SF, I’ll sleep with you.

I can stay in New York and sleep with someone I actually like.

Hengist:

I’d like to see what their reaction would be if 2XC or feminist reddits started started crashing MRA subbreddits or other ones that are explicitly male.

Actually that would be quite fun and I’d like to see it.

So you admit that it doesn’t happen. So on what basis is the opposite justified?

(Not just permitted, justified; there’s a difference)

BlackBloc:

Abusers are generally pretty good at not seeming abusive until they get someone invested enough.

I actually tend to think that’s selection bias. Some (would-be) abusers do give out vibes, but sensible people avoid them. It’s only the ones whose vibes are subtle enough that they can develop a relationship who can get to the point where they can do real damage.

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

Hershele: you can look at it the other way – abusers seek out women who are already broken.

Broseidon
Broseidon
10 years ago

I don’t think it’s that funny. You guys are weird.

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

I mean, broken in by previous abusers.

Amphitrite
Amphitrite
10 years ago

Magpie, that’s not fair. Even by that logic, someone “healthy” had to get broken in on a first go around.

Yes, some who chose to be abusers are plain creepy from the get go. Others, very much no. It seems to be oblique victim blaming to say that women put off some vibe that acts like blood in the water.

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

Amphitrite – I apologise for saying something victim-blaming. I’ll try harder to communicate my thoughts. I agree completely that abusers aren’t easy to spot when you meet them, or even when you have lived with them for a while.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Jesus, if we’re such circle-jerk echo chamber, why can’t these fools stay away?

Pecunium
10 years ago

I am not surpised that Hengist is Ion.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
10 years ago

I’m not either. Same childish petulance. Same thin (super thin; translucent really) attempts to appear reasonable and above the fray. Same hypocritical stances on nearly everything with a complete inability to maintain intellectual consistency. Same happy little temper.

What I can’t understand is the need to keep coming back to a place full of nerdy muppets.

Bostonian
Bostonian
10 years ago

It is almost as if Ion/Hengist/MD520N did not have anything better to do.

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

And it’s almost as if he was lying when he said he didn’t care about this site/what we thought.