As “activists,” Men’s Rights Activists seem to be good at only two things: harassing people, and flooding comment sections of websites with their endlessly repeated half-dozen talking points. On Reddit, for example, the local MRAs have been quite the little imperialists, invading a number of gender-related subreddits (like r/equality and r/egalitarian) and turning them essentially into r/mensrights-lite, which has effectively meant killing them. (The recently started r/masculism – an attempt to do Men’s Rights on Reddit without all the misogyny – doesn’t have a chance.)
Well, now the MRA invaders on Reddit seem to have set their sights on a much bigger target: the TwoXChromosomes subreddit. Yep, they’re trying to turn Reddit’s central hangout for the ladies into a boys club.
2XC– an explicitly female-oriented forum on a site (Reddit) heavily dominated by dudes — has always been a strange place. Though I am myself, obviously, a dude, I used to read it fairly regularly, finding it a welcome respite from all the “sammich” jokes and other idiot misogyny so pervasive elsewhere on Reddit. At the time, 2XC had a (completely unwarranted) reputation amongst the Reddit crowd as an evil place full of feminazi man-haters.
Then something started happening to 2XC. That thing was dudes. And not just any dudes – MRA dudes. Regulars on r/mensrights started linking to threads in 2XC and invading en masse, downvoting anything vaguely feminist and spewing forth their standard litanies of complaint. Some of these invaders decided to stay. And so, these sporadic raiding parties turned into a sort of occupation.
No, 2XC – despite the growing number of MRA residents, including a few female MRAs – has not turned into another r/mensrights. But at times, especially when the discussion turns to some MRA pet issue, the place looks a lot like dude central.
Case in point: this 2XC thread, expertly dissected by NauticalLittleNet in ShitRedditSays. The story: a woman posts a picture of her Halloween costume on Reddit and is bugged by a rude, creepy comment referring to her breasts (something that happens approximately ten zillion times a day on Reddit). So she posts the pic again to 2XC, hoping for sympathy. Instead, she’s treated to a barrage of comments mocking her for her alleged “persecution complex.” As NauticalLittleNet shows, the overwhelming majority of the obnoxious comments (all of which garnered numerous upvotes) were from dudes, many of them MRAs.
Naturally, this sort of thing – which happens pretty regularly on 2XC – has totally changed the dynamic of the subreddit from something that was sort of a haven for Reddit women to just another subreddit overflowing with obnoxious dudery.
As a Redditor called emmster noted recently in r/feminist, some women in 2XC have basically stopped posting anything vaguely feminist for fear of being jumped on by argumentative dudes:
I’ll be getting downvoted to Hell in the comments, but get PMs that are supportive from women who feel too afraid of the judgment and vitriol to jump in. I don’t love knowing there are women afraid to voice their opinions in a space that’s for women.
Honestly, I think the sustained r/MensRights invasion is what’s taking the largest toll. It’s like they can’t stand the idea that women have a space that’s active and popular, and they have to come ruin it.
And it doesn’t help that, as Donna_Juanita noted in the same discussion, some of the 2XC mods have essentially bent over backwards to accommodate the MRA invaders and to clamp down on feminists allegedly causing “drama.”
In ShitRedditSays, emmster offers a broader take on what’s happened to 2XC
Since young men are a majority on the site as a whole, and a pretty hefty number of them haven’t had the “There Are Places I Am Not Necessarily Welcome to Pontificate on My Opinion” realization, the space becomes less of a place for women, and more of a place to talk about women. Which is a pretty big distinction. And a tricky thing to keep from happening without raising the ire of the entitled, ignorant young dude contingent.
As a reddit friend of mine put it, it all started with the “Hey Ladies, What Do You Think of My Dick?” posts. When a bunch of guys started posting questions, trying to “understand women,” which of course is a flawed goal, because women, being people, have a variety of opinions and preferences, and cannot actually be understood as a group. Some of them were actually questioning preferences on penis size, hence the name of the phenomenon.
My hypothesis is that eventually, it will be nothing but men talking to men about what they think about women.
Not that there is a shortage of such spaces on Reddit, or in the world in general.
By the way, that picture above is not actually a picture of 2XC regulars. It’s a picture of the Huutajat Men’s Shouting Choir. Which is a real thing in the world. Here they are in action:
Brandon isn’t half as fun as NWO XD
He’s just… creepy and videotapey >_>
NWO is hilarious cuz he has this HUGE BIG WORLD (that changes a lot too xD his worldview contradicts all the time, that’s why I think he’s so circumspect about it xD) that I love finding more about 😀
ANd he’s the ECKSPERT on things! Like our lives! 😀
Actually, I gave it a think, and I’m willing to make a deal with NWO.
He thinks men should be able to make women their literal slaves because men have been metaphoric slaves for too long. Well, that’s not quite right.
While literal slavery is of course disgusting, I am fully willing to be a metaphoric slave–you know, the kind with full control over their own money and home and movements and work–as reparation to men. I’ll be the kind of slave that has total freedom of speech and can get away with cheating on their taxes, the kind of slave who can make decisions about their own personal and public lives.
Out of a spirit of equality and giving men their fair due, I’ll be that kind of slave for my whole life–the kind of slave NWO thinks he is.
NWO, would that make you happy?
I think crashing a designated space for any marginalized, historically oppressed group is just a dick move, plain and simple. If they had created “r/let’s debate feminism,” then I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But MRAs crashing a designated forum for women’s issues is like the Stormfront crowd trolling a website for the discussion of African-American or Jewish issues. It’s just a dickish thing to do.
Of course, with MRAs or White Supremacists that’s just the nature of the beast.
Yeah, Brandon’s just dumb and kinda creepy. NWO is evil.
The hilarious part is that NWO’s various worldviews just screwed him in his enslavement scenario, b/c I’d be excluded as a slave in his world xD
Teh Ami stands alone! 😀
Then I’ll use my awesome powers of CUTE to sway everybody and get NWO’s system overturned 😀
Question, NWO, in earnest:
Is there not a single woman on the face of the Earth that you care about? Mother, sister, daughter, aunt, niece, cousin, friend? Any woman whose happiness you care for, that you wouldn’t want to see made a slave?
NWO, I’m willing to give your whole “I’ve been a slave all my life” thing a fair shot..
in what specific ways in YOUR life do you believe you’ve been enslaved? what things have happened to you that are evidence or examples of your slavery? 😀 and what SHOULD have happened?
And what stuff in my life do you think has happened to me (or Holly’s life or any other woman’s life here) where we would be enslaved if we were men?
What about Spear? Is he a slave too?
Hey Spear, do you feel enslaved? xD
@Holly Pervocracy
“NWO, the things you are talking about aren’t from Earth. They aren’t things that happen. THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE. You are using facts from some other planet I have not heard of to make political points that would be… actually, most of them would still be despicable on that planet.”
Google Title IX, preponderance of evidence. Respond afterwards and tell me I have my facts wrong. The only thing you’re right about is I do live on a despicable planet.
After reading for yourself that preponderance of evidence for men is now the law, will you still deny it?
Ami – As detailed above, I’d love to be just as much a slave as the average American man. 🙂
(Alternatively, I’d like to be a slave to one of the 90% of American men who would be horrified by the concept and immediately free their slave upon being given one. MRAs always seem to think they’ve got a lot more guys on their side than they do…)
Lol, Seraph, don’t bother trying to figure out another side to NWO. He’s pretty 1 dimensional.
before she responds NWO
Google Title IX, preponderance of evidence. Respond afterwards and tell me I have my facts wrong.
Describe for us exactly what you believe the “facts” are? Like everything you believe about this. She can’t tell you that you’re wrong if you’re going to do your usual dodgy/changing what you claim thing XD
In fact, everyone google Title IX, preponderance of evidence. Tell me I’ve got my facts wrong. Deny what you’re reading.
I’m still waiting to hear how you’re a slave btw 😀 You’re 50 something aren’t you? That’s a lot of slave experiences that you can choose from. xD
You got your facts wrong by stating that Title IX has its own police force and courts. It does not. Title IX has been interpreted to include that college disciplinary procedures for sexual assault (which are not criminal procedures and cannot send someone to jail) should be based on a preponderance of evidence rather than proof beyond reasonable doubt.
This is simply another standard to be applied by the existing campus disciplinary system, the same one that handles drunk kids who smash windows. It does not create new enforcement bodies and it cannot impose criminal penalties on anyone.
…Why am I explaining this to someone who wants to own a lady-slave?
Tell me I’ve got my facts wrong.
What facts?
What are your facts that you think Holly will realize are right? xD
Google “Ami Angelwings” and tell me I’m not awesome 😀
It’s more a way of thinking than “facts” NWO O.o
I wonder how old NWO’s lady-slave would be…
NWO, you do realize that colleges don’t actually have the right to send people to prison, right? Any criminal case involving rape is going to be tried in, you know, real courts that go by the whole “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard.
The preponderance of evidence standard is being used in disciplinary hearings. And it also doesn’t get rid of the presumption of innocence. It’s simply a different standard of proof, the one generally used in civil cases.
@ Ami – No more than 15, possibly as young as 8.
Hey my dark master has showed up! 😀
*stands by Dark Lord Futrelle, looking intimidating*
Ami, what form does the awesome power of your cuteness take? Is it, like, a ray gun or something? ‘Cause that would be awesome.
NWOslave
Then stop being a whining submissive if you want to be taken seriously.
My question would be why?
End of the world as we know it I’d rather cut out quickly on my own terms.
@CassandraSays given that he thinks that zygotes are human beings, maybe he should have one as his lady-slave xD
Yeah, NWO, you’ve taken the 1500 train from common reality. On the bright side, the folks in Wingnut Land get to deal with the terrible threat of the black hole in your head.
@Holly Pervocracy
Holly, my post came up at 10:27, your response was at 10:30. By the time you read what I wrote and wrote a response you would’ve had about 30 to 60 seconds in between. You googled nothing, You simply responded with an opinion based on what you, “feel” is true.