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LA Times op-ed: “The faux-hos of Halloween and their SlutWalker counterparts … should be careful about where they flash their treasure.”

Men should also not dress as sexy cowboys.

Happy Halloween! The LA Times has decided to celebrate the unholiest of holidays with a convoluted op-ed from conservative ideologue Charlotte Allen using Halloween as an excuse to bash both sluts and slutwalks. Because, you know, if you dress like a slut – whether to protest rape or to go to a Halloween party – it’s like you’re begging to be raped. Bad feminists! Bad Halloween revelers dressed as sexy nurses!

Here are a few of the more coherent passages from the piece:

[T]he SlutWalk feminists are in denial of a reality that is perfectly obvious to both the women who favor “sexy” for Halloween parties and (although perhaps not consciously) the SlutWalkers themselves. The reality is that men’s sexual responses are highly susceptible to visual stimuli, and women, who are also sexual beings, like to generate those stimuli by displaying as much of their attractive selves as social mores or their own personal moral codes permit. … It’s no wonder that SlutWalks have quickly outstripped (as it were) Take Back the Night as anti-rape protest. Women get another chance besides Halloween to dress up like prostitutes!

Just watch out, ladies, because dressing sexy is like waving a red flag in front of a bull, with your wallet hanging out!

[T]he vast majority of rape victims are under age 30 — that is, when women are at their peak of desirability. …

[T]he fact that rapists tend to target young women rather than grandmotherly types suggests that in the real rape culture (in contrast to the imaginary rape culture of some feminist ideology), the faux-hos of Halloween and their SlutWalker counterparts marching in their underwear — like a man walking at night with a bulging wallet — should be careful about where they flash their treasure.

So thank you, Charlotte Allen, for once again showing just why the Slutwalks are necessary in the first place.

Jill at Feministe has an excellent response to Allen’s nonsense, which points out that while, yes, younger women are more likely to be victims of rape,

Younger people are also the most likely group to be the victims of aggravated, non-sexual assault. … In fact, younger people are victimized by violent crime more often than older folks as a general rule. A person between the ages of 12 and 24 is six times more likely to be the victim of a robbery than a person over the age of 50; about half of people who report being the victims of aggravated assault are under the age of 25. Men are much more likely than women to be the victims of violent crime. In every age group, black people are the most likely to be the victims of violent crime.

So yes, it is true that younger women are more likely to be targeted for sexual assault than older women. But it’s not because of The Sexy — unless hormones and hard-ons are what are causing criminals to choose their (mostly male) targets for robbery and assault also.

So, really, the only really safe costuming strategy for young people on Halloween, regardless of gender, is to dress up like an old white lady.  Might I suggest Dame Judi Dench?

 

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Joanna
9 years ago

“FYI, in the States, it’s generally agreed that calling someone a “retard” is rude and unnecessary.”

Depends on the context. We seem to have a more “sticks and stones” philosophy here.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Joanna, I think what you may be saying is that if you want to insult someone, you should have every right to insult them. Is that right? If so, I don’t think anyone is debating that. It’s the choice of the word “retard”, which associates those people who have lower IQs with being bad and lesser. Like when people use “that’s so gay” to mean that they don’t like something, and they demean every gay person in the process.

But I don’t know, I’m putting words in everybody’s mouths now, so please correct me if I’m misinterpreting anyone.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

“Kids, don’t use the R word, it is totally gay” Colbert.

Joanna
9 years ago

Viscaria, kind of I guess… Over here, those words have become so detached from their original meaning that “retarded” just means “stupid” and “gay” just means “lame”. I wouldn’t refer to a mentally disabled person as a retard though. That’s rude.

I do see where you’re coming from though. I was initially mindful about what I said around a gay friend of mine, but it turned out he didn’t give a crap and uses “gay” or “fag” more than I do lol. However, if a person was insulted by my use of language, I’d respect their request to not use it around them. It’s very rare that I’ve come across that though, and really I’ve been only called on it while communicating over the internet.

I think the only thing, that Irish people (in my observation) refrain from saying is the “N” word. Yeah, I can’t even bring myself to say it. I’m not sure why. I guess it’s that we’ve only ever had a very small black population that has immigrated here over the last ten or so years so I guess it never became detached from its meaning in any way.

Anyway, you probably all think we’re horrible people or something lol.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Haha, I don’t think anyone thinks that, Joanna. I just personally happen to be Canadian, so if I’m not scrupulously polite my head explodes. Lost a great-uncle that way.

/derail

jumbofisch
9 years ago

Did you really just use the “my gay friend” excuse????

Joanna
9 years ago

Lol Viscaria, yeah talk about a culture clash. Derail indeed. What were we originally talking about again?

jumbofisch
9 years ago

Viscaria, kind of I guess… Over here, those words have become so detached from their original meaning that “retarded” just means “stupid” and “gay” just means “lame”. I wouldn’t refer to a mentally disabled person as a retard though. That’s rude.

I honestly don’t think being in Ireland has much to do with it, in the U.S. its not really different. The implication that mentally handicapped people are lesser still exists even if it’s been “so detached” from their meaning (which I doubt its that detached).

jumbofisch
9 years ago

Hey David are my comments being moderated?

Feyline
Feyline
9 years ago

Huh, learn something new every day. But yeah, ’round these parts, it’s still too closely tied to it’s original meaning to be not-a-slur.

Sorry for the continuation of the derail, just felt the need to come back to what I started. 🙂

jumbofisch
9 years ago

Oh wait nvm about the moderation comment. It moderated me because I used jumboficsh instead of jumbofish. XD

Pecunium
9 years ago

Joanna: Words will hurt you.

Imagine, for example, someone making reference to “bog-trotters”, or calling you a “pommy bastard”.

Words have power, and using words that are used to insult others (like “gay”, or “retard”) isn’t kind to the people who are included in the left-handed insult.

I’m not much of one for, “tone” arguments, but I do agree that using insults that slop onto other people isn’t a good thing.

Joanna
9 years ago

I guess it’s hard to explain when you’re of a different culture. I understand your point but I never in my mind refer to the gay community whenever I use the word “fag”. It’s just a word. As is “bog trotter”. Except it’s actually “bogger”. We also use that word to describe country dwelling folk. They don’t find it offensive, they usually go “yup, I’m a total bogger. lol!”. It’s just how it is here.

I remember being in some part of Spain years ago and I observed that all the locals seemed grumpy all the time. It seemed like they were shouting angrily at each other all the time. But that’s just how they are. It’s just a cultural difference.

I will refrain from using slurs around here from now on, as I am the minority in this case. I really had no idea how taboo they were with you guys =/

Pecunium
9 years ago

Yes, fag has a different meaning, but the point stands. There are terms which have connotative aspects which make them hurtful, more hurtful than sticks and stones, because the wounds are persistent.

I’ll wager there are terms you’d not use, even in the most causal of circumstances, because they are potent insults, and can’t be used without that aspect being present.

Joanna
9 years ago

“I’ll wager there are terms you’d not use, even in the most causal of circumstances, because they are potent insults, and can’t be used without that aspect being present.”

Um, well yes, there is a line obviously.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

I will refrain from using slurs around here from now on, as I am the minority in this case. I really had no idea how taboo they were with you guys =/

I’m sure that you’re much more enlightened and easygoing and terribly precious and whatnot than the rest of us here, but yes. Cut it the fuck out with the ableism and homophobia — it’s not “taboo” it’s assholish. Pretty much anything that gets regularly screamed at certain types of people while they are murdered and/or raped is a good slur to stay away from.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Or really, any word that has caused a middle school kid to suicide in the last month or two is probably a no-no.

Joanna
9 years ago

Alright, take it easy. I’m sorry you guys. I meant no harm.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

I’m a Brit who lives in the US and I’d like to point out that although the casual use of obscenities in general is more common in British English than in American English, the terms that would be considered offensive here are also offensive in the UK. It’s just that the UK lags far behind the US in terms of the idea that maybe it would be nice not to be offensive to gay people etc penetrating the cultural mainstream.

Granted that Ireland is not the UK, but I think it’s pretty close to, say, Scotland where I’m from in terms of how language is used.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Alright, sorry back for dogpiling, you just sounded a bit flip about something that’s really pretty serious, and it reminded me of a friend of mine who’s all like “lol, culture differences? I’m Irish*!” any time she acts like an ass on account of her privilege.

*she freaking grew up in Boston. -_-

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

@ Bagelsan – To be honest this is one of those things where I wish the UK would catch up with the US. Talking to my stepmother is a painful experience for this reason – it had to be explained to her that talking loudly about the “lezzies” outside the restaurant window and how shocked she was at their “flaunting” their behavior in public was Really Not OK in San Francisco. She was so confused that I honestly don’t think anyone had ever called her on it in an aggressive way before – my Dad would never make comments like that herself, but apparently he doesn’t call her out when she does other than in a very gentle, non-confrontational way.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

I think most Americans already know not to get offended when a brit starts talking colloquially about “fags” like cigarettes, at least, or not to get specifically offended along gender lines at the use of “cunt” (which, btw, is definitely sexist and much worse in the US than the UK.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

See, I don’t think “cunt” actually is any less bad in the UK. It’s just that British culture is even worse than American culture about shaming women who call it out as being sexist.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

I never want to jump all over people from other countries ’cause it’s not like being 100% American-centric is super charming either, and some places do deal with issues like race in pretty different ways, but I assume that words like “retard” aren’t magically harmless in other countries so much as that a cruel disregard for the feelings of non-neurotypical people is universal.

Joanna
9 years ago

Lol. No, I never implied that it was my privilege to use slurs cos of where I am from. I was just explaining that is how it is over here. I won’t use them on this site anymore cos you guys are more serious about it though.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Well, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a man referred to as a “cunt” by an American — even if it still is sexist in the UK (calling someone a vagina, basically, right?) it doesn’t seem like it’s reserved only for use against women there like it is in the US. The first time I’d ever heard of the word was in a self-defense book where the writers mentioned that it was a popular thing for male attackers to call their female victims… it was the worst thing many women had ever been called, apparently, so the readers were being warned not to be shocked. :p

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Joanna, plenty of people in the US use “gay” and “retarded” all the time as insults (the latter isn’t used as anything but an insult) and don’t care that they are hugely offensive, but most everyone who’s not a total asshole tries not to, and there are campaigns to educate people not to use those slurs. To some extent I think it’s not a cultural thing so much as a “decent person” thing. Even in an adorb European/UK accent the intent is still pretty nasty, even if the word itself remains socially acceptable.

OSHIII
OSHIII
9 years ago

FFFFFFFFFFFFFffffff…OK, so no embeds.

But really, people should just take to responding to NWO with that link until he finally deigns tell us What Women Should Wear.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

It’s used in the UK to refer to men partly because it’s the most demeaning thing people can think of to call anyone, though. There’s something very wrong with a linguistic culture where the worst possible insult to call anyone is a word that means “vagina”.

The UK and the US are sexist in slightly different ways, but I wouldn’t say one is more sexist than the other.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Addendum – I think the fact that people use it quite often is just an indication that, hey, British people swear a LOT. I’m still sometimes surprised by how little profanity people here use compared to the UK in general, or even more so Scotland in particular.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Sure, but that sounds more like “pussy” in the US; super sexist yet applied more casually (and to guys primarily, here.) But hey, I can’t be rational about this — anytime someone swears in a British accent we Americans just want to discard context entirely, say omgsocuuute and nom them right up! ;D

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

@OHSIII: sometimes it’ll embed if you just paste in the URL with no HTML at all. ‘Cause WordPress hates order and reason. :p

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Nah, it definitely has a nastier feel to it than “pussy”, and different implications. Calling someone a cunt isn’t calling them weak, unmanly etc so much as it is like calling them an asshole or a jerk times a billion. It has a contemptuous tone to it, but not in the same way “pussy” does.

Kollege Messerschmitt
9 years ago

To be honest I find this discussion really interesting. I never knew there where such differences in the usage of slurs in English speaking countries alone.
I also remember being surprised when I saw/heard the word “bimbo” in movies or books from English speaking countries until I found out that it referred to conventionally attractive women who aren’t very bright (which is still kinda meh).
You see, in Germany the word bimbo is a slur against black people on par with the N-word, so it was a bit weird.

Re: the “my gay/black/etc. friend doesn’t mind” argument: I think it’s always better to err on the side of caution. While there are people from marginalized groups who don’t mind slurs, it can also happen that they say that to not hurt the feelings of the person who used the slur, for the fear of losing an ally if they don’t act perfectly nice all the time.
Unfortunately, there ARE people who tell them that, if only they weren’t so ~angry~ and ~opinionated~ all the time, people wouldn’t hate them so much and wouldn’t refuse to give them the same basic human rights.

I don’t think there are many marginalized people who would feel hurt if you DIDN’T use slurs against them, so I think it would be best not to use them until they tell you it’s okay (which still means it’s only okay in that one individual case – minorities are not a hive mind 😉 ).

Ack, sorry for the derail. I will stop right away! Promise!

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

To try and awkwardly mesh the derail with the actual original topic: apparently there are some cultural differences with the usage of “slut” within America? I keep hearing references to how it’s not the same in the black community/for women of color, but I’ve not been able to track down an actual explanation besides “because slut is a bad word” and that’s not different at all :p — does anyone have a handy link or explanation lying around they could point me at?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

I try to avoid anything that could read as a slur that might be hurtful to some people in general. I mean, I’m fine with being really mean to people who I think are being jerks, obviously, but not by deploying racist/sexist/homophobic/etc dogwhistles.

English is a strange language in terms of just how much regional variation there is. Even within the UK the slang is very different from one region to another, and the UK is tiny. Of course some Scottish slang is actually Gaelic, ie the words make no sense to non-Scots because they aren’t English words at all.

Does German vary in the same way regionally? You’d think it would, given the history.

Developers^3
Developers^3
9 years ago

[T]he vast majority of rape victims are under age 30 — that is, when women are at their peak of desirability. …

[T]he fact that rapists tend to target young women rather than grandmotherly types suggests that in the real rape culture (in contrast to the imaginary rape culture of some feminist ideology), the faux-hos of Halloween and their SlutWalker counterparts marching in their underwear — like a man walking at night with a bulging wallet — should be careful about where they flash their treasure.

Most users of the ellipsis use it for long blocks of irrelevant text. David Futrelle apparently uses it to remove a single sentence.

This ignores the fact that the vast majority of rape victims are under age 30 — that is, when women are at their peak of desirability.

Rape is a criminal act, and it is a crime most men won’t commit regardless of how short a girl’s skirt is or how lovely her legs. But the fact that rapists tend to target young women rather than grandmotherly types suggests that in the real rape culture (in contrast to the imaginary rape culture of some feminist ideology), the faux-hos of Halloween and their SlutWalker counterparts marching in their underwear — like a man walking at night with a bulging wallet — should be careful about where they flash their treasure.

Changes the meaning a bit, doesn’t it?

Why even resort to such tactics when you quote such a reasonable argument against that point?

Moreover, I don’t think this isn’t Charlotte Allen’s core message. Even if this point falls, it’s still rather hypercritical to say encourage folks to dress in a titillating manner for the SlutWalks, but then turn around and and discourage the same dress for Halloween. At best, they are being a slave to non-conformity. At worst, they are saying that social pressure to dress sexy is a bad thing, unless they are the ones doing it.

Viscaria – Ugh, I hate the “if some girl yelled out at me that I was sexy I’d be flattered” thing. Because they don’t get that it’s not just a girl yelling you’re sexy. It’s:

-A girl making extremely specific and disgusting sexual suggestions and speculations on your body and sex life.
-A girl who is laughing at you and your reaction with all her friends.
-A girl who may, at any moment, flip into calling you a stupid fat bastard instead.
-A girl who may try to grab you and/or block you from walking away.
-Not just one girl. It’s a parallel universe where lots of girls do this to you, all the time, and you don’t get to pick when, and every time you go out you don’t know whether it’ll happen or not.

And if you feel bad about it, ever, even if you’re sometimes okay with it but this one time made you feel bad, all you’ll get for comfort is “gosh, you’re so oversensitive, I wouldn’t mind a guy saying I was sexy.”

Hum.. Oddly enough, I think I’ve had something that meet nearly all of these criteria happen to me while I was cycling through my town’s downtown. A young woman leaned out the window of a passing SUV yelled “I want to touch your ass!”.
-I’d say that’s extremely specific and sexual.
-She and her friends were definitely in it for the lulz.
-I doubt I’d get a good reaction by flipping her off…
-In fact, you might say that 6000 lbs of SUV versus 40 lbs of bike wouldn’t end well at all.
-No, this isn’t the first time that something like this has happened. Although, I will freely admit this doesn’t happen all the time.
-And, No, I wasn’t dressed like a potential cad… For goodness sake, I was wearing a reflective safety vest!

I was mildly flattered… I was also mildly annoyed. Think of this as sexual market place version of spam. Instead of using some bot to spam everyone, someone thought I was important enough to write an individual message. Whohooo, I’m important enough that someone is trying to rip me off! That doesn’t make me any more interested in buying their fine Canadian Pharmaceuticals or sending $1,000,000 to a Nigerian Princess.
And like spam, it’s rather easy to deal with.

I suppose that n=1, your mileage may vary, and highway conditions may change after you receive this report. Make of that what you will, I just thought point that not all men’s reports about catcalls from passing vehicles came from hypercritical situations.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

it’s still rather hypercritical to say encourage folks to dress in a titillating manner for the SlutWalks, but then turn around and and discourage the same dress for Halloween.

I assume you mean “hypocritical”? And… who is saying that women should dress “in a titillating manner” for SlutWalks but not for Halloween? I’ve not seen that from anyone.

Developers^3
Developers^3
9 years ago

Yes, yes… Spellcheck fail. In any case, Charlotte Allen makes the point better than I do:

Here’s an irony, though: The same feminists who promote SlutWalks as a protest against our supposed “rape culture,” in which society always “blames the victim” for sexual assaults, are urging their sisters to cover up for Halloween. Take, for example, the feminist blog Feministing. Here is Feministing’s founder, Jessica Valenti, writing in the Washington Post on June 3, not long after the very first SlutWalk, in Toronto: “[Y]es, some women dress in short, tight, ‘suggestive’ clothing — maybe because it’s hot outside, maybe because it’s the style du jour or maybe just because they think they look sexy. And there’s nothing wrong with that.”

But here is Feministing contributor Jessica Fuller, in an Oct. 19 post titled “Eight Alternatives to ‘Sexy’ Halloween Costumes”: “This Halloween try dressing for yourself, not the crowds.” The eight “feminist” costumes listed by Fuller include Rosie the Riveter, Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor and Annie Hall. (A photo depicts a model attired like Annie in a fedora hat and a man’s baggy pants, long-sleeved shirt, vest and tie: about as sexy as a bag of CornNuts.) If you must don a corset for that Halloween shindig, Fuller suggests you go as Gloria Steinem during her undercover stint as a Playboy bunny and “plan on using the inspired quotes you’re sure to collect to write your own revolutionary essay.”

Wetherby
Wetherby
9 years ago

Kollege Messerschmitt:

I also remember being surprised when I saw/heard the word “bimbo” in movies or books from English speaking countries until I found out that it referred to conventionally attractive women who aren’t very bright (which is still kinda meh). You see, in Germany the word bimbo is a slur against black people on par with the N-word, so it was a bit weird.

I honestly never knew that – and can readily see how it might be a bit weird. Which reminds me of the Turkish film star Kunt Tulgar, who was advised to change his name, but the reasons weren’t spelled out, so he assumed that ‘Tulgar’ was the problem (why?) and changed it to ‘Kunt Brix’. Which is why you’ve almost certainly never heard of him unless you have a specialist interest in Turkish popular culture.

CassandraSays:

I think the fact that people use it quite often is just an indication that, hey, British people swear a LOT. I’m still sometimes surprised by how little profanity people here use compared to the UK in general, or even more so Scotland in particular.

On the other hand, I can’t think of any British television programme that uses the word “cunt” anything like as frequently (and in a high-profile, non-muttered fashion) as Larry David does in Curb Your Enthusiasm.

But with regard to Scotland, there was a huge row when James Kelman’s novel ‘How Late It Was, How Late’ won the Booker Prize (generally regarded as Britain’s highest literary honor), after one of the judges condemned the decision on the grounds of the stratospheric level of swearing. Kelman pointed out that what she thought was swearing was, quite literally, verbal punctuation marks in his native Glasgow – he said that he had no idea of the sexual meaning of the word “fuck” until he was well into his teens, but had used it constantly more or less from the time he first learned to talk.

There was a similar cross-cultural misunderstanding in connection with Ken Loach’s film Sweet Sixteen, given an 18 certificate (the equivalent of an NC-17 rating) for excessive swearing. Loach had been given 18s before, but he expected them for things like Ladybird, Ladybird and its unflinching depictions of domestic violence – but this took him completely by surprised as Sweet Sixteen had been partly aimed at Scottish teenagers like the film’s protagonist. In the end, some Scottish local authorities downgraded the rating to a 15, though it remained banned to under-18s in most of the rest of the UK.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

I remember that particular Booker debate. It was pretty damn funny, for a Scot who was living in London at the time.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

“Changes the meaning a bit, doesn’t it?”
Not really. With or without the ellipsis, it still shift the responsibility onto the victims. The sentence removed acknowledge that the rapists are still the bad guys, which the least you can expect in a debate about rape, not a big concession.

“Moreover, I don’t think this isn’t Charlotte Allen’s core message. Even if this point falls, it’s still rather hypercritical to say encourage folks to dress in a titillating manner for the StlutWalks, but then turn around and and discourage the same dress for Halloween.”
As it as already been said, feminism is not about saying women what they have to do but about saying them what they DON’T have to do. So “women should have other costum options that sexy-whatever” “women who dress/behave as “sluts” should be respected” “Rape isn’t about the clothes the victim wear, so stop shaming us” (btw, it’s called slut walk, but that doesn’t mean you have to come dressed as a stripper. You can, but not all do. Especially in cold places.)

Feminists are usually pro-choice. And not only about pregnancies.

blitzgal
9 years ago

It’s still rather hypercritical to say encourage folks to dress in a titillating manner for the SlutWalks, but then turn around and and discourage the same dress for Halloween.

Charlotte Allen is a fucking moron. The Feministing bit she quotes isn’t telling women to “cover up” for Halloween. The main feminist point for both the Slut Walk and Halloween is that women deserve to be treated like the people they are rather than reduced to their body parts. Go to any Halloween costume website and you’ll see that 99% of the female costumes are as ridiculous as the female outfits in any comic book or video game. You have the choice of going as a sexy nun, a sexy Indian princess, a sexy devil, a sexy ghost, ad nauseum. Jessica is pointing out that it’s easy to put together your own costume, something clever and something that interests you….that it’s about YOU.

As for the Slut Walks, fuck Charlotte Allen and her scare quotes. Our supposed “rape culture” that “blames the victim?” Her entire fucking column is about what women do to provoke sexual assault. THAT is precisely the point that feminists make on this issue!! Everything is about what women have to do to stop rape. When the FUCK are we going to start talking about what men need to do to stop rape?

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

I don’t know why the idea that feminists believe women should have the choice to dress sexy, but also the choice to not dress sexy, seems to raise so many eyebrows. It’s only confusing if you assume feminists are in the business of limiting women’s freedom of choice.

CassandraSays:

Does German vary in the same way regionally? You’d think it would, given the history.

Regional variation is a feature of all human language. In fact, one strange quality of English is that there is basically one main dialect throughout all of Canada (except Newfoundland) and some Northern areas of the states, and it is odd to not have some distinguishable speech communities in an area so large. The More You Know!

Joanna
9 years ago

“Of course some Scottish slang is actually Gaelic, ie the words make no sense to non-Scots because they aren’t English words at all.”

We got some of those too e.g. craic (pronounced “crack”) meaning fun. We mock misogynists for the craic =D

“It’s only confusing if you assume feminists are in the business of limiting women’s freedom of choice.”

My assumption with more extreme feminists is that they think a woman is objectifying herself by dressing slutty, that we are catering to what men want to see us as.

Feyline
Feyline
9 years ago

Regarding the Black women and Slutwalk issue (as a White chick understands it, so take it with a grain of salt): Firstly, there are all the stereotypes of Black women being hypersexualized, sexually aggressive, wild in bed, etc. Their bodies also often tend to be seen as public property at least twice over: once for being a woman, and once for being Black. So they’re likely to get raped and/or sexually harassed for existing in public in a brown and perceptibly female body regardless of what they wear and are victim-blamed because of racist stereotypes, making the clothing-centric-ness of Slutwalk ring a bit hollow for them. And while White women have managed to advance their social standing to the point where “slut” is a safe enough word to take back, it’s still too loaded for many Black folks to want to take on.

But again, grain of salt! I’m mainly just trying to parrot a patchwork of what I’ve picked up.

Feyline
Feyline
9 years ago

Dammit, I proofread, but some stuff still came across a little unclear. Add “promiscuous” before “etc.” and “; essentially stereotypically slutty no matter their clothing.” to the end of the first sentence.

LyssatakeaBow
LyssatakeaBow
9 years ago

lol, culture differences? I’m Irish*!” any time she acts like an ass on account of her privilege.

*she freaking grew up in Boston. -_-

AHHHHH I’m from Boston and I hate when people use things about the Irish once being oppressed as reasons that other groups are being too sensitive about things. like one guy told me “go ahead and call me a Mick, I don’t care”. I’m like yes but that doesn’t happen and is so different! I told them I’m going to start a rock band celebrating my jewish-woman heritage where we sing traditional yiddish songs and see if that goes over as big as a band like Dropkick Murphys haha. People don’t use the Irish thing often, but I have heard it a few times and I’m like “stfu!!!!”