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Are tattooed women an affront to good men?

Probably not interested in dating dudes from The Spearhead

Newsflash from the frontlines of the gender war: Apparently some of the ladies are getting tattoos!

Luckily for us, The Spearhead is on the case. In a recent post titled “Ruminations from Seat 22D,” Spearhead guest poster Lyn87 reported on an encounter with one of these ghastly creatures:

I recently took a long trip for work and spent a lot of hours in the air. One of my fellow passengers really stood out in my mind: a 20-something lass a few rows ahead of me. She is a natural-born beauty in that “launch a thousand ships” kind of way – slim, near-perfect symmetrical features, piercing blue eyes, and a shapely body. She is, simply, stunning. But there’s more to this story than a retired soldier admiring an exquisite example of female flesh young enough to be my daughter.

Well, we’re off to a really creepy start here.

It was actually her tattoo that first caught my attention.

Oh, that’s where we’re going. This is going to be one of those “women with tattoos are whores” kind of story.

She was wearing a low-slung top that revealed a HUGE eagle inked across her chest and extending down under the front of her shirt. And then I noticed her hair – what little there was of it. I’ve always kept my hair short, even by military standards, and her hair was shorter than mine.

Tattoos and a short haircut! Excuse me for a moment; I think I’m getting the vapors.

Few things de-feminize a woman more than buzzing off her hair, which is why it is considered to be shameful in many societies. She was wearing ratty, ripped jeans and far too much costume jewelry.

I can’t believe we let women leave the house in such attire.

And then I noticed the piercings.

Not the piercings!

As I stood six inches behind her for several minutes waiting to de-plane I counted seven, and that was just what was visible. I wondered what else she had done to herself. A tramp-stamp is a given, but who knows what other “body art” was hidden out of my view.

We can only imagine. Some Matisse prints? A mural in the style of Diego Rivera? A reproduction of Michelangelo’s David? One of the plates from Judy Chicago’s Dinner Party?

[M]en like me, the kind of man women say they want – responsible, courteous, masculine, respectable, upwardly mobile – [avoid] women like her even as long-term girlfriends, let alone wives.

I’m pretty sure that women like her — or like most women — are not much interested in men who are not only old enough to be their father but who also read The Spearhead.

[I]a person goes to great lengths to project a certain persona, especially in a way designed to attract attention, it says something about him/her. I asked myself what would cause the stunningly-beautiful young woman on my flight – at the height of her Sexual Market Value – to do that to herself? Women dress for us, so what does she intend for us to infer? I’m easy? I’m rebellious? I can drink you under the table?

Maybe: “If you’re the sort of misogynist creep who’s going to jump to weird conclusions about my character based on my tattoos, my piercings, and even on the length of my fucking hair, and then write about it at length on a site overflowing with similarly misogynist creeps, I’d rather not have anything to do with you?”

But Lyn87 seems unable to understand why anyone would want to send such a message:

I can think of no message that her chosen facade would convey that would be in her long-term interest. In a few years after her looks fade she is likely to be just another tatted-up skank wondering where the good men are.

Wherever these “good men” are, I’m pretty sure they aren’t reading or writing for The Spearhead.

It didn’t have to be this way. In a different social environment a woman like her would have learned to be (gasp!) feminine. She would have observed the older women in her surroundings and absorbed benevolent patriarchy in the air she grew up breathing.

Oh lord.

With her beauty she could have married above her economic station and lived a comfortable life. We can’t know if she would have been happy, but she almost certainly would have had stability, security and comfort.

Hey, who needs happiness when you’ve got patriarchy!

But she doesn’t live in that society; she lives in a “Slut Walk” society, thanks to feminism. When she chose the “Suicide Girl” look nobody stopped her.

Um, who exactly is supposed to stop her from dressing and looking how she likes?

Now she has mutilated herself with enough ink and metal trinkets to repel the kind of man most likely to give her the life she wants, because no matter what she does to the outside of her body, she will eventually want what women have always wanted on the inside – stability, security and comfort.

Hmm. Could it be that she’s not actually interested in the life a man could “give her,” and perhaps more interested in the sort of life she can, you know, give herself?

The fruits of feminism: what a waste.

Only if you’re a narcissistic misogynist who thinks the world revolves around his preferences.

Next up on The Spearhead: Airline peanuts — Tool of they Gynofascist Matriarchy?

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Jenn93
Jenn93
9 years ago

“…women dress for us…”

Wrong.

FelixBC
FelixBC
9 years ago

So, Maria von Trapp?

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Only if the woman in question doesn’t age past twenty-five.

Is this accomplished via Logan’s Run crystals or clinical immortality?

Pecunium
9 years ago

I tend to say I’m not nice, but civilised.

That is, unless one is using nice to mean, “precise, exact.”

I have a lot of, apparently, nice traits. I suffer fools (not all that gladly, but with more forbearance than many seem to deserve). I am kind to puppies and children. I help random strangers. I do these things because they make my life easier, not because I enjoy them.

When I was younger I used to complain, a little, that the women I was interested in weren’t interested in me. I sort of blamed it on them liking guys who were, “less nice” than I was. At some point I realised that (to some men) I was being seen as,”that jerk who gets the girls,” and I realised it wasn’t about me, per se. It was about what interested people.

And that the guys not getting what they wanted were blaming others for that, instead of chalking it up to people having their own interests and hang-ups. Doesn’t make it any easier when I get rejected (or worse, not noticed at all), but I don’t have to worry that it’s the superficially “nice” aspects of my personality. I also don’t have to worry what will happen when someone finds out that, underneath it all, I am not all that nice.

Ravenous Beast
Ravenous Beast
9 years ago

@Pecunium

Honest and real trumps nice every time.

Wetherby
Wetherby
9 years ago

Honest and real trumps nice every time.

Absolutely. Would you rather have someone who specialised in empty flattery, assuming that that’s what you wanted to hear, or someone who wasn’t afraid to offer genuinely constructive criticism when necessary?

This may well be because I grew up in an environment where constructive criticism was the norm, but I actually get suspicious if anyone’s too gushing towards me: I assume they have an ulterior motive.

And often, being constructively critical is being nice – I care so little about fashion that I usually wear the first thing on top of the pile, regardless of how wildly inappropriate it might be for whatever I’m planning to do that day. And if my wife mocks my choice, while there’s clearly going to be a Schadenfreude element to it at some level (which she certainly wouldn’t deny), she’s also trying to save me from myself.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

The whole good/nice/right thing comes from Into the Woods, actually: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA1bThZfB-Y

And, seriously, I don’t want a partner who trades my pretty for his money. I want a partner who complements me, who is strong where I am weak and weak where I am strong, who can stand by my side and watch my back, who can challenge me when I’m stupid and kiss me when I need kissing and hold me when I cry, who makes me see myself differently when I look at myself through his or her eyes, whom I can look at and see as more precious than gems.

And for that it doesn’t matter how many damn tattoos he or she has.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
9 years ago

I find it interesting that all the so-called Nice Guys think being nice is, in and of itself, something worthy of a cookie (or, more accurately, pussy). Being nice is just the bare minimum baseline for being a decent human being. You don’t deserve praise for it.

Aloren
9 years ago

Ozy <3

malcontent
malcontent
9 years ago

I also don’t understand why these men think that conventionally attractive women are subservient and docile. No. It doesn’t work that way. The more attractive a woman is, I daresay the higher her standards will be when it comes to choosing a partner. And I don’t mean it’s about his bank balance. How about questions like this? Is he good-looking? Is he fit? Is he intelligent? Is he polite and respectful? Is he well-groomed? Do we have a connection beyond the physical? Can I put up with this person’s quirks? Can he put up with mine?

Judge me by my looks alone, and you will be surprised when you start pushing me and I don’t put up with it. A feminine appearance does not negate a strong mind or a strong will. And the tattooed lady in question might be a passive little homebody for all any of us knows.

ithiliana
9 years ago

Reading along this thread, it dawns on me that Mr. Original Poster probably would have no complaints about a woman ‘mutilating’ herself in the socially approved ways to achieve the impossible idea of feminine beauty: bleaching of hair, weaves, extensions, botox or eyeliner tattoos, breast implants, vaginal reconstructions or whatever they are, etc. etc. etc. Those would no doubt be fine and dandy body mods.

red_locker
9 years ago

“Reading along this thread, it dawns on me that Mr. Original Poster probably would have no complaints about a woman ‘mutilating’ herself in the socially approved ways to achieve the impossible idea of feminine beauty: bleaching of hair, weaves, extensions, botox or eyeliner tattoos, breast implants, vaginal reconstructions or whatever they are, etc. etc. etc. Those would no doubt be fine and dandy body mods.”

Oh my god, THIS!

In the end, with the constant references to body modificaton that’s somehow “ok” (from what you just mentioned to muscle growth/Viagra for “men”), seeing the OP calling tattooed women “unnatural” is like a Sumo Wrestler calling other people fat.

Wetherby
Wetherby
9 years ago

Reading along this thread, it dawns on me that Mr. Original Poster probably would have no complaints about a woman ‘mutilating’ herself in the socially approved ways to achieve the impossible idea of feminine beauty: bleaching of hair, weaves, extensions, botox or eyeliner tattoos, breast implants, vaginal reconstructions or whatever they are, etc. etc. etc. Those would no doubt be fine and dandy body mods.

This reminds me of an interview I read with an English porn performer who went to L.A. and was told to get an all-over tan. Lying on her back alongside her future colleagues, she gradually realised with some alarm that hers were the only breasts that were normal – i.e. flopping to the side.

katz
9 years ago

Honest and real trumps nice every time.

I wish. I’ve been in way too many organizations where the catty, manipulative, scrupulously polite ladies got the run of the place and those of us who just say what we think got a stern talking-to 😛

LurkerNo42
9 years ago

In a way that Lyn87 guy actually did me a favour! I present rather masculine and in principle am comfortable with that. Feels most fitting for me. Sometimes, though, I can’t help but feel that people think I am strange or judge me in some other way because of that and that makes me not so comfortable anymore. But thinking of those people as versions of Lyn87 and therefore as people whose approval I’d neither need nor want helps a great deal.

So thanks Lyn87 for demonstrating so clearly that I wouldn’t want to have anything to do with people who judge me because of my masculine presentation!

red_locker
9 years ago

“So thanks Lyn87 for demonstrating so clearly that I wouldn’t want to have anything to do with people who judge me because of my masculine presentation!”

Lyn87 is like Phoenix Down for confidence…cool for people, not so much for zombies like him. :p

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

“Some of the nicest people I’ve ever interviewed have been those at the absolute peak of their professions – world-class achievers with nothing to prove and, if you’re really cynical about humanity, no particular reason to be nice. ”

This has been my experience too. In fact, the most difficult people to work with in a creative environment tend to be those who think they deserve massive success, but haven’t achieved it, and are thus angry at the world. They’re a lot like MRAs, in a way, but with success in the entertainment industry rather than with women. (Well, that too – the ones who aren’t as successful as they’d like in either arena and mad about it are the hardest people of all to deal with. Someone who’s simmering with rage doesn’t make a very good interview subject unless you’re actually trying to write a hit piece.)

I’ve heard the same thing you have about Reeves, by the way. I’ve never found anyone with a bad word to say about him. What’s interesting is that I can think of a few similarly lovely people who’re at the top of their fields professionally, and although most of them are better at their jobs than Reeves is on a technical level, I’m still absolutely sure that the fact that people enjoy being around them has contributed to their success. People only tolerate talented assholes as long as the asshole is bringing in lots of money. If you want people to be willing to go to bat for you when things aren’t going as well, you need to be likeable and able to form relationships, and have a reputation for being pleasant to work with.

When I was younger I bought into the idea that you had to be kind of an asshole to get ahead professionally, but meeting a number of very successful people who’re univerally kind and polite to everyone they work with has made me reevaluate that. It’s actually a lovely revelation to realize that being a decent human being can actually work to your advantage in a professional sense.

Why anyone would ever think that being a decent human being wouldn’t work to your advantage in relationships is less clear, but I think the explanation is that those people don’t think of relationships in the way any of us do. Do you have a romantic relationship with your car, or your sex toys? If you see women as appliances that are malfunctioning when they don’t give you what you want the idea that being nice to them might be helpful probably won’t make any sense to you.

Pecunium
9 years ago

The folks in Hollywood that I saw who were as you describe Reeves, were Michael Keaton, Judge Reinhold, Rutger Hauer and Forrest Whitaker.

I spent time working with/for all of them while I was a studio projectionist. Keaton was quick, and genuinely interested in seeing the people who were working around him were well treated.

Hauer was impish in how he handled problems.

Reinhold was personable, and dealt with some really unpleasant things with a sense of humor.

Whitaker is sharp. The dude is brilliant.

Richard Attenborough was shooting some of Chaplin at the studio, and made a point of inviting me (and my girlfriend) to have dinner at craft services. He sat us as his table, and there was some pleasant conversation.

Their were a lot more people who were petty, and noxious. Almost none of them were all that successful, when all was said and done. Being decent is forgetable, in ways that being an asshole isn’t.

shaenon
9 years ago

I work in the comics industry, and when people ask me how to get work in comics, I tell them there are three components:

1. Produce good work that people like.
2. Be reliable (follow directions, turn things in on deadline).
3. Be pleasant to work with.

You need at least two of the three to get steady work. You can get away with being an asshole if you’re really, really talented and really, really reliable, but it’s much better to have all three components working for you.

My experience has also been that the really talented and/or successful people are almost always really nice. I have not met many successful cartoonists or animators who are jerks.

shaenon
9 years ago

As always, we should follow the wisdom of Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse: “All you have to do is follow three simple rules. One, never underestimate your opponent. Expect the unexpected. Two, take it outside. Never start anything inside the bar unless it’s absolutely necessary. And three, be nice.”

Wetherby
Wetherby
9 years ago

My experience has also been that the really talented and/or successful people are almost always really nice. I have not met many successful cartoonists or animators who are jerks.

I know several animators, and they are all, without exception, truly lovely people. I suspect it comes with the territory – the kind of patience they need to do the work that they do (bearing in mind these are mostly old-school craftsmen who barely touched a computer throughout their career) would be pretty much impossible to come by if they weren’t already temperamentally well-adjusted.

And I’ve also had the pleasure of working with Rutger Hauer briefly (I managed a cinema where he put in a guest appearance), and can absolutely endorse Pecunium’s description. Large numbers of people turned up to find the event sold out, so while the film was screening, he hung around outside chatting to them before popping back in to do the official Q&A. He certainly didn’t have to do that, so the fact that he did speaks volumes.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

Oh brother, Ted over at the Spearhead made this comment

It’s just an attention-grabbing device. And it works – at least it has worked on all of you, judging by your comments. I don’t like it at all, but it gets my attention nevertheless. Getting your attention is the absolutely necessary first step for her. That comes before worthless crap like getting you to like her.

The explosion in this sort of thing means that her natural attractiveness isn’t enough these days. MGTOW? Or maybe it’s a response to increased competition from all the media images around now – it must be difficult for a girl to compare herself with all that.

How ridiculous is it that he is putting so much thought into why some random woman has short hair and tattoos? His theory is that women get piercings and tattoos to be noticed by men, and stand out in a crowd. He just knows deep down that surely she did it because of men. No woman in the world would ever do anything except to get attention from men. It’s unthinkable that she cut her hair short because it’s her hair and that’s how she likes it.

I also think it’s hilarious he believes that a handful of MGTOW are having any effect on the way women dress or think. Yeah right.

As far as judging a book by its cover, on the outside I look very straight laced and conservative. I wear JC Penney’s clothes that give off the image of “PTA president/soccer mom”. My outside appearance doesn’t show I’m a liberal feminist at all.

karalora
9 years ago

My brother-in-law had a bit part in Charlie Wilson’s War (his scene unfortunately wound up on the cutting room floor), and he says Tom Hanks is good to work with.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

To add the to discussion about how niceness contributes to success – if a person is nice to me, but not nice to other people, I notice that too and come to the conclusion that they’re not actually very nice at all. I’m sure others do the same and form their impressions of people accordingly. No one trusts the person whose niceness is very selective.

I’m pretty sure that Nice Guys will never understand that part.

Spearhafoc
9 years ago

I’d also like to point out that a “decent man” wouldn’t reject a woman he found otherwise compatable because she looked her age or had tattoos.

Guess I’m not a decent man, then. Like I said, tattoos, particularly large and colourful ones (or ones on the chest), are a major turnoff to me.

I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to have aesthetic tastes or standards when it comes to attraction. The problem comes when you want to force everybody to live up to those standards, whether they want to or not.

1. Produce good work that people like.
2. Be reliable (follow directions, turn things in on deadline).
3. Be pleasant to work with.

You need at least two of the three to get steady work.

What about Rob Liefeld?

malcontent
malcontent
9 years ago

Yes, some men are selectively nice. I had a male friend once who often offered to do favors for me, to drive me around, etc. Then, I came to find out, that he refused to give a ride to a friend of mine, leaving her stranded somewhere. And why the difference in treatment? I could only speculate that it was because she was plain and overweight while he clearly found me attractive. He knew I wasn’t attainable, yet he still put on the nice guy act for me. As for my friend? She got to see how chivalrous he really was.

If I had been interested in him, the reveal of his real character would have killed my interest completely.

Polliwog
Polliwog
9 years ago

To add the to discussion about how niceness contributes to success – if a person is nice to me, but not nice to other people, I notice that too and come to the conclusion that they’re not actually very nice at all. I’m sure others do the same and form their impressions of people accordingly. No one trusts the person whose niceness is very selective.

Yup. I read an interview with some famously successful businessman a few years back (I can’t remember which one, unfortunately), in which he mentioned that, throughout his career, whenever he was trying to make a tough decision on a particular client/potential employee/investment opportunity/etc., he would take the person in question out to lunch specifically to watch how they treated the waitstaff, since he felt that was a far more accurate measure of their character and whether he wanted to work with them than how well they could suck up to him. That makes a lot of sense to me.

Wisteria
Wisteria
9 years ago

I don’t like tattoos or most piercings on men or women, even find them kind of jarring to tell the truth, but I figure that’s my problem. The same way I find it odd that men who aren’t balding shave their heads. I think hair is more attractive than not having hair and geez, aren’t they probably going to be bald soon enough? But it’s their choice and my preference or standard of beauty is mine and not everyone’s.

I read the OP at The Spearhead and what got me is how judgmental he was. If he had just written that he noticed a beautiful young woman who had tattoos and piercings that he thought marred her beauty and he couldn’t understand why she would do that, that would be one thing. But he loaded his preferences for female beauty down with such negative judgments about why she had short hair, piercings, and tattoos, and how because of them, she would miss all the ‘good’ things men like him have to offer. Ugh!

Wetherby
Wetherby
9 years ago

But he loaded his preferences for female beauty down with such negative judgments about why she had short hair, piercings, and tattoos, and how because of them, she would miss all the ‘good’ things men like him have to offer. Ugh!

I imagine he’d be drooling at the very sight of one of my wife’s best friends – who is, hands down, one of the most stunningly attractive women I’ve ever met. And not a tattoo or a piercing in sight.

She is, however, firmly and outspokenly lesbian. Or at least she says he is, but of course we all know that it’s really because she hasn’t met a Real Man like the OP.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

@ Polliwog – This is actually why I prefer dinner dates to any other kind as a first date. I want to see how a potential partner interacts with people who they don’t have to be nice to, like waitstaff, rather than just how they interact with someone they’re trying to charm.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Wetherby: Way back in… ’98, ’99, I was at the first SF con that Alyson Hannigan ever did (StarCon or StarFest in Denver). I was in line to get her autograph, and they’d cut it off a few eople behind me to make sure she had time to get to her Q&A. I was almost to the front when someone from the con came up and told her, ‘You have to go, you’re going to be late!’ She looked at the line, which was maybe ten deep at that point, and said “They’ve waited for me to sign their stuff, I can be a little late. And she signed, and chatted and was basically one of the nicest guests I’ve dealt with at a con.

And then there was Jason Carter (Marcus on Babylon 5). Saturday night, he hooked up with one of the Klingon Houses (there are a few in Denver) and got really, really drunk in the atrium of the hotel. An off-duty cop came over to tell them to quiet down, but Jason thought the guy was cosplaying and told him to fuck off. Luckily, the cop had a sense of humor. He was also awesome in the autograph line, and drew (maybe still draws) a stick figure with a Ranger staff.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

Adding to the anecdata about niceness: my dad the journalist says the secret to being a successful journalist is to be nice to the secretaries. If the secretary likes you, you are much more likely to get an interview or a tip about a story. If the secretary doesn’t like you, you’re fucked.

Also, always remember names, faces and children. Unfortunately, I’m terrible with all three. 🙁

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

@ Ozy – Or, if you’re in entertainment journalism, always be nice to the PR person or the PA. If they don’t like you, you’re screwed and will never get the access that you need.

Of course if you’re nice to everyone you meet just on general principles this whole thing becomes much simpler, and you don’t have to sit there and calculate who you do or don’t have to be nice to.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

PS – I actually think this is one of the few areas where women do have an advantage, kind of. Most PR people and PAs are women (at least in my part of the industry). This means that, as a female journalist, I can hug them hello and goodbye without making them uncomfortable. A lot of them would probably be much less comfortable with a man hugging them, say, when saying goodbye for the first time, or being touchy-feely in general. Since the kind of people that tend to go into PR tend to be very sociable and friendly, being able to be kind of touchy-feely with them can often help in forming a relationship, but it might be a little more awkward for a man to do so than it is for a woman.

Please not that I’m not being huggy with people in a calculating way in order to advance business interests – it’s just my personality to be that way. But I do think that it works to my advantage, and I’m not sure that a man with a similar personality would be able to act the same way quite as easily.

Hershele Ostropoler
9 years ago

My girlfriend has a lot more ink than I do, and as far as I know we’re in a relationship.

Also, I present myself, I think, pretty honestly — at least, I don’t put any effort into constructing a Look. If people who aren’t interested in the sort of person who would dress (talk, behave) like I do reject me, well, that just saves time for both of us.

Holly:

(Wow, there’s a subject way too advanced for the Spearhead: the idea that a woman might make an informed and deliberate decision to forgo conventional beauty, knowing that it will limit certain options, rather than just making some kind of tragic mistake.)

These are people who can’t recognize that women have likes and dislikes.

Newt:

I honestly don’t find tattoos on women to be very appealing and what the hell is wrong with that?!

That’s fine, but it’s a fact about you, not a fact about women.

Honestly, the more men whose tastes differ from mine, the better for me, really. That said, I’m not interested in dating women with piercings anywhere but the ears. I deal with this by … not dating them. And asking (not demanding) that women I date don’t do that.

(Lydia reference removed, Spearhafoc beat me to it)

Ponkz:

now that I can afford it, I feel like I’m too old (yeah, I’m only 28, not that old

Mine was my 27th brithday present to myself. My girlfriend was in her 30s already when she got her first.

Comet:

I have the biggest phobia of needles/surgical implements so no tattoos for me… but this is seriously making me want one.

Oh, I do too, but it’s not really a needle like a needle. I’ve gotten a tat and I’ve had an IV line put in every week for three months, they’re not at all the same.

Slavey:

And how easy it’s been to manipulate women to regurgitate that same message of oppression.

Hm. Can anyone think of an alternative explanation for why multiple women say women are oppressed? Some possible reason other than that they’re all brainwashed?

Raincitygirl
9 years ago

Re: niceness in actors, a friend of mine was Nichelle Nichols’ gopher at a con, and basically said she was one of the sweetest people on the PLANET. If you’re spending a whole weekend fetching and carrying for somebody, you’ll find out pretty quickly what kind of person they really are.

Mind you, I’m not sure nice girls count in this type of worldview. I mean, Ms. Nichols is (as far as I know) straight, therefore she couldn’t have been trolling for sex by being nice to another woman. What’s the point in being nice to somebody if they’re not attractive to you and not going to repay you with access to their vagina? I also wonder if MRAL and his fellow trolls ever bother doing favours for their male friends.

ithiliana
9 years ago

@Hershele: Hm. Can anyone think of an alternative explanation for why multiple women say women are oppressed? Some possible reason other than that they’re all brainwashed?

*sporfle* And the fact that a whole slew of the MRA trolls we get here spout the same lines over and over (“we hunted the mammoth” “men invented everything” “femininsm ruined society”) is clear proof of their…..excessive indivduality and lack of group think.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

Cassandra: I think nice to everyone is the best plan, but if you can’t be nice to everyone, be make sure to be nice to the people who have less status than you and have the power to fuck you up. 🙂

Spearhafoc
9 years ago

I also wonder if MRAL and his fellow trolls ever bother doing favours for their male friends.

You mean his two male friends?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

@Ozy – In general I’d say how people treat those of lower status is the best litmus test of their character. Anyone can make themselves be nice when they have to (well, to be fair MRAL may be an exception to this rule), but if someone is nice when they really don’t have to be, chances are that they’re actually a nice person. So if you’re nasty to underlings and it ends up biting you in the ass…hey there, karma.

ohiken
ohiken
9 years ago

@wetherby, my husband is a 2D animator, he very much liked your characterization. However, I wouldn’t necessarily agree. Hubby thinks himself something of a bad ass, and I’ve known many of his co-workers to be surly, unpleasant and myopic.

Hey, no group is homogeneous.

Pterygotus
Pterygotus
9 years ago

I have not met many successful cartoonists or animators who are jerks.
Counterpoint: roughly every other webcomic author.

I mean, the CAD guy is a creepy jerk, a terrible artist (B^U) and still successful…

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

I’ve noticed that a lot of the guests at SF cons are really, really nice, if sometimes a bit weirded out by the fans. I’ve heard that the execs on some shows used to pass around Bimbos of the Death Sun by Sharon McCrumb as a guide for what to expect. I found the book fun but problematic (I’m sorry, no female character can be fat and happy at the same time?). And the sequel… The less said about that one, the better.

Raoul
Raoul
9 years ago

I was always taught to be nicest to the people who WON’T pay it back, because they’re looking to ruin someone, and you don’t want it to be you.

Of course, I worked in New York, where being an asshole is considered “real” and “honest.” I’m outa there, long since.

shaenon
9 years ago

I have not met many successful cartoonists or animators who are jerks.
Counterpoint: roughly every other webcomic author.

Webcartoonists are the big exception. Well, webcartoonists and Scott Adams, I guess. That said, “success” for webcartoonists is generally not especially successful, and I think some of them just have huge chips on their shoulders about not being the Penny Arcade guys.

Many webcartoonists are delightful, of course, like Phil and Kaja Foglio, or me.

MTR
MTR
9 years ago

Helen of Troy didn’t “use her beauty to start a war.” The men started the war over who was going to get to own her.

Joanna
9 years ago

Hey, MRAs guess what? I refuse money that my boyfriend offers when I’m in a pickle. I know right? It’s almost like… trying to be… independent? I know, your minds are totally blown right about now.

BigKitty
BigKitty
9 years ago

I’m now over 50 so I probably don’t count — but if I had known back in my 20s that getting a tattoo or a piercing or two would fend off the attentions of such entirely disgusting men as the OPoster, I would have totally gotten a tattoo, or two or three.

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

40 years ago a woman with a tatoo was incredibly rare. A woman with a dozen ear piercings, eyebrow, nose, lip, cheek, belly and other body piercings was practically, if not literally non-existant.

40 years ago tattoos on men was still a sign on criminal activity.
40 Years ago piercings on men was considered a sign of homosexuality or “denigrating the race” by imitating “those people.”
40 years ago NWO was a whiney ass titty baby.
At least some things never change

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

If you take the makeup away from a goth girl and put her in pink, is she suddenly going to turn into something from a Jane Austen novel?

Provided they didn’t start that way?
http://www.gothic-charm-school.com/