Pop Quiz: Who said the following?
“The historian can peg the point where a society begins its sharpest decline at the instant when women begin to take part, on an equal footing with men, in political and business affairs; since this means that the men are decadent and the women are no longer women.”
- Oswald Spengler
- David K. Meller
- L. Ron Hubbard
- [email protected]
ANSWER: 3. Apparently L. Ron thought some Thetans were more equal than others. (Citation.) Had this been an actual David K. Meller quote, it would have been filled with more exclamation points.
I wonder how much of that had to do with the experience that Truman had as a former soldier in WWI. He knew, because of what had happened with him when he returned, what the returning soldiers faced.
Granted the GI Bill started well before he took office as President but a lot of the other things that went on went beyond just the GI Bill.
““Show me the MSM talk show.”
Are we counting shows that are radio-only? Because if so there’s Glen Sacks, and Michael Savage could be considered a kindred spirit.
When people want to denounce women’s rights as an indication of decline and collapse, they do not have to rely on internet posters or Scientology. There is always Nietzsche:
“Observe the ages in the history of people when the scholar steps into the foreground: they are ages of exhaustion, often of evening and decline; overflowing energy, certainty of life and of the future, are things of the past. A predominance of mandarins always means something is wrong; so do the advent of democracy, international courts in place of war, equal rights for women, the religion of pity, and whatever other symptoms of declining life there are.”
– On The Genealogy of Morals, Third Essay, Section 25.
The more and more I learn about Nietzsche, the more I dislike him. No wonder the manosphere loves him so much. Are there any philosophers that deal with existentialism that aren’t such d-bags?
Reading through these posts from Meller, as disturbing as they are, also makes me laugh because now everytime I do a “modern woman” thing like book learnin’ or working on my own personal goals (that dont involve baby and sammich making) I will do them twice as hard knowing that it makes people like Meller so uncomfortable 😀 Its a lovely sense of satisfaction.
There is something rather amusing about the idea that my very existence makes Meller unhappy.
My very existence is oppressing him. I’ll consider it a win.
“National socialist” and “socialist” are mutually exclusive idealogies. In addition, the nazis were extremely patriarchal and extremely into traditional gender roles. Learn some fucking basic history Meller.
Pecunium, 5:49p “It’s an interesting question what would have happened without WW2, which saw a regression in women’s roles, when it was over. I am not talking about the roles they had during the war, but the roles they had before. Look at films/books/comics from the ’30s. Women had independent roles they’d not have again until the latter half of the ’60s. Something about, “going back to the good old days, before the war” was really poisonous to that.”
You bring up a very compelling, and very roundly ignored point. I’m something of a student of the 1930s. There is much we could learn from that decade if the collective mind had not been poisoned against it. Like so many things in history, it’s only once it passes from living memory that we get to really question and study it.
First, it was a time most people wanted to forget entirely – a war and prosperity get everyone on the same page and resisting the trend of “out with the old world” must have been almost traitorous. The price to be paid for peace and prosperity was (as one old lefty put it) to cut your conscience to the fashion.
Second, there WAS something traitorous about the 30s in the 50s – the lingering influence of the New Deal. Anti-communism was a great excuse to blow the dog whistle on people in public life who were a little too progressive. If the red-baiters had stuck to the actual commie threat, their power AND their popularity would have been much less.
Post WWII, the Soviet Union not only encouraged women to continue working, but made it mandatory, in a lot of cases. There was no regression to traditional family roles until the fall of the USSR, where people reverted back to the gender roles they wanted, if they wanted to.
1865, huh? What a specific date. I feel like there was some significant change to American society that year… what was it… something Meller wouldn’t like, for some reason… Eh, I can’t put my finger on it.
Second, there WAS something traitorous about the 30s in the 50s – the lingering influence of the New Deal. Anti-communism was a great excuse to blow the dog whistle on people in public life who were a little too progressive. If the red-baiters had stuck to the actual commie threat, their power AND their popularity would have been much less.
And on another, opposite but equal note, it was also about clearing out the old-fashioned right and it’s anti-war and imperialism sentiment. Not just the New Deal liberalism and Depression era radicalism, but the Old Right populism as well. All important in making way for Cold War nationalism.
The Commie-hunters the Neocons and internet trolls suddenly want to canonize and refurbish were just as much glad handed opponents of the “small government,” “free market” Conservativism they claim they champion, as they were of the Left. Rothbard chronicles this side of the sordid mess in detail in his (Flawed, but fabulous and free online!) “Betrayal of the American Right.”
The old-fashioned opponents of the New Deal had to make way for the new Establishment who were inspired to create a conservative version where the deal suited them.
Is somebody being hilariously queerphobic again? xD
*orbits*
Where, lucky for you, Ami is here! Time to take potshots at her! 😀
I am curious. Our civilisation is a lot more advanced and developed than say… 15th century. Less deaths because of a common flue, fluid borders, good education, health care, arts and so on. And somehow Meller and other people like are trying to convince us that we are worse than the 15th century because women get to vote?
Really?
This is quite similar to Mr. Eivind “Rape is Equality” Berge’s latest blog post: http://eivindberge.blogspot.com/
“Does the Emancipation of Women Always Herald Civilizational Collapse?”.
He cites J.D. Unwin’s Sex and Culture from 1934 and claims that “Apart from the last sentence, the above paragraph is a good summary of attitudes held by most Westerners today… It may come as a surprise, then, that the quote is taken from a book published in 1934”. Er, no, Berge. This is a book arguing that women’s emancipation is incompatible with a flourishing civilization and high culture. We are not surprised that its’ from 1934. In fact, I’m surprised it’s not from 1834.
WHY high culture should mean unequal society? What’s high about that culture that still treats people by gender/race/assumptions and stereotypes and not by person themselves?
We can’t argue that equality is a sign of colapsing society since we never truly had it in the ast, so there are no paralles we can check. Most of this books/comments/articles/analyses are using flawed logic.
Yeah, Nietzsche is not all that. AT ALL.
Really, if I had a dollar for every douchebag on the web that quotes him…
I am NO admirer of Joe McCarthy. or of ANY politician! What I was doing, which manboobzers would all see if you had any sense of humor, was updating his quip about how he recognised communists (“…if it looks like a duck…”)and applying it to feminists. I had no intention of getting involved in a discussion of the origins of the Cold War, and certainly won’t be caught dead defending American imperialism in Korea, which had to be, not only one of the worst foreign policy disasters in American history, but Truman’s “police action” misadventure may well rank somewhere up there in the two dozen or so WORST and most shortsighted and irresponsible actions–even on what was understood at the time–of ANY leader of any government throughout history! This was, of course, not Joe McCarthy’s fault–many GOP conservatives (e.g. Robert Taft, Kenneth Wherry, John Bricker, Howard Buffet et al) fervently OPPOSED the Korean war although, unlike these others, McCarthy did nothing to stop it either.
Beyond that, I have little or no sympathy for McCarthy’s so-called victims. During the ’20’s,30’s and 40s, they all acted as apologists for and advocates of, the most dreadful political monstrosies in human history; They–and reds like them–happily continued to do in newspapers, schools and colleges, the diplomatic service, the movies and TV, and countless books and magazine articles in their unending apologia for Lenin, for Stalin, and later, with their support of the equally loathsome Mao Zedong, and ,on a smaller scale, Fidel Castro, well into the late ’70s.Some of them are even working to this day, now screaming against the relatively trivial human rights abuses under Putin in Russia, or Hu Jintao in China, after they were silent–indeed sympathetic–to the planned starvation, the wholesale displacement and exile, and often coldblooded mass execution of TENS OF MILLIONS in the years when communists (and ex-commnists) had a public voice. If a few of these people underwent a little inconvenience because of Joe McCarthy, J. Edgar Hoover, or other’ redbaiters’; where their careers of not being a newspaper publisher, movie director,movie star or bigtime screenwriter, or labor union bigshot–all enjoying the very best that capitalism had to offer–being upset for a few years,
I look at it as an all to mild exercise of “what goes around comes around”. Hopefully, they will face more appropriate justice in the world to come, although communists are atheists!
darksidecat, you are right, communists did indeed involve themselves in other nuisances such as “women’s rights” and trade unions well before McCarthy, and they were about as useless, if not destructive in the days after WWI as feminists and ‘afrocentrics’ are today! I don’t think that Debs should ever have been imprisoned by Wilson (the ur-Progressive, if ever there was one), and I would have applauded his pardon in 1920 ordered by newly elected Warren G. Harding (arguably the most outstanding President of the United States in the XX century), but this business of badmouthing McCarthybecause of his anticommunism goes too far! Reds should have their first amendment rights protected as strictly as anyone else’s, but they were the apologists for and advocates of a political philosophy which is as close to pure evil as it is possible to be!
“…but they were the apologists for and advocates of a political philosophy which is as close to pure evil as it is possible to be!”, said the wannabe genocidal slave-master.
Again, Meller has no connection with actual US history. The American left was deeply divided over Leninism, and primarily went heavily anti-Stalinist. The left was also among the very first groups of people to denounce and struggle against the Nazis. The left was, in addition, they were heavily involved with reducing starvation and violence within the United States (the Communist and Socialist Parties played a very substantial role in organizing sharecroppers and in many anti-lynching campaigns). Of course, as Meller thinks that the pro-workers rights, pro-women, pro-black rights, anti-poverty campaigns (which actually prevented much starving and suffering in the US), etc. are horrible unspeakable pure evils, it is no wonder he is such a fan of McCarthyism.
Also, I now plan to blame any capitalist for any human rights abuse that any other capitalist has ever done, in order to have no double standards. Therefore, all capitalists are now apologists for and supporters of Hitler and Mussolini, pirates in Somalia, and every other bad actor ever who was a capitalist or claimed to support any capitalist ideals. Because we can ignore what people actually believed, said, and did, right?
@dsc “The left was also among the very first groups of people to denounce and struggle against the Nazis.”
Remember, though, that one qualification for subversive behavior in the McCarthy era was premature anti-fascism. If you went on record as opposing Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, etc. on a stand of conscience, you were un-American. It was only acceptable to do so once your country had gone to war.
Where were the two million or so Americans driven into lifelong exile during our first “purge”–the “red scare” you talked about in your posts–in 1918-1920? Of course President Wilson turned the US Navy on the longshoremen and Dock workers in the Pacific Northwest the way Lenin and Trotsky turned on the sailors at Kronstadt in St. Petersburg in 1918, didn’t he?
Oh, and the poverty of the sharecroppers during the ’20s and ’30s that you just made so much about? Where were you when they were treated like their comrades in Ukraine and Bielorussia and starved by the million?
And we all know about how there COULDN’T BE any of the lynching of blacks that you made reference to, for all Black comrades living in the former confederacy were removed, for their own safety, to build America in new settlements in Alaska, Minnesota, and the Dakotas, weren’t they? They were removed in much the same way that non-Russian nationalities were removed from THEIR ancestral homes to build “socialism” in Siberia. There couldn’t be any lynchings if they were no longer there, could there be, Comrade?
It was just dreadful how ten million or so farmers on the Great Plains starved to death by deliberate orders of the Father of the Peoples, first Comrade Franklin D Roosevelt during the 1930’s. After all, food for workers on New Deal boondoggles had to come from somewhere, and those kulaks had too much anyhow, didn’t they?
And of course newly elected First Secretary Roosevelt couldn’t tolerate opposition from other Democrats, much less agents of capitalist subversion and wrecking HIS five year plan, could he? At least three to five million poltical figures, including some whom FDR had worked with his entire adult life, were tried, convicted of crimes against the people, and–as they should be–executed, after torture persuaded them to confess and implicate other Americans in their treachery! My God, We lost almost the entire Pre-FDR leadership during the ’30s, didn’t we?
And then Father of the Peoples FDR made that pact with Hirohito, didn’t he? Any Americans who were worried about consequences of THAT stunt were promptly dispatched to the cellers of the White House or the newly expanded FBI building for summary execution. How dare anyone suggest that American Vozhd (I think that is how you spell it) couild make a mistake shouldn’t be allowed to see tomorrow’s sunrise!
Japan attaked the USSA by surprise on December 7, 1941 abrogating the pact with Dear Leader! New scapegoats had to be found, but the People’s motherland had to be saved! the few Generals and Admirals left alive in his GULAG were rehabilitated and brought forward to defend the first socialist state…
The American people, however, experienced such appalling hardships under socialism that there were mass defections to the Japanese, the appalling Jap brutality notwithstanding. There were even advisors to Emperor Hirohito in the Imperial war Council that if newly captured Americans were well treated, they would fight with the foreign invaders against First Secretary Roosevelt. The Japanese government was so blinded by antiwestern bigotry that the advice was discounted, and in the end, even the two million or so Americans who escaped Roosevelts hellhole were turned back to face certain death by a vengeful and barbarous US government!
After the war, even though first Secretary Roosevelt died, far too many American comrades knew about the blunders, brutalities, and corruption in the late war. They had to be liquidated. Trusty Comrade Hoover worked with smaller Kommissars like Joseph McCarthy to prepare fo antother purge. About another five million perished during the first half of the ’50s, as the new leadership of the USSA established itself. Needless to say, there was no repatriation of exiled Blacks and other minorities during that period, although some of the wartime regulations and controls were lifted and rations were increased for some workers, especially veterans, in those years.
Darksidenight, I could easily continue, but I think that I have made my point! I have, if anything, left out an awful lot! I do hope that this all too brief parallel history of a hypothetical Soviet America illustrates why I can’t take any excuses for socialists (who covered up for and attempted to justified Marxist brutality) or Communists–whatever their malignant strain–whether Lovestoneites, Trotskyites, Stalinists, Bakuninists, Maoists, Schachtmanites, or any other damned virus–doesn’t impress me at all!
Don’t let me hear any more nonsense of my supposed ignorance of history, American or otherwise! I KNOW all about leftist involvement with feminism, civil rights, environment, trade union activism and advocacy! In the light of the all-too-brief horror described above, I just don’t give a damn! The worst outrages of American capitalism are absolute utopia, compared to lives of workers and peasants under communism! Left wing idealists, if they had the tiniest bit of humanity in those years, would have had a very full plate protesting the barbarity, tyranny and misery inflicted on countless millions of innocent people during the last century, in Russia, and later Eastern europe and China!
PS- I’m sorry for misspelling your internet moniker. I know it is ‘darksidecat’.
Wait, when did Meller stop shrieking about evil modern women and start writing fascist fanfiction?
I never thought there could be a worse version of It Can’t Happen Here but I was proven wrong.
Ugh…
whistle why you point out the obvious fails at history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment
Also, Meller is a Hitler supporter. Even excluding the rest of his nazi-esque crap, we can be certain of this because he, like Hitler, supports capitalism. Why do you love Hitler so much, Meller? He had a holocaust that killed millions and started massive wars that killed even more.
Yea, but you said this in reply for someone quite correctly pointing out that not all women are feminists. It takes a pilgrimage to Amazonia for tutelage with Harpy Shrikes (the highest in the order of Feminazi Priestesses) in Man Hating and being a Shrew. It’s only after a woman goes through the final rite of watching a man get casterated and then laughing about it that they are truely shed of their soft and fluffy was and can truthfully call themselves a Feminist.
Otherwise, well, they just don’ quack like a duck!