MGTOWers, mostly straight and mostly narrow, don’t really spend a lot of time discussing lesbians. Lesbians, after all, are not only women, but women who like other women — you know, like like. But recently one of the regulars on MGTOWforums.com discovered the concept of “lesbian bed death” – the mythological notion that lesbians in long term relationships barely ever have sex – and, well, a very strange conversation ensued. Shade47 started off the discussion with these, er, observations:
Looks like the super hip lesbos forgot the small fact that in lesbian relations no one ends up paying for sex so it doesn’t happen…
The, “we don’t need men not even for sex.” club isn’t a banging scene these days.
I guess this outcome should have been obvious since you can’t put a hole inside of a hole. I keep trying to picture that and it sends me in a logic loop like a computer tasked with calculating infinity. I just can’t grasp how nothing going into nothing can create the best thing since sliced bread. …
Shade47 is so baffled by lesbians that he refuses to believe that they actually exist:
Do you guys think women are really lesbians or is it just another form of “look at me” attention whoring? I mean they don’t have sex, they don’t reproduce, they don’t achieve financial success like the gay male community does. In fact I’m not sure exactly what lesbians are doing in their relationships. I still don’t believe they are real. In order for two people to come together there must be a very specific purpose and attention whoring is shallow even for women. They usually only shack up for babies and money.
Drauger seconded the notion that lesbians are imaginary:
What do you think would happy [if] you put [two] hateful women in a home together? Bliss? Bitches go fucking shit nuts if some man isn’t giving them attention.
Repeat after me: there is no such thing as a Lesbian, only really confused women. Women are by nature whores that will change their whims depending on the whim, depending on what they perceive society rewarding them for, i.e. whores.
However there are such things as gay men, they are men who have made a defining choice.
Goldenfetus added some conspiracy theory to the mix:
Honestly, I think the entire homosexual scene is about attention – for both men and women. I’m not denying that there are men who are attracted to men and women who are attracted to women, but I do believe the entire ‘gay culture’ was intentionally manufactured to further destroy the birthrate, with the reward for participation being attention and the approval of their elite masters.
Avoidwomen, for his part, not only accepted the existence of lesbianism; he also predicted a big lesbian upswing in the future after more and more men Go Their Own Way:
I expect to see a big increase in lesbianism as more and more men avoid women. We know that women are far more social than men and they really hate being alone, even having cats is considered companionship. As for sex, it’s possible one lesbian couple is a dyke with high T(for a woman) so she pressures the more feminine lesbian for sex and the dyke may actually be paying for sex.
Then he returned to his favorite hobbyhorses: sexbots and “virtual reality” girls:
It will be very interesting to see how much sex men have vs. how much sex women have with their virtual reality computer generated men and women in the year 2020. I bet most men get laid everyday while women try it a few times and not bother with sex anymore when she realizes there’s no money in it. Women will use VR men for his virtual money while men will be with virtual women for virtual sex.
The Great One imagined a slightly different result:
I think that instead of a rise in lesbianism we will see a rise in bisexuality among females.
When females can’t find a man, they will settle for another female (or several pets). .. These female on female relationships will fall to the side when an available man offers a long term relationship.
Several pets? Hmm. If this guy is right, the future may bring severe cat shortages, sending the price of cats through the roof!
I’m putting all my money in cat futures right now.
Stay tuned for more on MGTOWers and lesbians. It gets even weirder.
I’m not sure why you chose to be a misogynist, Simon. Care to enlighten us? You’re really the only person who can answer that question.
Then all people who are less intelligent than me or are more easily led than I am… are misogynists?
What about people with mental disabilities? There are some of them who wouldn’t understand the concept of HTML tags in ten years (you have the proof that I manage to use at least some of them) and there are some of them who would feel suicidal when the Sea Monkey eggs have hatched. All misogynists?
Here’s the thing, Simon: you were making factual claims. “Red is my favourite colour!” Opinion. “Wrap dresses are the way to go!” Opinion. “Chickens totally fly!” Factual claim, which means you can’t hide behind “just my opinion nana nana” if you can’t back it up. Same goes for “bisexual women will cheat on you the moment you leave them alone in a room with a woman.”
But let’s pretend you’ve actually given your audience here a reason to believe that bisexual women have higher sex drives. You know you can have lots of sex with a single partner, right? And you know that you can have multiple partners without lying to any of them about the others? Because, see, neither of those situations involves cheating.
@Simon:
I’m amused by the hypocrisy here. Whore? I means whatever Simon thinks it means, so if he uses it to describe someone he’s just stating a fact. (The fact that he’s also butchering the English language is of course irrelevant.)
But if someone calls Simon a misogynist, then they need to prove to him that he meets the correct definition. Because the only opinion that matters is Simon’s.
(And again, we’re going to pretend that dictionaries don’t exist.)
@CassandraSays:
Do I chose to be one? What have I ever said against women? I can’t remember!
@kirbywarp:
In the Encyclopaedia Britannica article about rape it’s nowhere mentioned that the scientific consensus is as you said, you can only read: “The psychological motivations of rapists are more complex than was formerly thought. They may include the desire to punish, to gain revenge, to cause pain, to prove sexual prowess, and to control through fear.”
You might want to see a doctor about that memory loss you’re experiencing, Simon. Could be a sign of a more serious condition.
I am sorry… anti-speciest?
People who eat meat are murderers?
People who sleep with more than 1 person are whores?
People who are bisexual are cheaters?
Excuse me, do you even listen to yourself and read what you are typing?
1. Murder: : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
The fact that you want to change the definition and the meaning of a word, does not mean that it will happen. Killing animals is not a murder. You may think it’s wrong, I think you are incredibly idiotic human being who is so deep into one’s privileges that can’t think on the fact that most of the world can’t afford not to eat meat, because it affects their health badly.
So do take that attitude and shove it somewhere, because you have no fucking right to judge anyone how they feed.
2. Whore, unlike the word murder, is more of a social construct, created to name and shame people in order to make them obey society rules, which were created in order to control part of the population on the ground that that part was deemed a property. So you and you friends sound like quite the poisonous bunch. I can call you many things… but whom you fuck is of no interest to me. It concerns you, your partner/s and that’s it. You owe nobody what you do with your personal life and that holds true for the rest of the populace as well. I owe you NOTHING in regards to living my life, and you have no right to judge me, or anyone else who has sexy time. YOU can keep your sex life limited by some superficial thing about numbers and not relationships, but bear in mid that some of us a tad more complicated.
3. There are no real tests and researches about cheating and sexuality (mono/bi), because we live in fluid society in which these things change. People cheat or people don’t It has nothing to do with their gender or orientation but more to do with their attitude, morality and type of characters they are. Combined with social norms and social gender. That’s it.
You wouldn’t be able to find any proof about bisexuals cheating more, because the differences between two people from the same groups is grated than two groups like bisexuals and monosexuals.
Get over yourself already or at least come up with arguments that have at least a strand of logic in them.
I mean, I think there is a point at which enough people’s subjective beliefs form a consensus that we can call an objective reality, but I’m not sure that a survey of bisexual Savage Love readers rises to that limit, Simon, and proves that Kenny G is objectively fuckable.
Also, what personal stories did I share with you, Simon?
No. I said you’ve fallen into the MRM/misogyny trap in part because you’re stupid. That doesn’t mean I think all people who are stupid fall into the MRM/misogyny trap. Pay attention!
Also: I would never call people with mental disabilities stupid. They have disabilities.
Also: Really, Simon? You can understand the concept of html tags — that’s all you got? I totes has a sad now. BRB, crying myself to sleep.
Uh, called them “whores,” for a start.
And are you borrowing NWO’s encyclopedias?
@Simon:
Encyclopaedia Britannica? I thought we were talking about science here…
I would like to say, on the behalf of Reasonable Vegans and Animal Rights Supporters of the World, that Simon’s viewpoint does not represent the views of all animal rights supporters and vegans and that the vast majority of us feel it is rude to call people murderers and/or whores.
Simon, honey, please. A convenience sample of Savage Love readers is as far from a simple random sample of bisexual women as my vagina is from MRAL’s cock.
Also, at least to me, “stupid” implies a certain wilfullness. Anyone can be less than bright, and it’s not their fault, but willingly closing one’s mind to new information is certainly open to criticism.
MRA… you see… that’s how it’s done when someone from a group you identify/like says something you disagree with.
Ozy… nice one. 🙂
@Viscaria:
I would never say something stupid like this. I don’t think that bisexual women are extremely more likely to cheat but… BUT, some things are just meant to stay innocent.
Leaving your girlfriend and your sister alone in a room is on top of this list.
If your gf is bisexual, how would you know if she has no sexual thoughts about her? This feels very disturbing.
Of course you are right on this one. But I never said that bisexual can’t live monogamous or something like that. I just suspect that on average they cheat more often. More options + higher sex drive … why shouldn’t that have an effect?
That’s not irrational, this are just the basic rules of inference.
And I said “opinion” not because it’s like “green is my favourite color” but because this is not something that is proven beyond reasonable doubt, it’s just plausible and therefore I believe it.
Doesn’t seem to be an option for many people…
Even if we were going with the meat is murder analogy, wouldn’t the murderer technically be the person actually killing the animal? I’m not sure if Simon thinks that most omnivores slaughter their own meat, but if so he is incorrect.
Everything on that list is consistent with the notion that rape is about power.
Also, internet surveys done by a notorious biphobe, and a “gay conversion therapy” study are horrible sources for a piece on bisexuality. Internet polls are pretty much the worse survey data source ever. Most social science studies on bisexuality are extremely limited at best. The percentages of men and women who have sexual activity with people of the same sex as well as the opposite sex are fairly similar, based on what studies exist on the matter, bi men are even more understudied than bi women. As small as these studies are and as poor as their methodology is in the cases you site, just looking around at the people we know is not much more likely to get innacurate results.
Admit it, you’re just pulling zir pigtails because you like zir.
Your hatecrushes would be almost cute if you weren’t so vile.
Ah ha! So Simon has finally come clean. Simon thinks that girls liking girls is squicky! Lemme throw you for a loop, Simon. Your GF and your brother in the same room. If your GF is straight, how do you know she has no sexual thoughts about him. This feels very disturbing.
Because cheating isn’t just an inevitable result of having a higher sex drive… it is a moral question. Some people set up relationships so that having sex with more than one person isn’t cheating. Cheating involves setting up rules for your relationship, then breaking them. Having “more options” or a higher sex drive doesn’t matter for this question. You’d have better luck arguing that bisexuals are more often in polygamous relationships, but then who the hell cares?
MRA, dude… we got it, you think Ozy has girls cooties. Move on already, we are bored.
Simon… by your logic, how about your gf and your brother?
Would you leave them in a room alone?
Since you know… if you gf is heterosexual and your brother is heterosexual what are the chances he has the thoughts (or she does… or both?).
You do make the difference between ‘attracted’ and ‘sleeping with’, right?
Because the amount of attractive men and women around me in my line of work is overwhelming and somehow I manage not to sleep with them, though they are smart, intelligent, sexy and attracted to my gender.
Could it be that people don’t sleep with everything that moves (not everyone) and could have relationships without cheating?
Leaving your girlfriend and your sister alone in a room is on top of this list.
If your gf is bisexual, how would you know if she has no sexual thoughts about her? This feels very disturbing.
And how is this any different, or any more likely to result in cheating, then someone’s strait or bisexual boyfriend being in a room alone with their sister? What makes this situation special, exactly?
Ha ha! Nina’d two people! I feel speshul now!
As well you should.
Nina’d?
I is speshul… >.>
Ninja’d of course…
I can’t believe I just thought of this after months of reading MRAL’s posts, but I’ve had strange men spit on me on the street! I mean literally!
The first time, I was eating a hot dog at an open-air takeout place and some college kid spat on me as he walked by. When my husband and I yelled at him, he swore at us and ran off. I have no idea why he did it. He dropped his cell phone when he ran, so we stomped up and down on it for a while.
The second time was an accident. I was walking behind a homeless guy just as he hocked a loogie, and at that moment a gust of wind blew it straight into my mouth. The guy followed me down the rest of the street apologizing. I had to assure him repeatedly that it was okay. Although actually it was gross.
Ah, San Francisco, how I love you!