MGTOWers, mostly straight and mostly narrow, don’t really spend a lot of time discussing lesbians. Lesbians, after all, are not only women, but women who like other women — you know, like like. But recently one of the regulars on MGTOWforums.com discovered the concept of “lesbian bed death” – the mythological notion that lesbians in long term relationships barely ever have sex – and, well, a very strange conversation ensued. Shade47 started off the discussion with these, er, observations:
Looks like the super hip lesbos forgot the small fact that in lesbian relations no one ends up paying for sex so it doesn’t happen…
The, “we don’t need men not even for sex.” club isn’t a banging scene these days.
I guess this outcome should have been obvious since you can’t put a hole inside of a hole. I keep trying to picture that and it sends me in a logic loop like a computer tasked with calculating infinity. I just can’t grasp how nothing going into nothing can create the best thing since sliced bread. …
Shade47 is so baffled by lesbians that he refuses to believe that they actually exist:
Do you guys think women are really lesbians or is it just another form of “look at me” attention whoring? I mean they don’t have sex, they don’t reproduce, they don’t achieve financial success like the gay male community does. In fact I’m not sure exactly what lesbians are doing in their relationships. I still don’t believe they are real. In order for two people to come together there must be a very specific purpose and attention whoring is shallow even for women. They usually only shack up for babies and money.
Drauger seconded the notion that lesbians are imaginary:
What do you think would happy [if] you put [two] hateful women in a home together? Bliss? Bitches go fucking shit nuts if some man isn’t giving them attention.
Repeat after me: there is no such thing as a Lesbian, only really confused women. Women are by nature whores that will change their whims depending on the whim, depending on what they perceive society rewarding them for, i.e. whores.
However there are such things as gay men, they are men who have made a defining choice.
Goldenfetus added some conspiracy theory to the mix:
Honestly, I think the entire homosexual scene is about attention – for both men and women. I’m not denying that there are men who are attracted to men and women who are attracted to women, but I do believe the entire ‘gay culture’ was intentionally manufactured to further destroy the birthrate, with the reward for participation being attention and the approval of their elite masters.
Avoidwomen, for his part, not only accepted the existence of lesbianism; he also predicted a big lesbian upswing in the future after more and more men Go Their Own Way:
I expect to see a big increase in lesbianism as more and more men avoid women. We know that women are far more social than men and they really hate being alone, even having cats is considered companionship. As for sex, it’s possible one lesbian couple is a dyke with high T(for a woman) so she pressures the more feminine lesbian for sex and the dyke may actually be paying for sex.
Then he returned to his favorite hobbyhorses: sexbots and “virtual reality” girls:
It will be very interesting to see how much sex men have vs. how much sex women have with their virtual reality computer generated men and women in the year 2020. I bet most men get laid everyday while women try it a few times and not bother with sex anymore when she realizes there’s no money in it. Women will use VR men for his virtual money while men will be with virtual women for virtual sex.
The Great One imagined a slightly different result:
I think that instead of a rise in lesbianism we will see a rise in bisexuality among females.
When females can’t find a man, they will settle for another female (or several pets). .. These female on female relationships will fall to the side when an available man offers a long term relationship.
Several pets? Hmm. If this guy is right, the future may bring severe cat shortages, sending the price of cats through the roof!
I’m putting all my money in cat futures right now.
Stay tuned for more on MGTOWers and lesbians. It gets even weirder.
Brandon… I will bite.
What does misogyny means? Provided you are online, you have access to google. However, here you go:
misogyny (mɪˈsɒdʒɪnɪ, maɪ-)
hatred of women
[C17: from Greek, from miso- + gunē woman]
From here, I am sure, you will be able to place things easily: calling women slurs on the ground their are women – misogyny (like you have an example, with the word slut).
Brandon knows people who liked the Dr. Pepper 10 ads. They also, apparently, like guys who secretly tape sex and are constantly ranting about false rape accusations and the gold standard. These must be highly unusual individuals.
And his girlfriend just luuuuurves being talked down to. Hi, Ashley!
Perhaps Brandon has discovered the secret of human cloning, and has figured out how to make female clones of himself.
Sorry, I mean they are*
@Eneya: But I like sluts. So my attitude is non-hostile towards them.
Brandon wrote, “And who gets to determine the attitude? Scores of feminists found the Dr Pepper 10 ads to be misogynistic, while many of my female friends thought it was funny, light-hearted and poked fun at both men and women.”
So, are any of your female friends feminist? “Woman” and “feminist” don’t mean the same thing.
I kinda liked the Dr. Pepper ad… up until the bit where it goes “not for women”. I didn’t think that was really necessary.
See Brandon, it does not matter that you like the term. The word has a definition. It has social context. Also it is a slur. It does not have ANY other meaning that being insulting, degrading and devaluing towards a person, towards a woman.
Will you call your mother/sister/daughter a slut as a way of approval? Would you like it if you father comments that Ashley is a slut infront of you? Wold you one day hug your ten-years-old daughter and tell her what a slut she is?
Please, answer me, because I am curious.
Or you are somehow arguing about “take-bake-the-word” one situation at a time and the best place you can come up with is a blog which comments on the misogyny (I already explained what that is) from people who… well, hate women?
If that’s it… subtle… dude, subtle.
Even more… why do you feel the need to comment on one’s sexual life? Why even thinking about how many sexual partners did one person have? Nothing better to do with your time?
Next, I find the ad juvenile. I have friends who laughed at it, but most did just role their eyes, because… seeeeeeen thaaaaaat million times already…. moving on.
And Brandon leads off with a “legalistic nitpick” (demanding vs asking) and follows closely with “where is the line between” misogyny and non-misogyny. You just want a nice bright line to follow, that neatly defines the margins, don’t you? Marcotte can really nail things sometimes.
But yes, let’s ask Brandon how misogyny is defined, from his vast experience.
If anyone really feels the need to comment on how many sexual partners someone has had why can’t they just use the word promiscuous? Still a little judgy, but far less offensive than the alternatives.
Or they could just admit that it’s none of their business, that would work too.
I’m not sure if I’m more annoyed that Dr. Pepper Ten thinks women don’t like action movies or men don’t like pictures of fuzzy animals.
I can’t help but wonder what inspired them to choose the MGTOW acronym in the first place, given that they do not in fact appear to be planning to go their own way any time soon. Who knew that so many sexist bigots were Stevie Nicks fans?
Maybe it’s Buckingham’s tendency to whinge that appeals to them.
Actually, Brandon, if you can’t work it out for yourself, ‘feminists say so’ is a pretty good rule of thumb to tell if something is misogynistic. 😉
And thank you ithiliana for reading my mind, way back, and expressing what I couldn’t put into words.
Oh Simon. I can’t speak for every bisexual woman in the world, but for myself, I make a point of telling potential partners on the first or second date about my sexual and romantic preferences–because I wouldn’t want to be with someone who was uncomfortable with that. I would certainly not want to be with someone who thought my sexual orientation made me a risk for abusing disadvantaged people. These are deeply hurtful ideas, and I can’t stop someone from thinking them, but I’m certainly not going to voluntarily attach myself to someone who holds them. But you’re right, it’s possible that you might date a bi woman and not know. I do hope that never happens.
I have a simple solution to Simon’s theoretical bisexual girlfriend problem. Simon, all you have to do is talk to any woman you’re interested in dating about your feelings about bisexuals. Any woman who’s actually bisexual will then either out herself (and possibly yell at you, but oh well, that’s the price you pay), or simply refuse to date you. Problem solved! All you have to do is be more open about the fact that you’re a bigot. Things are easier for everyone that way.
@Simon: re this world that you find so horrifying.
Here are some statistics presented by one of the experts on my campus about the situation for GLBT people in the United States: she and I are trying to get a Safe Spaces Program started on our very rural, very backward university.
what GLBT people face on a daily basis, compared to straight people:
· 28% drop out of school because they feel unsafe
· 80% anti-gay violence goes unreported (fear of outing)
· 4x more likely to commit suicide
· 7x more likely to be a victim of a hate crime
· 85% LGBT report being bullied some time during school/college
· 26x a day hear anti-gay slurs
· 75% of people committing hate crimes are under 30 – majority are in school/college environment
I suppose using CassandraSays’ method will also turn off a number of straight girls, Simon, but I can’t imagine you’d want to be with someone who finds your beliefs repellent, right?
@Eneya: Well for one, my mother isn’t a slut…so by definition, she can’t be one. I don’t have daughters or sisters. So I can’t say.
Brandon, you don’t even have any imagination? Let’s make your daughter hypothetical: would you call her a slut?
@Magpie: “feminists say so” is the worst “rule of thumb” ever. I don’t base my decisions and actions based on what a group of people will think of me.
We know, Brandon, we know. If it’s not All About You, you’re not interested.
Why do you come here?
You mean, Brandon doesn’t KNOW his mother’s a slut. He doesn’t necessarily know what she got up to before he was born. Even moms sometimes have promiscuous sex. 🙂
Maybe Brandon went back in time and implanted a tracking device in his mother to make sure she wasn’t sleeping around. I mean he thinks filming women having sex without their consent is OK, so why not?
Simon, people like you are why I don’t usually identify myself as bisexual.