MGTOWers, mostly straight and mostly narrow, don’t really spend a lot of time discussing lesbians. Lesbians, after all, are not only women, but women who like other women — you know, like like. But recently one of the regulars on MGTOWforums.com discovered the concept of “lesbian bed death” – the mythological notion that lesbians in long term relationships barely ever have sex – and, well, a very strange conversation ensued. Shade47 started off the discussion with these, er, observations:
Looks like the super hip lesbos forgot the small fact that in lesbian relations no one ends up paying for sex so it doesn’t happen…
The, “we don’t need men not even for sex.” club isn’t a banging scene these days.
I guess this outcome should have been obvious since you can’t put a hole inside of a hole. I keep trying to picture that and it sends me in a logic loop like a computer tasked with calculating infinity. I just can’t grasp how nothing going into nothing can create the best thing since sliced bread. …
Shade47 is so baffled by lesbians that he refuses to believe that they actually exist:
Do you guys think women are really lesbians or is it just another form of “look at me” attention whoring? I mean they don’t have sex, they don’t reproduce, they don’t achieve financial success like the gay male community does. In fact I’m not sure exactly what lesbians are doing in their relationships. I still don’t believe they are real. In order for two people to come together there must be a very specific purpose and attention whoring is shallow even for women. They usually only shack up for babies and money.
Drauger seconded the notion that lesbians are imaginary:
What do you think would happy [if] you put [two] hateful women in a home together? Bliss? Bitches go fucking shit nuts if some man isn’t giving them attention.
Repeat after me: there is no such thing as a Lesbian, only really confused women. Women are by nature whores that will change their whims depending on the whim, depending on what they perceive society rewarding them for, i.e. whores.
However there are such things as gay men, they are men who have made a defining choice.
Goldenfetus added some conspiracy theory to the mix:
Honestly, I think the entire homosexual scene is about attention – for both men and women. I’m not denying that there are men who are attracted to men and women who are attracted to women, but I do believe the entire ‘gay culture’ was intentionally manufactured to further destroy the birthrate, with the reward for participation being attention and the approval of their elite masters.
Avoidwomen, for his part, not only accepted the existence of lesbianism; he also predicted a big lesbian upswing in the future after more and more men Go Their Own Way:
I expect to see a big increase in lesbianism as more and more men avoid women. We know that women are far more social than men and they really hate being alone, even having cats is considered companionship. As for sex, it’s possible one lesbian couple is a dyke with high T(for a woman) so she pressures the more feminine lesbian for sex and the dyke may actually be paying for sex.
Then he returned to his favorite hobbyhorses: sexbots and “virtual reality” girls:
It will be very interesting to see how much sex men have vs. how much sex women have with their virtual reality computer generated men and women in the year 2020. I bet most men get laid everyday while women try it a few times and not bother with sex anymore when she realizes there’s no money in it. Women will use VR men for his virtual money while men will be with virtual women for virtual sex.
The Great One imagined a slightly different result:
I think that instead of a rise in lesbianism we will see a rise in bisexuality among females.
When females can’t find a man, they will settle for another female (or several pets). .. These female on female relationships will fall to the side when an available man offers a long term relationship.
Several pets? Hmm. If this guy is right, the future may bring severe cat shortages, sending the price of cats through the roof!
I’m putting all my money in cat futures right now.
Stay tuned for more on MGTOWers and lesbians. It gets even weirder.
To be fair, according to the study in whatever textbook it was that I used, out of the groups surveyed, lesbians reported the lowest frequency of sexual activity. I don’t remember all the groups, but it was at least gay men, lesbians, and straight people.
Just throwing that out there since it was the topic of the op. But even if they have less sex, they still have it. I could speculate why they do it less, but not being a lesbian I have no clue.
Oh well. I know they exist. I have lesbian friends. And I get it …I’m asexual, so folks are always claiming I don’t exist either. Usually it’s guys who want to bone me. For some reason a sexually unavailable woman is super threatening to misogynists.
I see, he doesn’t like bisexual women because he can’t patronize them.
Also, that sounds waaay too much like he’s going into the other room and jacking off over his sister.
“For some reason a sexually unavailable woman is super threatening to misogynists.”
Especially it seems, for Men Who Just Won’t Really Go Their Own Way.
FTFMRAL
How much sex would women have with their perfect virtual men? That’s not a question I’ve heard before! I guess it would depend on how much verisimilitude said artificial man had. Could they converse normally, indistinguishably from a meat man? Would they have personalities? Hobbies?
Assuming the existence of virtual men, who are both fairly indistinguishable from a meat-man, and capable of being everything that the lady who ordered/built them wants in a man — somehow I don’t think this jackass would accept just how much sex future women who swung that way would be having with their VirtuaDudes.
…Because he can’t believe women like having sex — like, A LOT — because then he’d have to accept that the women he pursues (excuse me, “deserves” < *retch* >) don’t want to have sex with him.
@Shora:
I don’t think that women who have sex are disgusting, or at least I don’t want to single them out.
Sex is simply disgusting, because the desire for it can become pretty strong, yet it’s not one of those simple basic needs like hunger or sleep, which are necessary for the survival of the individual (on which higher & more subtle functions are grounded). Hunger and the need for sleep also feel more physical, less part of the self as sexual desire.
Like pain, that you want to make go away, feels not like a part of the self.
Also we can sleep or eat perfectly without other humans but for sex they play a very important role. Yet it gets even worse, because it’s not like the more subtle needs like companionship, social interaction, where we look for features of the mind in other humans, it’s the body and that’s it.
Also the more subtle wants can be satisfied in hundreds of ways, if you are bored you can play chess, read a book or go outside etc. But sexual desire makes you want to do very special things, e. g. you want to have sex with a certain gender. So it’s not like “what nice activity could I do now?” but more like someone pulling the strings inside your brain. And as I said, it’s much worse than hunger or the need to sleep because it feels more as a part of the self and it’s not needed for ones survival (just for the species, and that makes it even worse, because you feel tricked).
Yet it gets even worse, because it’s not like the more subtle needs like companionship, social interaction, where we look for features of the mind in other humans, it’s the body and that’s it.
Speak for yourself, guy.
So basically you have issues with sex, Simon, and you’re attempting to displace your discomfort with the whole thing onto other people.
This is your internal issue, and it’s really not appropriate to go around calling other people whores just because you’re having some internal philosophical struggles with your own sexuality.
Well, it’s not like these idiots would see women as people. Women are some kind of exotic and dangerous Dungeons&Dragons/videogame monster that you have to use special attacks upon, and if you defeat them, using just the right combinations of complicated rote maneuvers, they will drop a sexual encounter as your prize.
To proof yeast is to feed it with sugar during the dissolving stage of breadmaking. It makes it bubble or foam up. It can make your bread too yeasty if you feed it too much/let it go on to long, but it’s good to do if your yeast is a bit old or if you’re using a lot of whole wheat or non-wheat flours in your recipe.
Perhaps unscientific Mensa tests are the sugar to the tiny, tiny microorganisms that make up Simon’s brain?
@katz:
If you say such insulting things, I should be allowed to say “whores” as much as I want. I’ve never ever felt the slightest sexual attraction for my sister. She’s a beautiful and very nice girl, yet, and I won’t go in the details, she’ll never be able to care for herself and so I hate it to no end when somebody would look at her in a sexual way. I would be mortified if I knew that my own gf would feel attraction to her. Maybe irrational, because sexual attraction is a common phenomenon that most people can manage… but, BUT, I think this is only true if we talk about grown, independent adults. Look at it that way: If you accept that sexual attraction is just harmless in every context, there would be something like a pedophile whom you would trust your children.
@hellkell:
Have I ever called women whores? I just said this in response to MRALs comment.
Ok, but still:
I apologize for every time I said the word “whores”.
I know it’s bad, I didn’t want to hurt anybody, I won’t do it again, I promise.
@NullPointer:
Yeah, “boring” or “oh, you’re so evil, you misogynist…!”
Eneya wrote, “So… basically bisexual people as some sort of Schroedinger’s cats?”
We actually disappear if no one is paying attention to us: http://youtu.be/t-4w6NqfLAc
Hey, this thread has managed to get back to being on-topic! Bravo!
Since that’s happened, I’d like to pop in and say I’m in love with the quoted bit in the OP saying how women wouldn’t have sex with VR men because there’s no money in it…but we’d only stop after trying it a few times first. It’s like we’re rats in a Skinner box to whom fucking a dude is just pushing a lever, and we’re so used to the simple system of cause-and-effect that we don’t realize that doing so won’t yield money until we try a few times and realize the inconsistency.
I mean, I know these guys think we ladies are simple creatures, but that’s still assuming such low critical thinking skills on our end that the resulting imagined scenario makes me giggle because of how far it is from reality (yes, even by MRA standards.)
Of course, it wandered back to where the conversation took it by the time I posted, but whatever.
Theft is about obtaining property without paying for it because the owner of it will not give it to you willingly.
Murder could be about many things; it depends on the motive. It could actually be about not having power over the victim, but there are as many motives as there are murderers.
Assault is pretty much the same as murder; it depends on the motive and once again could very well be about having power over the victim. Or the victim refusing to submit and gets attacked for it.
Extortion is about coercing another into doing what you want them to do. Depending on the motive; that is what it is about.
<>
Translation: I would bet she’s experiencing a higher level of personal satisfaction then I am.
No kidding around, your life really sucks.
Vaginas, how do they work? …My profound sympathies to any woman who has been unfortunate enough to have had one of these guys as a sexual partner.
Simon sex is not a need for everyone… Yes even some males are asexual. They must be even more non existent than lesbians.
Also there are things you van take to rid yourself of desire if you wanted to. Since you seem to be a repulsed a bit by sex. I vast no judgment on that. Just on you projecting your frustration on others.
Feyline I had similar thoughts about that line.
Simon,
All humans have need beyond just what you need to “survive”, like food and water. What makes the need for sex different than the need for any social interaction, or intellectual or spiritual needs? Most people view the need for sex as being much more than just the need to use someone’s body. It’s about companionship and fun and emotional connection as well. Sex is very rarely about the body and that’s it. And if it is… well in my experience, that’s some pretty terrible sex.
I really don’t see what’s wrong with safe, sane, pleasurable, consensual sex. It really is a wonderful experience, and I don’t see why we as a society should limit it for arbitrary reasons.
MRAL: Yeah, but if you have STDs, that still sucks.
So does the flu. You deal with it and drive on. The only way to avoid the risk is to not have sex.
What really sucks is things like Reiter’s Syndrome, or RA, or Lou Gherig’s, shit that just happens, and never goes away; no cure for it.
But you know what, you drive on. If it kills you, it kills you; no one gets out of here alive.
Shora — because if society limited sex, then people like him who are hopeless messes at it, wouldn’t feel so out of place… or at least would be able to console themselves by gloating over how much all the nice, fun, not-creepy people in his community were being punished for being awesome.
Oh, yeah, forgot the wome — excuse me, the whores. He’d also be able to console himself by gloating over how all those whores who didn’t want to have sex with him would be being punished for having sex with someone else. Because logic fail.
@white knight
Something tells me: not too many.
Reading this through this thread, it continuously amazes me how sex, something innately biolgical, has so much stigma surrounding it. Why do humans fuck everything up?
1. Obtain consent
2. Stay above the legal age limit
3. Be respectful of your sex partner(s)
4. Use protection, get tested, inform your partner of any STDs
5. Don’t cheat unless you’re in a relationship that allows cheating
Really is it that hard? I do not see the point in condemning or judging people’s sex lives if the above 5 are met. Its no one’s fucking business otherwise.
I’ll be sure to tell the lesbians I know that they don’t exist too. Then again, how can I tell someone they don’t exist, if they don’t exist?
Simon: Remember that nonsensical use of language you spouted about murderers (and the less sensical nonsense about whores, since whore = prostitute = a person who directly exchanges money for sex /= women who has sex with many people in her lifetime): Those same rules apply to misogyny.
You say things about women which betray a deeply hostile opinin of them, absent any supporting facts/evidence. That, my dear boy, is misogynistic.
We call people who engage in misogyny, misogynists.
Why you choose to be such a person, is beyond me, but you plainly do so choose.
But why is this misogynist? I don’t call all women whores, just a certain subset. And it has absolutely nothing to do with their gender. We apply our standards fairly on both sexes.
Really? Do you think nugganu is a whore? He brags of having sex with multiple women in the same day. He says he did it to “get revenge” on one of them; thus declaring he had sex with at least one of those women not out of affection, but hatred of the other (and the strong implication from his account is he had sex with both out of anger, not affection).
But even if you do use the word in the same sloppy, and incorrect, way; your improper use of it to denigrate someone who does something you don’t like, as a shaming tactic; to try and force women to comply with your blinkered morality, is hateful toward women.
Which, again, makes you a misogynist.