Every day, it seems, I learn a little bit more about the oppression of men. Recently, for example, I learned that men who are working customer service jobs are oppressed because they are prohibited from punching their customers, even when these customers are really, really annoying, and possibly even ladies. At least that’s the lesson I took from a recent Facebook posting by MRA and frequent Spearhead contributor Jack Donovan. Here’s Jack:
Men want to carry their own weight, but to do so, they may have to take a job which requires them to choose “flight” over “fight” as part of their regular duties. All customer service oriented jobs, for instance, require men to take abuse from … someone who is angrily issuing insults and challenge cues … and reply submissively.
Even worse is when some of these poor men, like Jack, are natural “alphas” forced to take these beta-ass jobs because for some reason the people in charge of hiring haven’t recognized their awesome alphaness:
It would be interesting to see someone do a study tracking the testosterone levels of “alpha” type men who would not choose a customer service job, but who were forced to take a position where they had to apologize and beg forgiveness from abusive women and “betas” all day.
It’s almost like you have to act as if the customer is always right!
As a man who had blood in his face for *several hours* after having to hold my tongue while I was screamed at by a neurotic old female customer this week, the physical effects were pretty noticeable in the short term. I was murderously furious for hours and then emotionally exhausted and kind of depressed through the next day.
Wouldn’t it have been better for everyone – with the possible exception of the old lady, of course, and the rest of the customers, and maybe the firm employing Mr. Donovan – if he could have chosen “fight” instead of “flight,” and just popped that old bat in the nose? Problem fucking solved!
Let’s just shut down the economy and the judicial system for a day or two while we work out a way that Mr. Donovan can just punch people without any consequences. Because he’s an alpha, damn it, and he really shouldn’t be hemmed in by petty “laws” and “social conventions” and “moral codes” clearly meant for betas and ladies and other losers.
EDITED TO ADD: Donovan has responded to this post in the comments here. He says he’s not an MRA, so I’ve edited out that part. (I did find his Facebook post through a link on the MR subreddit, FWIW.)
I should clarify that Donovan did not talk directly about punching people; he talked about the “fight or flight” instinct.
“Do you think it would be OK to single out the girls in a classroom, and tell them to respect men, while the onlooking boys were NOT similarly asked to respect women?”
I blame the media and society in general for the need to tell boys that women should be respected.
Do you think it would be OK to single out the girls in a classroom, and tell them to respect men, while the onlooking boys were NOT similarly asked to respect women?
We live in a culture in which everything that is power and admirable is associated with male and everything that is subservient and weak is associated with female. This is indicative of a culture which, among other things, tells women and girls that they need to appease men at the expense of their own needs all the time, and that this is their duty.
This scenario you pose would be redundant at best and encourage women and girls to sacrifice their own needs for a man’s at worse.
@Happy Anti-MRA
“She was found *not guilty* of murder – that means, wait for it…. That she didn’t do it.”
1) No, “not guilty” does NOT mean she did not do it. Not guilty means that there is not enough evidence to convict.
2) No, Knox was NOT found not guilty. Knox was found “factually innocent”. THAT means she did not do it.
Nevertheless, Knox is guilty. Courts have lost all objectivity when it comes to attractive female criminals. That is why it is called a “pussy pass”. If Knox was male, or if Knox was ugly, she would still be in prison.
Maybe the reason most feminists don’t know about the “pussy pass” is because most feminists are as ugly on the outside as they are on the inside.
See, I can be as bigoted as you guys are 🙂
Trust me, AntZ, women get the message that we need to respect men all the freaking time. If I say anything too ‘feminist’, I can count on some of my girl friends to call me out on it before my guy friends do.
Note to self: Get away from conservative upbringing, find more feminist friends.
So, boys are dehumanized at taxpayer expense and says “I blame the media and society in general” while Shora blames the “culture.” Why don’t you people accept responsibility for what you have done? This is not the fault of the media or of culture. This is the fault of FEMINISTS, who are directing the intentional dispossession and dehumanization of very young (6 to 9) year old boys.
Don’t any of you believe in God? Or in compassion? Or in right and wrong? Are you not afraid of what will come of this horror, that you orchestrate?
If Knox was male, or if Knox was ugly, she would still be in prison.
….so why exactly is Raffaele Sollecito no longer in prison?
I was talking about my age and the fact that I heard about a big woman scientist in a uber specific class but was waught about DNA in the 7th grade, when I was 12 (I started school when I was 6)… is it clear now why I disagree with you and what I meant?
Anthony, you contradict yourself.
You have spoken so far about feminists as women only. That is the feeling you have given so far.
You say that women and men have different opinions and then you say that feminists are head over heals because Knox is a woman… how is that consistent? Where in equal rights you see appreciation for murder pray tell?
It is YOU who are implying that all women are money-grabbing people making men go to jail if men don’t pay support (I see you conveniently didn’t present any examples of this reality in which obviously you think it is quite the regular happening), you are speaking for women in some huge generalisations… how exactly my comment about a hive-mind is not correct since you have no idea who I am, where I am from, what my life is but assume that I am evil just because I believe in equality.
I find you hillarious. You said you have two little boys. In that case you have clearly seen more than enough examples of how violence and manliness is incorporated in our culture in scholls as well but don’t see the reason why kids should be taught to respect their peers?
I don’t have a kid but I have heard so many vile and horrible things being said between kids in that ange group that I think that the poster is appropriate and needed.
So.. you disagree with “respect women” but you are OK with “respect people”… am I understanding you correct?
You could have said this AT THE BEGINNING.
Kids are not stupid nor they don’t see the reality they live in, they watch tv, they read magazines, they hear adults interact with each other… The job of schools is to educate children, not only hand them some knowledge for the birds and the bees and how 2+2 is 4 but how to communicate wioth other people, how to work in a groups and so on. So I see a great deal of need of showing that respect between people is needed.
I wonder… people disagree on milion things but somehow you believe that all feminists agree about everything and there is this identical, monolitic structure imprinted in each feminist head which they believe as one and true with no differencies as well?
This is not just stupid, it’s borderline insane.
I disagree with so many people who happen to be feminists about so many things… but I truly believe that reffering towards women as vags is wrong. They sam I believe about reffering to men as dicks.
Please, look at the people with whom you are alligning for and see the ammount of violence they preach to be inflicted towards women whom they dislike.
I have heard many bad things from feminists but never about killing men, dismembering men or torturing men.
If you don’t agree with something, try using arguments.
Prove that kids in middle school don’t need such posters that they are not able to understand it. Show some data, do some research… or else you are just screaming in a blog which idea is to mock stupidity.
For fuck sake Antz you really are fucked in the head. Yes, the posters were a bit dismal but the message was positive. The only thing feminists are guilty of is wanting to be EQUAL. This means being respected, like men are respected.
‘Respect Women’ posters will bring about the apocalypse. Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria, yadda yadda.
Bullshit. Knox is innocent. There isn’t a single shred of physical evidence linking her to the crime, and she had no motive. The Italian trial court did demonstrate that it has no objectivity when it comes to attractive female defendants, but it’s not the way you present it: Knox was convicted for being an attractive, foreign young woman who (gasp) was sexually active and not shy about publicly expressing affection for her boyfriend. The prosecutor in that case has a history, by the way, of putting innocent people behind bars on the basis of crackpot Satan-related theories he pulls straight out of his religious-fundamentalist ass. Don’t believe me? Look up the Monster of Florence case. There was no evidence in this case against Knox, and so the prosecutor went about proving his so-called “case” by assassinating her character. And he did that by tapping into vicious misogyny. The conviction of Knox and Sollecito was one of the most outrageous miscarriages of justice in recent memory.
Wrong on all counts. First of all, girls are being systematically dehumanized ALL THE TIME. I know this, because unlike you, I actually was a girl, and fairly recently. It IS done at school, and it is dome in an explicit campaign to do them harm.
The biggest purveyors of such messages, however, are various religious organizations. Because religious organizations are exempt from paying income and property taxes, and because they now get various other subsidies from Federal and state governments, they ARE, in fact, taxpayer-funded. In fact, American taxpayers probably spend more money subsidizing fundamentalist religion than they do public schools. So yeah, girls are systematically dehumanized at taxpayer expense.
“Nevertheless, Knox is guilty.”
What’s your evidence to back this up? I mean hard evidence and not just circumstantial.
To bring it back around to the OP, clearly Jack could’ve used some ‘Respect Women’ posters in his upbringing.
No
Yes
Yes
By telling little boys to respect women?
You heard him: she was an attractive female. Therefore, she’s guilty.
(I think he forgot the victim was female too. And also raped.)
“I truly believe that reffering towards women as vags is wrong. They sam I believe about reffering to men as .”
I had never heard of “vags” before. Thanks for bringing it up. I will use it all the time now, until women stop using .
Antz, you can call women whatever you want, but you’re just giving people even less reason to listen to you.
You’ve kind of bottomed out there already, though, so I spose there’s not much to lose.
“You heard him: she was an attractive female. Therefore, she’s guilty.”
Apparently that doesn’t exactly hold up in court. Funny that.
I don’t actually, and I reject the Bible as an authoritative source on the subject of morality.
Sure I do, but not every variety of personal angst deserves compassion. I feel sorry for people who are critically ill, or those that are hungry, or those that find themselves out of a job through no fault of their own. I don’t feel sorry for men who feel all butthurt because they are forced to not rape, beat, dismiss or belittle women. I do feel sorry for the women who have the misfortune of dealing with men like that in their personal lives.
Yes. I think it’s wrong that most boys in our culture see only their mothers care for them, and thus acquire the notion that women have an obligation to serve them. I think it’s right to disabuse them of that notion.
Me? No, the idea of men respecting me doesn’t scare me. I can see how it is a “horror” for someone like you, though.
Is it just me, or has Antsy gotten even more shrill and annoying these days? He used to be fun but is now just kind of aggressively dumb. His article on Knox is just the icing on that cake–apparently, according to police, Knox threw a tantrum because she was told “no” for the first time in her life, immediately murdering another human being because literally no one had ever said the word “no” to one of her wishes.
Yeah. But Antsy is just against rampant boy-hate. No misogyny here.
His colorful description of the “effects” of these posters is not based on any evidence. I wonder if his sons even noticed them without them being pointed out by their father. But hey, apparently a few posters in a library is just like being singled out based on your gender in a public assembly and verbally reprimanded to respect the other gender. Yeah, it’s totally like that Antsy, keep telling yourself that. Because at no point has anyone shown that there are any problems particular to boys. Nope, none at all. Boys and girls swim in a gentle, gender-blind sea and there’s no reason to message one or the other about anything in particular. And what’s with those posters telling boys to eat their vegetables! Can you imagine being singled out and brought onto a stage before a giant crowd and told to eat your vegetables?! These posters are just like that!
And “You’re not his property” it totally misandrist boy-hate. No misogyny here.
I must say, Antsy wouldn’t have as strong a case if these posters weren’t the only thing being shown to children, ever. But seeing as they are, they are clearly indicative of a tyrannical boy-hating regime. Why aren’t girls told to eat their vegetables, for instance? These posters don’t say they are, so clearly they must never be.
Cassandra: You should get the new cat in to the vet asap, there are some nasties she could have picked up on the street. Flea and worm treatment, if nothing else, plus shots. And she might have a microchip. Follow the vet’s directions for keeping her apart – with the chance of FIV, you need to be really, really careful.
I love the way the public is able to convict people based on sensational media representations.
She’s guilty! I didn’t review the exhibits, I didn’t listen to the live testimony, and I wasn’t even present in the courtroom. But I just KNOW she’s guilty, because she seems like a bad person.
This happens to both men and women, of course, and so is only a gender issue on a case-by-case basis, it’s really just more of a poor legal/media literacy issue.
If antz was saying they were holding a special class for boys he’d have a point.
Although I will say the “awaiting instructions” did come off as creepy to me.
Otherwise, if the kids even read the posters, the reaction is meh and they continue with whatever they were doing.
I think the “awaiting instructions” bit is because kids outlook on the world is not fully formed yet, so they base their behavior on what adults tell them. It was just very poorly executed.
It strikes me as interesting that abuse is seen as an “adult issue”.
By the time I was eight I had witnessed physical, verbal, financial, and emotional abuse and experienced physical, sexual, verbal, and emotional abuse against my person. Some of this abuse was explicitly to try and make me conform with expectations based on the fact that I was female assigned at birth. I had a teacher in my school in the seventh grade stand up in front of classes and say that all of the girls would end up pregnant and the boys as factory workers, so that it would be best if most of us were removed from school around the sixth grade. If you don’t think kids are getting these anti-woman/abusive messages at school and home in plenty of cases, you are a person who is pretty ignorant of reality.