Every day, it seems, I learn a little bit more about the oppression of men. Recently, for example, I learned that men who are working customer service jobs are oppressed because they are prohibited from punching their customers, even when these customers are really, really annoying, and possibly even ladies. At least that’s the lesson I took from a recent Facebook posting by MRA and frequent Spearhead contributor Jack Donovan. Here’s Jack:
Men want to carry their own weight, but to do so, they may have to take a job which requires them to choose “flight” over “fight” as part of their regular duties. All customer service oriented jobs, for instance, require men to take abuse from … someone who is angrily issuing insults and challenge cues … and reply submissively.
Even worse is when some of these poor men, like Jack, are natural “alphas” forced to take these beta-ass jobs because for some reason the people in charge of hiring haven’t recognized their awesome alphaness:
It would be interesting to see someone do a study tracking the testosterone levels of “alpha” type men who would not choose a customer service job, but who were forced to take a position where they had to apologize and beg forgiveness from abusive women and “betas” all day.
It’s almost like you have to act as if the customer is always right!
As a man who had blood in his face for *several hours* after having to hold my tongue while I was screamed at by a neurotic old female customer this week, the physical effects were pretty noticeable in the short term. I was murderously furious for hours and then emotionally exhausted and kind of depressed through the next day.
Wouldn’t it have been better for everyone – with the possible exception of the old lady, of course, and the rest of the customers, and maybe the firm employing Mr. Donovan – if he could have chosen “fight” instead of “flight,” and just popped that old bat in the nose? Problem fucking solved!
Let’s just shut down the economy and the judicial system for a day or two while we work out a way that Mr. Donovan can just punch people without any consequences. Because he’s an alpha, damn it, and he really shouldn’t be hemmed in by petty “laws” and “social conventions” and “moral codes” clearly meant for betas and ladies and other losers.
EDITED TO ADD: Donovan has responded to this post in the comments here. He says he’s not an MRA, so I’ve edited out that part. (I did find his Facebook post through a link on the MR subreddit, FWIW.)
I should clarify that Donovan did not talk directly about punching people; he talked about the “fight or flight” instinct.
Shora, I think respect has quite a lot with anti-abuse, because abuse and misogyny (and misandry for that matter) happen when people don’t respect other people’s lives.
Ray, I can think of Rosalind Franklin as a such a showing example of what you are talking.
We can point to names all day long but the main argument is “well, they are not in the history books and the few who are included are just a handfull, so they don’t count. anyway history books write themselves so it can’t be any othe reason why so few women are mentioned at all”.
NEWSFLASH FOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN ANTHONY ZARAT
It’s not the first time that he’s been seriously wrong;
http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/chivalry/a-pussy-pass-in-italy/
The only thing I have a problem with regarding the poster is the “awaiting instructions” thing. It implies that men don’t know how to communicate with others without being violent. However, there is nothing wrong with a poster that is telling you to be a good person.
Adorable, reffering to someone on their genitels, truly a perfect example how not-sexist MRA and their supports are.
“Awaiting instructions” is creepy.
@antz
“Once again, just astounded. Several of you have looked at the posters. You know, in your hearts, that this is wrong.”
No I don;t.
“Why not say so? All this nonsense about vegetables and homework … is this the way you rationalize what you are doing?”
There is no rationalization to be had.
“Why are boys being taught about violence, but not girls?”
They aren’t.
“Why are boys and girls being told that only boys are violent?”
They aren’t.
“Why is any of this happening in an elementary school environment?”
Why not?
“Why are all of you OK with this?”
And they say women are the all-emotional, reactionary, irrational ones. Behold! Men can be as well.
@ Joanna
Good point about the “awaiting instructions” shirt. I was feeling the same way.
Eneya,
Yes Rosalind Franklin is another great example.
You are correct on the counterargument. Of course without Admiral Hooper no male in CS would have been able to do anything so she is just one person but she’s a person on whom literally every other person in the field depends.
This is, of course, beside the point and, yes, they’ll never understand why.
Oh for fuck’s sake, he’s still going on about that anti-DV ad campaign from several years ago?!
Looked at the posters. Count me among those who see nothing wrong with them. Based on my own anecdotal experience having grown up as a boy, society constantly reinforces for boys that girls are somehow inferior and part of some strange and inscrutable species of beings. As adults, this continues and manifests very clearly, as seen by the manifold volumes of literature published on attempting to “figure out” “the mind of women” as though it was an impenetrable and inhuman mystery. What this leads to is a lack of respect.
I think if I would have had a proper education that disabused me of this notion at an earlier age my life would have been changed for the better. So I not only see nothing wrong with the posters, I heartily approve of them.
“NEWSFLASH FOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN ANTHONY ZARAT”
http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/chivalry/a-pussy-pass-in-italy/
Knox was given her “women get out of jail free card” less than one week ago, as I predicted. Looks like this is a case where I was right, not wrong. What is your point?
OK, I want to be as positive as possible in this situation with Anthony.
Anthony, can you please give us an example of how the issue with high numbers of abuse, violence and sirepect should be tackled, on the bases that statistics provide us, that mainly juvenile boys show it towards other boys and towards girls as well and only a small percentage of girls are abusive towards other boys and girls?
Because though it is not that fair to expect from you to come with a better idea only because you don’t agree with this one, but just some thoughts about how you think it should look like?
If this “Pussy Pass” does exist, women’s prisons must be pretty empty….
I think you mean “Knox got her ‘sluts go to jail without a trial because of irresponsible witch hunts card’ revoked less than one week ago”.
AntZ, you are really a bizarre person…
She was found *not guilty* of murder – that means, wait for it…. That she didn’t do it.
It’s too bad Dad 2 Boys doesn’t have a daughter, then he might want nice things for her as well.
@Eneya/Ray
Rosalind Franklin is often credited with a central role in the discovery of the structure and function of DNA. What is less well known is that she later played a central role in determining the structure of viruses. Both of these discoveries were independently recognized by the Nobel committee, in 1962 and in 1982.
She is one of the most notable scientists in structural biology, and her work is part of the bedrock upon which modern medicine is built.
Anthony, I was 19 when I heard about her and I was studying in a biology and chemistry orientated class, so don’t pull this crap on me, please.
Also, I asked you very, very politely to tell me how do you imagine that the topic about violence in schools and respect should be tackled taking in account for statistics and facts?
Can you please stop impying women have a hive-brain or that a person who is found not guilty is because of the gender and not because of evidence?
Also, I saw a lot more disbelief and negative comments on this case from women than from men. Why suddenly assume that women will be happy for this only because she is a woman? It is truly bizare.
I still don’t get why he thinks respecting women is oppressive.
@Eneya
In the MRA mindset that AntZ is infected with, all women think alike and “feminists” are a single, organised entity with a single goal; the eradication/enslavement of males.
“Anthony, I was 19 when I heard about her and I was studying in a biology and chemistry …”
Where do you think you should have read about her? Biology and chemistry seems very appropriate to me. Biochemistry would be better, but most universities do not offer a biochemistry course as part of the general curriculum.
” …how do you imagine that the topic about violence in schools and respect …”
I think it should be taught in High school, Middle school at the earliest. More importantly, I think it should be gender neutral. Boys AND girls should be taught to respect EVERYONE.
“… Can you please stop impying women have a hive-brain …”
The appellate jury was both male and female, while the original conviction was agreed to by a largely female jury. The “hive” exists only in your brain.
“… I saw a lot more disbelief and negative comments on this case from women than from men …”
Women and men are equally capable of compassion and of outrage. Unlike feminism, the MRM is not anti-female. We ask for (i) equal treatment under the law and (ii) equal protection of government.
Feminism is anti-female?
“Anthony, I was 19 when I heard about her and I was studying in a biology and chemistry orientated class, so don’t pull this crap on me, please.”
Eneya, what do you think that Rosalind Franklin thought of the Watson/Crick/Wilkins episode, and of the controversy surrounding the discovery of DNA?
And the MRM is not anti-female? Must be Opposite Day or something.
“I still don’t get why he thinks respecting women is oppressive.”
Do you think it would be OK to single out the girls in a classroom, and tell them to respect men, while the onlooking boys were NOT similarly asked to respect women?
Why don’t you people get it? Is it intentional?
“Boys AND girls should be taught to respect EVERYONE.”
But they are… O.o