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If you’re an Alpha male, shouldn’t you be allowed to just punch people who annoy you at work?

Sometimes Alpha cab drivers want to punch their customers too.

Every day, it seems, I learn a little bit more about the oppression of men. Recently, for example, I learned that men who are working customer service jobs are oppressed because they are prohibited from punching their customers, even when these customers are really, really annoying, and possibly even ladies. At least that’s the lesson I took from a recent Facebook posting by MRA and frequent Spearhead contributor Jack Donovan.  Here’s Jack:

 Men want to carry their own weight, but to do so, they may have to take a job which requires them to choose “flight” over “fight” as part of their regular duties. All customer service oriented jobs, for instance, require men to take abuse from … someone who is angrily issuing insults and challenge cues … and reply submissively.

Even worse is when some of these poor men, like Jack, are natural “alphas” forced to take these beta-ass jobs because for some reason the people in charge of hiring haven’t recognized their awesome alphaness:

It would be interesting to see someone do a study tracking the testosterone levels of “alpha” type men who would not choose a customer service job, but who were forced to take a position where they had to apologize and beg forgiveness from abusive women and “betas” all day.

It’s almost like you have to act as if the customer is always right!

As a man who had blood in his face for *several hours* after having to hold my tongue while I was screamed at by a neurotic old female customer this week, the physical effects were pretty noticeable in the short term. I was murderously furious for hours and then emotionally exhausted and kind of depressed through the next day.

Wouldn’t it have been better for everyone – with the possible exception of the old lady, of course, and the rest of the customers, and maybe the firm employing Mr. Donovan – if he could have chosen “fight” instead of “flight,” and just popped that old bat in the nose? Problem fucking solved!

Let’s just shut down the economy and the judicial system for a day or two while we work out a way that Mr. Donovan can just punch people without any consequences. Because he’s an alpha, damn it, and he really shouldn’t be hemmed in by petty “laws” and “social conventions” and “moral codes” clearly meant for betas and ladies and other losers.

EDITED TO ADD: Donovan has responded to this post in the comments here. He says he’s not an MRA, so I’ve edited out that part.  (I did find his Facebook post through a link on the MR subreddit, FWIW.)

I should clarify that Donovan did not talk directly about punching people; he talked about the “fight or flight” instinct.

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Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Shut the fuck up, Rutee. It’s entirely reasonable to conjecture that men may, on the whole, find customer service jobs more difficult to bear than women.

It is something that women’s socialization better prepares us for; that doesn’t mean it suddenly magically stops sucking, it means we’re on average more likely to be used to that kind of shitty social situation.

I don’t know, maybe, maybe not, but given, well, all of history, such speculation doesn’t make Donovan “an idiot”.

but which really run contrary to everything that men have evolved to be

You’re an idiot with a poor knowledge of prehistorical society and living conditions. We didn’t have the time for the idiotic dimorphism you think happened. *EVERYONE* gathered, and hunting, as rarely as it was done, was a gender neutral task handled by everyone best suited to it, male or female.

What part of my post did you not read, MRAL? Or maybe what part of his? I wouldn’t be surprised if on average, women were better prepared for customer service. But chalking it up to biology and not culture is a grossly stupid idea. I know I shouldn’t taunt an illiterate like this, but learn to fucking read.

Oh, and I should add perhaps; I can’t come up with an explanatory mechanism for it, but it’s certainly possible that despite a socialization that lends itself to customer service, women on average *aren’t* as good at it. But absent serious evidence, I doubt it.

In a lawless world similar to that of the early humans (or the apocalyptic scenario that MRAs often fantasize about) it’s true that women’s arrogance would disappear REAL FAST. I don’t want that to happen though, because I would miss the computer.

Everyone’s arrogance would, but you live in an alternate reality where arrogance is solely a female trait. Because you have a high IQ (Really, your lack of self awareness is *Hilarious*)

Oh, and I haven’t noticed a gender difference in horrific customers or employees. Sometimes women are assholes, sometimes men are. The form is frequently different, but hey.

theLaplaceDemon
theLaplaceDemon
9 years ago

Donovan, if you are still around – there has been a study on testosterone and social status “mismatch.” Josephs (2006) I believe, journal of Personality and Social Psychology (or something like that.) Their interpretations are arguable in some cases, but it’s a nifty piece overall.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Earth’s Children was feminist fantasy, not a history book.

There are still hunter-gatherer tribes on the planet, and the women do not EVER hunt with the men.

Prove it.

Shut the fuck up, Rutee. It’s entirely reasonable to conjecture that men may, on the whole, find customer service jobs more difficult to bear than women. Is it accurate? I don’t know, maybe, maybe not, but given, well, all of history, such speculation doesn’t make Donovan “an idiot”.

So you’re admitting that you have no fucking clue whether or not you are accurate, your knowledge of “all of history” extends to “I walked past an anthro lecture at one point,” and you’re telling her to shut up? Is there anything here but suck?

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if on average, women were better prepared for customer service. But chalking it up to biology and not culture is a grossly stupid idea. I know I shouldn’t taunt an illiterate like this, but learn to fucking read.

Oh, and I should add perhaps; I can’t come up with an explanatory mechanism for it, but it’s certainly possible that despite a socialization that lends itself to customer service, women on average *aren’t* as good at it. But absent serious evidence, I doubt it.

In the late nineteenth century in Europe, most clerking had been done by men, unless the women involved were the female relatives of the shop owner. “Shop girls” were a new development. These young women worked in department stores, which were that era’s Hot New Threat To Morality, and frequently lived on their own or with female roommates. Many conservatives thought that this was inappropriate, not because men were better suited to handling customers per se, but because women shouldn’t be talking to so many strangers at all. It made them forward. I think Hobsbawn has a section on shop-girls in The Age of Empires. Anyway, this was not only a new thing, but a new and resisted thing, at least at first (by the 1920s, the discourse around these young women had gotten much more accepting).

A biological difference doesn’t “evolve” in a little over a hundred years in only one culture area (here, the industrialized West). That’s really dumb.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Early humans were lawless, but they weren’t monstrous.

They weren’t “lawless” either; everyone’s got customs that keep a lid on accepted social behavior.

random6x7
random6x7
9 years ago

Fun fact: Mbuti men refuse to have net-hunts on days when all the women are busy with something else. They just don’t think it’s worth it if no women will participate. More fun: Agta women have a better hunting success rate than the men do, even with babies strapped to their backs. Anonymous age 69, there are real anthropologists who read this blog, you know. The sexual division of labor is my specialty, too, and this stuff is not just feminist fantasy.

random6x7
random6x7
9 years ago

Also, what the hell kind of societies do MRA-types think that humans evolved in? Women weren’t the only ones carrying on social activities. Social cooperation is important for every person, male or female, and is one of the reasons we have such nice, large brains (well, some of us, anyway). Men weren’t running solitary across the veldt, occasionally wandering into a group of women and running off with one.

Men's RIghts Activist Lieutenant
Men's RIghts Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Rute, you’re TL;DR, FYI.

kristinmh
kristinmh
9 years ago

Oh, random6x7, where were you when we were trying to persuade Brandon that interdependence wasn’t a feminist plot to seperate him from his gold but the basic survival strategy of Homo sapiens?

Glad to have you on board – I think a lot of MRAs would benefit from some good anthropological smackdowns.

random6x7
random6x7
9 years ago

Thanks, kristinmh! I’ve been lurking for awhile, but don’t often post.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Rute, you’re TL;DR, FYI.

No comeback? I thought so.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

I also find it a little telling that MRAL never responds explicitly to my posts, even though (or maybe because?) he and I share a common culture, that of the university. Maybe my presence makes him insecure? After all, I am a constant reminder to him that, from the point of view of someone whose role it is to teach people like him, he doesn’t appear to know shit.

But anyway, I still want to know what your major is, MRAL, considering that you seem to believe you can dismiss Ruttee’s posts the way you do. What do you know about evolution?

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

I laughed pretty hard at this, and I have a high IQ.

WE POLITELY ANSWERED THE MAMMOTH’S CONCERNS ABOUT ITS ACCOUNT BALANCE FOR YOU

I’m imagining a mammoth trying to use a phone, and it is just not working out! Their big puffy feet!

random6x7
random6x7
9 years ago

They could use their trunks. I bet that’d make their voices sound funny, though, like when you have a cold.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I already mentioned my major is mathematics.

amandajane5
9 years ago

When I worked at Linens ‘n Things, as a front-end manager (read: cashier who also did the books), which means dealing with returns, which were the bane of our existence, I dealt with many a “guest” with ridiculous demands. And despite the store being a female-tilted thing in modern society, the assholes were 50/50. I was lucky enough to have management who would back me up, but the number of times I got screamed at for having a different return policy from BBB, I cannot tell you.

Mr. Kobold
Mr. Kobold
9 years ago

So, considering your major and “beta-ness” MRAL, you salivating for a fantasy post-apocalyptic future full of half-naked warlords and slave women “put in their place) seems kind self-destructive.

http://users.jam21.net/sandrab/Gallery%20Mad%20Max%20II%20Villains/Wez%20and%20Golden%20Youth/WezGY5.jpg

You would not be holding the crossbow in any wasteland partnership if one were to occur.

Not that I have anything against math majors, one of my best friends in UCLA is one, though he has the benefits of being a) not a misogynist and b) able to back up any macho statements of his (which he wouldn’t stupidly make to begin with).

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I already said I do not want the apocalypse because I would miss the computer. Work on your reading comprehension, dumbass.

Mr. Kobold
Mr. Kobold
9 years ago

Huh I might have missed that big, you see what applies to your posts is less tl,dr and more ss,dr (same shit, didn’t read).

Nice to see you’ve got your priorities straight in regards to Armageddon though 🙂

Mr. Kobold
Mr. Kobold
9 years ago

*bit still in a fugue from last night

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Mr. Kobold is so clever I forgot to laugh, oh wait, he’s not funny, he’s just an unfunny piece of rotten shit.

Mr. Kobold
Mr. Kobold
9 years ago

Gosh ,that cutting remark stings to the bone.

Quick tip: x is so x, NOT!

Isn’t the wittiest of rejoinders.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Mr. Kobold will be buttphucking a hobo within 3 years (ps he will also be a hobo)

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Who pissed in your cornflakes, MRAL?

Mr. Kobold
Mr. Kobold
9 years ago

Which mature institute of learning does MRAL attend again?

Also *fucking*, unless one is desperately trying in a juvenile manner to not to get picked up for moderation, despite continual usage of slurs like “gash” in describing a women’s vagina.

And why the disdain for the homeless? I thought MRAL was an overall positive person?

Dad 2 Boys
Dad 2 Boys
9 years ago

Mr. Kobold – Sir – I must concur with Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant here. Within three years – that is, 10:05 EST, 10/15/11 – I do believe it is likely that you will engaging in Anal Sex with another homeless Man.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

MRAL’s having another hot Saturday night making puerile insults and dabbling in sockpuppetry.

Dude, you’re in a pretty awesome city. Go see a show, do something, get out in the world.

Mr. Kobold
Mr. Kobold
9 years ago

Me I guess K.B., I’ll stop on my end (doing…whatever it is I am doing) but at this point on the slope I expect a few more wicked mature insults involving truck stop bathrooms and the like. Just more contributions to MRAL’s “you kidding me son?” tome of internet fail.

Dead Horse
Dead Horse
9 years ago

Oh MRAL/Dad 2 Boys stop stopppp!!! Why are you still beating me??? You already lost soooooo bad! Oh the shame!! Oh the humanity!!!!!

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

I already mentioned my major is mathematics.

I’m sorry, I must not have noticed. Thank you.

Mr. Kobold
Mr. Kobold
9 years ago

Oh yeah Dad 2 Boys, the most recent MRAL sock-puppet, is in the mix.

It’s like the big reveal of Damien Lewis’ character in the shit Steven King movie “Dreamcatcher”. Summary: basically a British guy playing an American guy who has the most ridiculous British accent

And MRAL, quick tip: when my friends and I watched that (awesomely bad) movie on TV at 3 AM last night, it was after spending hours going out and having good time!

Get on top of hellkell’s advice, the (rapidly diminishing) part of me that doesn’t think you’re beyond hope thinks it would be one of the best decisions of your life.

Pam
Pam
9 years ago

Anonymous age 69,

Please wander on back to Laura Grace Robins’ sycophantic echo chamber, as you’ll get far more support for your myopic worldview there.

Spearhafoc
9 years ago

Rute, you’re TL;DR, FYI.

Ah yes, you high IQ-having wunderkind, you.

I’m willing to bet the rudeness you feel from female customer service workers is, like all the other “rudeness” you experience from women, a failure to bend down and suck your dick upon seeing you.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Folks, I’d like to show you the benefits of a High IQ: Rute, you’re TL;DR, FYI.

That’s right, MRAL, the Boy Genius can’t manage to read a couple of hundred words.

MRAL, who is, “very strong”, in addition to his being, “Very smart” also has a good flight response; since his agrressive rants about what people would/wouldn’t do over in the shooting in the salon thread were met with a lot of people telling him he didn’t know his ass from hole in the ground he has been really quiet.

I guess we were too rude to him in response to his insults. we didn’t show enough ladylike fear, or something, and (this being the internet) he couldn’t give us the beatings we so richly deserve.

ithiliana
9 years ago

@Pecunium: MRAL WT is a math major, so clearly we owe it to him to speak only in equations!

katz
9 years ago

Girls are taught that being nice means being meek and compliant, and that being assertive is okay in small doses but you can’t be too assertive or people will call you the b word.

Check it out: The Art of Ambition conference for men only. (I know people who go to this church…it’s sobering.)

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

@Pecunium: MRAL WT is a math major, so clearly we owe it to him to speak only in equations!

Nooo, not equations! Some of us are girls — we can’t do equations! We can only do soft sciences like biology and chemistry and increasing amounts of physics!

Who pissed in your cornflakes, MRAL?

He pissed in them himself, but damn if he’ll admit it on pain of death. Also Dad 2 Boys assures him that it’s a totally normal manly thing to do, as is blaming the bitches for it, so he’s gonna take his word for it. (This reassurance involved a cliched talking-to-yourself-in-a-reflective-surface scene, ala Green Goblin or Smeagol. MRAL’s roommate has been begging for a room change since the first day of classes, poor bastard.)

@random426×7: You! I like you! 🙂

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

I’m willing to bet the rudeness you feel from female customer service workers is, like all the other “rudeness” you experience from women, a failure to bend down and suck your dick upon seeing you.

If men are less rude, does that mean more dick-suckings from male customer service people? Or is that not part of the expectation for them, therefore zero blowjobs from anyone means women are officially ruder? :p

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

MRAL’s roommate has been begging for a room change since the first day of classes, poor bastard.

IIRC, he lives with Mom. So, yeah, I do feel kinda sorry for her – if he feels it’s okay to treat random online strangers the way he treats us, how the hell does he treat his mother? How does he get past the fact that she owns a vagina? (fuck no, i am never letting that go, the jokes practically write themselves!)

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Geez, he lives with his mom? My point stands — she’s probably fucking desperate for a change by now. D: I’m a way, way more classy and thoughtful and kind person than MRAL is and even my parents were pretty happy to see teenage me GTFO for college. (My vision of the dialogues in a mirror between MRAL and Dad 2 Boys now includes occasional interruptions for MRAL to yell through the door “Mooooom! Go away, I’m still using the baaathroom!”)

On a happier note, I think I figured out the source of all of MRAL-the-mathematician’s pathetic insecurities! It started with puberty:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2398#comic

His terrible understanding of biology (and genitalia) done let him down.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I am on a full scholarship at a fairly high-ranked university, so yeah, I’m pretty sure I’m a better person than you are, you fuck.

katz
9 years ago

You call random people you’ve never met “fucks,” so I’m pretty sure 98% of the human race and 100% of plants, animals, bacteria, etc, are better than you, MRAL.

But at least you have a high IQ.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Rute, you’re TL;DR, FYI.

Note to self: MRAL can’t read more than 160 words at once. It just blows his fucking mind that someone uses so many words.

I am on a full scholarship at a fairly high-ranked university, so yeah, I’m pretty sure I’m a better person than you are, you fuck.

You’re a clueless twit who, while you may know math, know jack shit about everything else, yet have strong opinions on all this shit you’re clueless about. You actively drive off every woman you’re interested in with your hatred, fail at basic social skills, can’t even fake having an anger problem successfully on the internet, can’t maintain a loving relationship with anyone you’re not actually related to, and know nothing about surviving outside of university.

Oh, and you’re amazingly arrogant and lack all self awareness. I’m pretty sure that you’re one of the worst folks I know, only losing out to the even more disgusting trolls. Get some friends, for your sake. Be a better person.

Flib
Flib
9 years ago

I’m on a decent scholarship at a very high end university myself, MRAL. Shall we have a measuring contest?

ithiliana
9 years ago

A computer theft ring a couple of years ago at my very LOW end university turned out to be masterminded by a group of Honors students on full-ride scholarships!

The computer theft ring fifteen or sixteen years ago at my very LOW end university turned out to be masteredminded by……the chief of university police.

WHITE MEN ALL!

katz
9 years ago

Also, MRAL, you hate yourself and are miserable.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

I am on a full scholarship at a fairly high-ranked university, so yeah, I’m pretty sure I’m a better person than you are, you fuck.

Yeah, well, I went to a better school than yours for free, fuckstick. And I don’t need THAT to know I’m a better person than you, squirt.

You don’t know shit about how the world works.

And I have a high IQ.

random6x7
random6x7
9 years ago

MRAL, you should be careful with that sort of thing. I went to a college for undergrad that every academic I’ve ever met has wished they could’ve gone to. My education is undoubtedly better than yours, if you want to actually learn and understand, rather than just regurgitate what you’ve read in a book. Neener, neener.

Lord, this sort of thing is so stupid, anyway. I’m currently at a state university that was actually used as the ultimate example of a crappy college in a book I read a few years ago. I’m still getting quite a good education, and the experiences and opportunities I have here far outweigh what I could get in any college back east, and certainly at any Ivy League. You’re only 19, right, MRAL? I can forgive you the academic snobbishness (although probably not the random anger and hatred), but you’d best grow out of it soon. Education is not about where you went. Education is about curiosity, creativity, and taking advantage of every opportunity that you can. Someone willing to do that can learn more at a community college than someone at an Ivy League who is willing to rest on their school’s name.

@Bagelsan – Thanks! 🙂

ithiliana
9 years ago

er “masteredminded” should of course be “masterminded”!

ithiliana
9 years ago

Plus, somebody should introduce MRALWT to the concept of multiple intelligences — getting good grades in controlled test situations (and the IQ test is just that, a controlled and constructed test situation) does not necessarily correlate to all the possible areas of intelligence. For example, I think most of us would rate him rather low on emotional intelligence.

And his writing skills are not that skillful either.

I sucked at math (some blame should be given to the School of Education in my home town which tried a different theory of teaching in the public school every year without, as far as I can recall, any sort of informed consent ever being sought or received, especially in the math and reading classes). I still suck at math, in part because I cannot be arsed to care enough to try to learn about it when I can use technology (online class platform does all the calculating for me as long as I entered the correct percentages).

There are few people who rank highly in all the intelligence areas–and I doubt MRALWT is one of those few.