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If you’re an Alpha male, shouldn’t you be allowed to just punch people who annoy you at work?

Sometimes Alpha cab drivers want to punch their customers too.

Every day, it seems, I learn a little bit more about the oppression of men. Recently, for example, I learned that men who are working customer service jobs are oppressed because they are prohibited from punching their customers, even when these customers are really, really annoying, and possibly even ladies. At least that’s the lesson I took from a recent Facebook posting by MRA and frequent Spearhead contributor Jack Donovan.  Here’s Jack:

 Men want to carry their own weight, but to do so, they may have to take a job which requires them to choose “flight” over “fight” as part of their regular duties. All customer service oriented jobs, for instance, require men to take abuse from … someone who is angrily issuing insults and challenge cues … and reply submissively.

Even worse is when some of these poor men, like Jack, are natural “alphas” forced to take these beta-ass jobs because for some reason the people in charge of hiring haven’t recognized their awesome alphaness:

It would be interesting to see someone do a study tracking the testosterone levels of “alpha” type men who would not choose a customer service job, but who were forced to take a position where they had to apologize and beg forgiveness from abusive women and “betas” all day.

It’s almost like you have to act as if the customer is always right!

As a man who had blood in his face for *several hours* after having to hold my tongue while I was screamed at by a neurotic old female customer this week, the physical effects were pretty noticeable in the short term. I was murderously furious for hours and then emotionally exhausted and kind of depressed through the next day.

Wouldn’t it have been better for everyone – with the possible exception of the old lady, of course, and the rest of the customers, and maybe the firm employing Mr. Donovan – if he could have chosen “fight” instead of “flight,” and just popped that old bat in the nose? Problem fucking solved!

Let’s just shut down the economy and the judicial system for a day or two while we work out a way that Mr. Donovan can just punch people without any consequences. Because he’s an alpha, damn it, and he really shouldn’t be hemmed in by petty “laws” and “social conventions” and “moral codes” clearly meant for betas and ladies and other losers.

EDITED TO ADD: Donovan has responded to this post in the comments here. He says he’s not an MRA, so I’ve edited out that part.  (I did find his Facebook post through a link on the MR subreddit, FWIW.)

I should clarify that Donovan did not talk directly about punching people; he talked about the “fight or flight” instinct.

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GRA
GRA
9 years ago

Is D2B maybe Pecunium?

/me really enjoys the fun direction this thread has taken

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

He is not Eoghan?

Mr. Kobold
Mr. Kobold
9 years ago

It can’t be Antz as a sock right? Even if Dad 2 Boys plays off of Antz statements of trying to raise two sons in an extremely shitty manner.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Slavey? Hengist? Toy Soldier?

Feyline
Feyline
9 years ago

That dude who had a habit of quoting anything Kirby said to him and following it with nothing more than, “said the feminist sodomite shill”?

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

Amused – Sir – Your narrow-mindedness belies your female genitalia!

Jesus Tap-dancing Christ. Learn to speak English, moron. If you want to use a “fancy” word like “belie”, look it up first. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. (You just said that men are narrow-minded.)

As we have seen through history, male inventiveness – especially in times of need, re. the Dark Ages and the Holocaust – knows no bounds, no limits. It is honestly quite amazing.

Inventiveness? What inventiveness?

The Holocaust: put people into a small, windowless room, pump poisonous gas in until everyone is dead. Repeat. It’s perverted, sick and evil, but I don’t see in what way this is supposed to be innovative. Or do you mean Dr. Mengele? Doesn’t take much brain power to cut out someone’s vital organ just to see what happens. Future serial killers do that to animals all the time, and they are not known for benefiting society in any way, shape or form You MRA cretins insinuate that Mengele and Jack the Ripper epitomize the male sex, but accuse feminists of misandry. It’s pure comedy gold.

The Dark Ages: there was no such thing. Learn your history, you miserable incurious pedestrian. Even accepting the simplistic junior high school narrative — oh yeah, it took “men” only a thousand years or so to get around to creating half-way decent art, architecture and weaponry. As for medicine, that had to wait another five hundred years. Gobs of inventiveness right there! Amazing, you are right, how so many men, over such a long time, can create so little.

Given the vast swath of time we have until the Big Crunch, I can say with confidence that men will find a way to save themselves (perhaps multiversal travel??) with women riding shotgun, as always.

Well, since you claim that only men ever do anything of importance, I am comforted to know that after they finish fucking up the environment, blowing everything up, and making the planet completely unlivable, men will go on to stop the Big Crunch. Indeed, I am relieved.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Wait, is MRAL pretending to have kids now? See, it wasn’t his eye that was the problem after all!

kristinmh
kristinmh
9 years ago

Ooo! Is it…um…who’s a man here?

Kirby?
Spearhafoc?
Dracula? (Dracula, I think you’re a dude for some reason, but if not my bad)
Kave?

Or…

NWOSLAVE????

Honestly, I’m just guessing – throw me a bone here.

Mr. Kobold
Mr. Kobold
9 years ago

Oh that MRAL, the fact that he doesn’t have a life just adds the most miniscule smidgin of entertainment to mine.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

OK, that was much better socking. MRAL, if you put that kind of effort into getting a non-toxic personality IRL, your life would change dramatically.

felixBC
felixBC
9 years ago

Darn. I was thinking Ami because she does an excellent Poe, and this one was so bad–and funny –that it had to be a Poe. United States of Matriarchy? Who built the Grand Canyon? (definitely *man*-made)

And this:

Sex is not something to be trifled with, it is an Ancient Rite of God that males require in order to maintain their focus and discipline. For women to voluntarily withhold sex is, quite frankly, tantamount to terrorism.

But I am looking forward to the Big Crunch. Sounds like an awesome candy bar.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

Sorry if it sounds like I’m bullshitting here, but I was starting to suspect it was MRAL.

krtistenmh: You’re right. I am a dude.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

kristinmh: Holy shit did I spell your name wrong. Sorry!

Moewicus
Moewicus
9 years ago

That was pretty good, MRAL.

And David, I must protest. As you know, I am Men’s Rights Space Pope. Maybe you don’t realize this, but that makes Lieutenant an ecclesiastical position.

Haec Dixit Spatio Papa

Pecunium
9 years ago

Wasn’t there a play or something written long ago about this? Right before that culture turned to dust?

Lessee… Aristophanes “Lysistrata” (written in Greek, the root alphabet of Cyrillic) is dated at 411 BC. So if you want to say that, 2,400 years is “right before that culture turned to dust” I guess you NWO is right.

If we look merely to the time of Greek being the dominant culture in it’s area, well the Classical Period ends ca 320 BC, which is about 100 years after the play, but there was a resurgence when Rome moved it’s capital to Greece, and the Greeks took over the Roman Empire, with Byzantium lasting until the 1400s.

So yeah, “right before that culture turned to dust” a guy wrote a satirical play about how to end a war that was destroying the economy, and the culture, and that culture flourished.

Pecunium
9 years ago

AntzOnce again, just astounded. Several of you have looked at the posters. You know, in your hearts, that this is wrong. Why not say so?

I don’t think it’s wrong. I don’t know if it’s the right time, or the best way, but I don’t think it wrong.

My heart of hearts is just fine with it.

If I have sons, I am not at all concerned with them being taught such things, because I intend to teach them such things.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

this one was so bad–and funny –that it had to be a Poe.

I don’t even know what you’d call it when someone professes slightly exaggerated versions of their own beliefs in a hilarious way… It wasn’t extreme enough to be sarcastic, but it wasn’t insincere enough to be true Poetry either. Huh. Maybe the word I’m looking for is just “inept.” :p

JohnnyBB
JohnnyBB
9 years ago

Well, I’m sure MRAL is wheezing with laughter about how he trolled us all!

comrade svilova
comrade svilova
9 years ago

Wow, that’s a lot funnier and smarter than I would have expected. Nicely done, MRAL!

Eneya
9 years ago

Anthony, you come to a website in which MRA horrific comments are exposed and mocked but you have never seen this word I used as an example used before? How exactly? You kept your eyes shut while reading this blog, avoiding the examples of misogyny exemplified?

In regards to “men build the world” I am having this picture of half-crying drunk poe saying “it’s true, it’s true”. Say… what have you ever created yourself? Or… you know, gender is somehow assigning you to feel superior because some people from the same gender did some awesome stuff? Then why not burrying your head in shame because of all of the shit that again men did? PEOPLE did awesome studd and horrible stuff as well. Why do you feel the need to deny that?

Also, Anthony agreed only ONE page ago that there actually capable women scientist who have done quite a lot and have been recognised for that.
The world in your head is scary and unpleasant in which people hate each other because of their gender solely…

It actually looks like MRA simply don’t listen to each other if the others say anything that is not ‘women suck’ teritory.

Gen
Gen
9 years ago

Wow, MRAL, I are impressed. *gholfclap*

Dee
Dee
9 years ago

Late to the party, but as a long time retail and public service employee, if you can’t handle angry people yelling at you for something you didn’t do and had no say in, then you need to toughen up, kiddo.

It sucks, but them’s the breaks. That’s the job.

blitzgal
9 years ago

Lessee… Aristophanes “Lysistrata” (written in Greek, the root alphabet of Cyrillic) is dated at 411 BC. So if you want to say that, 2,400 years is “right before that culture turned to dust” I guess you NWO is right.

This entire takedown was so sexy. Too bad he won’t learn a damned thing from it.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Historical accuracy is for pussies!

Jack Donovan
9 years ago

This is kind of funny. Yeah, you extrapolated a lot to make it sound like my whole post was about me whining about not being able to punch customers.

The original post–something I edited OUT of my upcoming book but liked enough to share with my readers–really had to do with the whole “End of Men” discussion that has been in the media, and the refrain that men are going to have to “man up” and learn to like kinds of work that (admittedly) suck for anyone, but which really run contrary to everything that men have evolved to be, and what men want to be. I said that women are better at customer service jobs, and the likes of Hanna Rosin et al. seem pretty proud of that. I said that it seems likely that, as has been proven in the context of sporting events, etc., that men get a testosterone drop after they are provoked and back down. I suggested that would make an interesting study.

None of that fit your running narrative, of course.

I used a personal anecdote, because it was a recent experience that was fresh in my mind. I never bragged about being an “alpha.” You inferred that I was saying I was an “alpha.” I generally like my job and do what I do by choice. I was talking about the bigger issue about how men fit into managerial and service economies–an obvious problem that many feminists have addressed.

I am not an MRA. A lot of MRAs hate my guts, actually. I think the concept of “men’s rights” is a non-starter, and at best can only gain men another place at the identity group grievance table. But I’m sure no matter what my actual viewpoint is, though, you’ll be able to turn it into a cartoon that folks here can titter about. And that’s OK.

Trollin'MRAs
Trollin'MRAs
9 years ago

It’s nice that you piss off MRAs, that’s always fun.

Is David right about you contributing to The Spearhead? When you associate yourself with that site, of course you’re going to get labelled a woman-hater.

Amnesia
Amnesia
9 years ago

The original post–something I edited OUT of my upcoming book but liked enough to share with my readers–really had to do with the whole “End of Men” discussion that has been in the media, and the refrain that men are going to have to “man up” and learn to like kinds of work that (admittedly) suck for anyone, but which really run contrary to everything that men have evolved to be, and what men want to be. I said that women are better at customer service jobs, and the likes of Hanna Rosin et al. seem pretty proud of that.

So, men haven’t evolved to deal with people in general, and women are just naturally better at the most stressful and least rewarding jobs. Excuses, excuses.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

learn to like kinds of work that (admittedly) suck for anyone

but which really run contrary to everything that men have evolved to be

You’re an idiot with a poor knowledge of prehistorical society and living conditions. We didn’t have the time for the idiotic dimorphism you think happened. *EVERYONE* gathered, and hunting, as rarely as it was done, was a gender neutral task handled by everyone best suited to it, male or female.

and what men want to be.

Because women want to, as you put it, grovel and beg to people who ‘fake game’ (BTW, Game is voodoo).

I said that women are better at customer service jobs, and the likes of Hanna Rosin et al. seem pretty proud of that.

It is something that women’s socialization better prepares us for; that doesn’t mean it suddenly magically stops sucking, it means we’re on average more likely to be used to that kind of shitty social situation.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Oh bother. That should say.
“Good start” after the first blockquote.

And really, this is how you want to not be recognized as a misogynist? Play up Game, pretend men are better, pretend that grovelling is women’s place…? Do you know what misogyny means?

To be fair, you’re also an asshole to ‘Beta Men’, because that’s *totally* a thing. Seriously, get a better lens of looking at the world.

And you said you editted it out of your book because it was off topic, not because it wasn’t true, so I don’t know why you’re using that to your advantage.

Anonymous age 69
Anonymous age 69
9 years ago

>>hunting, as rarely as it was done, was a gender neutral task handled by everyone best suited to it, male or female.

Earth’s Children was feminist fantasy, not a history book.

There are still hunter-gatherer tribes on the planet, and the women do not EVER hunt with the men.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Shut the fuck up, Rutee. It’s entirely reasonable to conjecture that men may, on the whole, find customer service jobs more difficult to bear than women. Is it accurate? I don’t know, maybe, maybe not, but given, well, all of history, such speculation doesn’t make Donovan “an idiot”.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

You’ve got a point, MRAL. If men have been taught that their proper place is In Charge, it may in fact be harder for them to deal with being taken down a peg.

Like I said much earlier, I think some customers are too abusive for anyone to deal with. But the attitude “I don’t deserve this because I’m a human being with feelings” is a different thing from “I don’t deserve this because I’m an important person and this is a job for little people.”

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

@Holly: Why are you arguing with MRAL? Don’t you know he has a high IQ? We women should clearly be doing all the customer service jobs — those little ladies sure can take a (metaphorical) punch! — and leaving the philosophy and science and history for the menfolk. Because testosterone.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

It’s not that I think men feel the need to be In Charge, that’s a strawman. It’s that they probably have a greater instinct for confrontation (what Donovan calls “fight”), while women have a greater instinct for “flight”. Obviously in a job that basically demands deference and aheres to the philosophy “the customer is always right”, “flight” is better suited for an employee.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

Yeah, I could see how socialization could better prepare women for dealing with the public. Girls are taught that being nice means being meek and compliant, and that being assertive is okay in small doses but you can’t be too assertive or people will call you the b word. These are actually good skills to have if you’re supposed to meet customer demands and keep them happy. However, it can be harmful when dealing with abusive customers.

The girl at Wal-Mart described how the customer screamed slurs at her and threatened violence towards her, all because he didn’t have a receipt to return an item. That was his fault, not hers. Honestly, he probably broke the law with his behavior, but she meekly endured it and then ran to the bathroom to cry. When I waited tables in high school, I remember customers asking such questions like “Are you legal? Tee hee” or tell me some obscene way to earn a bigger tip. I didn’t put up with it and would report such nonsense to my manager. I’m not sure if those same asshole customers would have behaved so badly towards men or not.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

It’s not that I think men feel the need to be In Charge, that’s a strawman. It’s that they probably have a greater instinct for confrontation (what Donovan calls “fight”), while women have a greater instinct for “flight”.

Yeah, I guess I buy this. Mr. Al is right: Men are such instinctual beings that they cannot at all control themselves and act appropriately to the situation if their hormones or their tempers flare (as they often do). It’s amazing that they’re allowed out into society at all!

Obviously in a job that basically demands deference and aheres to the philosophy “the customer is always right”, “flight” is better suited for an employee.

I wonder why expensive restaurants tend to employ male waiters, then? Must be lotsa fist fights and tusslin at your upper-end steak joints.

Of course, as a restaurant owner, I might prefer a server who runs away, leaving the table waiting indefinitely for their check, to one who bloodies their noses, but only barely.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Although, now that I’m thinking about it, most of the rude employees I’ve encountered are women, and the men are generally more friendly, so you know what, I don’t know. I think perhaps evolutionary history taken on its own would indicate women are superior at customer service jobs, BUT, in recent years, women have been taught arrogance and extreme entitlement to the extent that the biological aspect of it has been cancelled out.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

Aha, it’s another MRM contradiction. Usually, MRA’s keep talking about how all women are actually very violent, and all men are innocent victims who never resort to violence except as a last resort. Now MRA’s are here to tell us women are by nature more passive and men more aggressive. Which is it?

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Ah yes. Apply women = suck to any situation and it all becomes clear …

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I think perhaps evolutionary history taken on its own would indicate women are superior at customer service jobs,

I laughed pretty hard at this, and I have a high IQ.

WE POLITELY ANSWERED THE MAMMOTH’S CONCERNS ABOUT ITS ACCOUNT BALANCE FOR YOU

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I just answered that question, BM.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Holly, I don’t see what’s so funny about that. It’s a logical extrapolation.In a lawless world similar to that of the early humans (or the apocalyptic scenario that MRAs often fantasize about) it’s true that women’s arrogance would disappear REAL FAST. I don’t want that to happen though, because I would miss the computer.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

In a lawless world similar to that of the early humans (or the apocalyptic scenario that MRAs often fantasize about) it’s true that women’s arrogance would disappear REAL FAST.

Early humans were lawless, but they weren’t monstrous. They lived in tribes (apes live in tribes), and if you fucked with the tribe, you were on your own–which is to say you’re pretty much lion food. Rape or beat women who have allies in your tribe? Lion food. Start lots of fights with other men? Lion food.

In a scenario where only group cooperation is keeping you fed and un-lion-eaten, men can’t afford arrogance either.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

Although, now that I’m thinking about it, most of the rude employees I’ve encountered are women, and the men are generally more friendly, so you know what, I don’t know.

Rudeness is subjective, MRAL. My mom thinks it’s rude if hairdressers don’t chat with her while she gets her hair done. I don’t care about whether or not they make small talk with me. My dad thinks it’s rude when customer service people put him on hold during phone calls, but I don’t mind it. What kind of rudeness do you notice from female employees that you don’t from male employees? Do you perhaps have different expectations from men and women?

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Regarding rudeness, it’s helpful to remember that Mr. Al wanted to do harm to a woman of his acquaintance for being so rude as to say hi to him in a way that he deemed not friendly enough.

So yeah. There’s that.