Every day, it seems, I learn a little bit more about the oppression of men. Recently, for example, I learned that men who are working customer service jobs are oppressed because they are prohibited from punching their customers, even when these customers are really, really annoying, and possibly even ladies. At least that’s the lesson I took from a recent Facebook posting by MRA and frequent Spearhead contributor Jack Donovan. Here’s Jack:
Men want to carry their own weight, but to do so, they may have to take a job which requires them to choose “flight” over “fight” as part of their regular duties. All customer service oriented jobs, for instance, require men to take abuse from … someone who is angrily issuing insults and challenge cues … and reply submissively.
Even worse is when some of these poor men, like Jack, are natural “alphas” forced to take these beta-ass jobs because for some reason the people in charge of hiring haven’t recognized their awesome alphaness:
It would be interesting to see someone do a study tracking the testosterone levels of “alpha” type men who would not choose a customer service job, but who were forced to take a position where they had to apologize and beg forgiveness from abusive women and “betas” all day.
It’s almost like you have to act as if the customer is always right!
As a man who had blood in his face for *several hours* after having to hold my tongue while I was screamed at by a neurotic old female customer this week, the physical effects were pretty noticeable in the short term. I was murderously furious for hours and then emotionally exhausted and kind of depressed through the next day.
Wouldn’t it have been better for everyone – with the possible exception of the old lady, of course, and the rest of the customers, and maybe the firm employing Mr. Donovan – if he could have chosen “fight” instead of “flight,” and just popped that old bat in the nose? Problem fucking solved!
Let’s just shut down the economy and the judicial system for a day or two while we work out a way that Mr. Donovan can just punch people without any consequences. Because he’s an alpha, damn it, and he really shouldn’t be hemmed in by petty “laws” and “social conventions” and “moral codes” clearly meant for betas and ladies and other losers.
EDITED TO ADD: Donovan has responded to this post in the comments here. He says he’s not an MRA, so I’ve edited out that part. (I did find his Facebook post through a link on the MR subreddit, FWIW.)
I should clarify that Donovan did not talk directly about punching people; he talked about the “fight or flight” instinct.
If we’re to accept their theory about “alphas” as a given, surely there’s no way that one would ever end up in a customer service job anyway?
Also, again going by their theory, I can tell you right now that not a single one of these guys is an “alpha”. I know some men who actually fit that stereotype, and they’re not this whiny. Or angry, since if you’re a natural leader people tend to naturally defer to you. The problem with these guys is that the want and expect people to defer to them, but nobody does because they don’t exactly radiate competence and leadership abilities, and so they walk around in a permanent snit that no one is giving them what they think is their due.
Cassandra, I agree. Some of those self described alphas appear to be suffering from delusions of grandeur. It’s probably why they’re so whiny that they’re not dating supermodels. They see themselves as George Clooney, but the rest of the world does not.
I replied to his drivel. I know I shouldn’t have, because he might attack me (not physically, of course), but I couldn’t help myself. Here’s what I said:
“Looks like this sort of job isn’t for you. You might want to try a job that doesn’t involve people skills, seeing as how all you do is generalize the very people you’re supposed to help (especially women and so-called “betas”). Believe it or not, women work in this industry, too, and some men are equally annoying customers. If you’re such an “alpha” then go do something else with your life.”
I hate myself sometimes.
Edit: I ended up deleting my comment. I realized that I don’t want to be stalked on the Internetz; he’d probably try to leave nasty comments on my blog or Amazon reviews or something. Ugh.
Maybe he should try negging the customers. You know, to “depedestalyze” them. According to PUA “gurus”, gratuitous insults never fail to make women drop their panties right then and there, so it should be an effective trick to play on customers, right?
Just picture the typical exchange:
Angry Beta-Male Customer: My internet and cable haven’t worked for a week! When are you people going to send somebody to fix it? You bunch of imbeciles! I pay $100 a month for your fucking incompetence. Don’t even THINK about billing me for the days when service was out.
Suave Alpha-Male PUA: Calm down, sir. What do you need the internet for, anyway? Cookie recipes? Dick enlargement secrets? Tips on how to trim your pink tutu with cat fur?
Angry Beta-Male Customer: Ehh … okay. Say, dear Sir, is there any way to change my plan so that I can pay more money and get less service? I just feel so … drawn to you
He is also, in all probability a racist; and white supremacist.
The words, “blood in the face” is a dog whistle for, “white”, as (so say the idiots who believe this sort of racist nonsense) only whites can flush with rage/blush /etc., because only they are pale enough for it to show.
@Amused
Well, since he is an Alpha, he wouldn’t use Game. Only lowly Betas use Game, don’t you know that?
Just catching up here. A bunch of comments from first-time commenters were in moderation; they’re up now. Also a bunch of comments from delta/nugganu, which were in moderation because he’s a raging asshole. I let some of his slightly-less-terrible comments through.
Sam, I know you suck at reading comprehension and all, but no, nobody believes you. And fuck, off creeper.
“If you’re anywhere near 30 and you are still doing customer service, I think it’s time you resign yourself to the fact that you’re basically a complete failure in life. If you’re female, to remedy this, you need to find a man of means to take care of you and marry him.”
Women: learning new skills is never an option! Ever! 😛
I’m so sorry … I was delighted to find your webpage, but sad you drew any attention at all to this prima donna of the world of victimized men. I truly believe we have failed men, but not in the way he spews. Men have failed men, and us women have been busy trying to play catch up with our own gender issues. Wot a complete and total prat he is .. I’m sorry that I know of his existence, but I’m happy to have found this page. Hi!
Delta is amusingly stupid. I wonder what he does for a living?
Hmm. I suppose I should have been more clear in the OP that dealing with asshole customers really does suck, and that this does, as Jack says, have a psychological and physical toll on people working jobs that require interacting with assholes on a regular basis.
It’s just, as Rutee noted, that he seems to think this only matters to “alpha males,” and that others in the same situation should just accept it as their lot in life.
My feeling is that pretty much every job involves a certain degree of unpleasant shit, whether that’s biting your tongue, or doing tedious shit you don’t want to do. Some jobs involve that a lot more than other jobs. No one can expect to be spared from this simply because they’re dudes who think they’re alphas.
As for the punching thing, I sort of extrapolated that from his comments about “fight or flight.” I mean, if you’re not choosing “flight” and acting submissive, the alternative is “fight” Maybe I’m being too literal. It’s possible he only wants to be able to rage at the customers and scare the shit out of them and make them flee the store.
Well, there are also the 4 F’s: fighting, fleeing, feeding and mating. So I guess he could want to engage in a little customer cannibalism? Suffice it to say I’d rather be punched or chewed on than endure the last option. :p
Hm. I read it as “the situation activates the fight or flight mechanism but does not allow the healthy outlet of the instincts.” It wouldn’t be the first time an MRA type longed for the ability to straight up punch people with impunity, but I think he gets the benefit of the doubt until he actually says the ridiculous thing.
One of the reasons I don’t do weddings (as a photographer) is the customers. The weight/strain of “getting it right” (i.e. not missing whatever singular moment they can’t live without) is a royal pain in the ass. One either has them micromanaging every little thing, or one has to fake it.
So, by and large, I don’t do weddings. When I do agree to do one, it’s as the second (non, “important”) photographer, shooting what I think are interesting moments.
If I get the rings, the kiss and the bouquet, great. If don’t, well that’s why they paid the other one, and s/he can deal with the angry. I also have less pain in terms of follow up (a wedding has about 40 man hours of work at the back end. That’s why a 6 month turnaround is good for a dedicated wedding photographer).
Oh, please. You guys are ridiculously easy to spot. You pretend that you only go after teenagers because they are naturally “hotter,” but let’s face it — you go after teens because they aren’t worldly enough to see you coming from a mile away.
And the reason they don’t spout the kinds of hate-filled screeds that you’ve posted on this website is because you’re far too much of a coward to actually say any of this shit to someone’s face. All you can manage to do is hide behind the anonymity of the internet.
Dealing with people. What a bummer. (Maybe these “alphas” should move to Mars where they’d only have to deal with Martians?)
Good luck finding a job where you don’t have to deal with other people. (Digging holes and then filling them up again? Some kind of super-geek lab job?)
I mean, come on, we most of us have to deal with customers, either first-hand or at a distance, and we have to deal with subordinates, equals and superiors, all of whom are people.
Grow up. This has nothing to do with the Greek alphabet (“alpha”) and everything to do with people skills, and, dare I say it, with being a nice person yourself. Who knew.
“I’m not an active MRA but I do study game in order to bed women, so you’ve probably met guys hundreds of guys who are loosely aware of the MRA life, they just aren’t going to mention it whilst trying to get down your pants at that tasty vag of yours.”
Ew. I think, as a courtesy to the next woman you’re trying to bed, you should make sure to use the phrase “tasty vag of yours” in conversation. Then she will know for sure that you’re a creep, and you’ll be able to make an informed decision.
gah… “she’ll be able” would probably make more sense there.
We women out here have pretty good radar. The phrase “tasty vag of yours” should be enough to alert the dumbest woman about what the goal is here.
This guy obviously hasn’t learned the fine art of objectivity when dealing with people.
Although, I would show up for more meetings if i thought there might be a fist fight between marketing and sales. And the streets ran red with blood!
Sir – I don’t mean to, how you say, “rain on your parade”, but you do understand that men are naturally the more aggressive sex? We are the gender of innovation, of creation, and of curiosity. This means that we as men are best suited to grand occupations like scientist, doctor, inventor… the world rests on our shoulders. Women, on the other hand, may be more suited to jobs involving tedious repetition or menial labor. We complement each other, or at least did under the Feminist Revolution and onset of Matriarchy. I do not condone actually striking people, but I certainly understand where Mr. Donovan is coming from. He- as well as other men in the United States of Matriarchy- are being forced into jobs they are simply too… grand for, I suppose. He feels the male urge to create, and it goes unsatisfied.
Re Delta’s comment: Look on the bright side, everybody. Our usual brand of trolls talk about Teh Vag as a horrible, possibly radioactive place that will instantly kill a man if he touches it or looks at it; trolls who, if they ever go to bed with a woman, probably do so clad in a welder’s face shield and gloves, and equipped with some barbecue tongs. Not so with Delta. He at least seems to be vaguely aware that lots of men enjoy going down. Progress!!
I am soooo sorry to just go way, wayyyyyyy off topic like this but this is far too delicious to pass up. Go to this link and read it.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/10/12/international/i134605D99.DTL
Women withholding sex for roads. That’s right. Are all women hookers? Do all women use sex for profit and coersion? The answer is a resounding yes, yes, yes!
Can ya spin this one into misogyny?
Can ya make excuses for this?
I’ll bet you can.
I can hear the excuses now,
“Oh those poor women just wanted a road, that lazy evil men wouldn’t build for them.”
“They just used whatever they could to make it better for everyone.”
C’mon spin-doctors, lets hear it?