Every day, it seems, I learn a little bit more about the oppression of men. Recently, for example, I learned that men who are working customer service jobs are oppressed because they are prohibited from punching their customers, even when these customers are really, really annoying, and possibly even ladies. At least that’s the lesson I took from a recent Facebook posting by MRA and frequent Spearhead contributor Jack Donovan. Here’s Jack:
Men want to carry their own weight, but to do so, they may have to take a job which requires them to choose “flight” over “fight” as part of their regular duties. All customer service oriented jobs, for instance, require men to take abuse from … someone who is angrily issuing insults and challenge cues … and reply submissively.
Even worse is when some of these poor men, like Jack, are natural “alphas” forced to take these beta-ass jobs because for some reason the people in charge of hiring haven’t recognized their awesome alphaness:
It would be interesting to see someone do a study tracking the testosterone levels of “alpha” type men who would not choose a customer service job, but who were forced to take a position where they had to apologize and beg forgiveness from abusive women and “betas” all day.
It’s almost like you have to act as if the customer is always right!
As a man who had blood in his face for *several hours* after having to hold my tongue while I was screamed at by a neurotic old female customer this week, the physical effects were pretty noticeable in the short term. I was murderously furious for hours and then emotionally exhausted and kind of depressed through the next day.
Wouldn’t it have been better for everyone – with the possible exception of the old lady, of course, and the rest of the customers, and maybe the firm employing Mr. Donovan – if he could have chosen “fight” instead of “flight,” and just popped that old bat in the nose? Problem fucking solved!
Let’s just shut down the economy and the judicial system for a day or two while we work out a way that Mr. Donovan can just punch people without any consequences. Because he’s an alpha, damn it, and he really shouldn’t be hemmed in by petty “laws” and “social conventions” and “moral codes” clearly meant for betas and ladies and other losers.
EDITED TO ADD: Donovan has responded to this post in the comments here. He says he’s not an MRA, so I’ve edited out that part. (I did find his Facebook post through a link on the MR subreddit, FWIW.)
I should clarify that Donovan did not talk directly about punching people; he talked about the “fight or flight” instinct.
What part of my post did you not read, MRAL? Or maybe what part of his? I wouldn’t be surprised if on average, women were better prepared for customer service. But chalking it up to biology and not culture is a grossly stupid idea. I know I shouldn’t taunt an illiterate like this, but learn to fucking read.
Oh, and I should add perhaps; I can’t come up with an explanatory mechanism for it, but it’s certainly possible that despite a socialization that lends itself to customer service, women on average *aren’t* as good at it. But absent serious evidence, I doubt it.
Everyone’s arrogance would, but you live in an alternate reality where arrogance is solely a female trait. Because you have a high IQ (Really, your lack of self awareness is *Hilarious*)
Oh, and I haven’t noticed a gender difference in horrific customers or employees. Sometimes women are assholes, sometimes men are. The form is frequently different, but hey.
Donovan, if you are still around – there has been a study on testosterone and social status “mismatch.” Josephs (2006) I believe, journal of Personality and Social Psychology (or something like that.) Their interpretations are arguable in some cases, but it’s a nifty piece overall.
Prove it.
So you’re admitting that you have no fucking clue whether or not you are accurate, your knowledge of “all of history” extends to “I walked past an anthro lecture at one point,” and you’re telling her to shut up? Is there anything here but suck?
In the late nineteenth century in Europe, most clerking had been done by men, unless the women involved were the female relatives of the shop owner. “Shop girls” were a new development. These young women worked in department stores, which were that era’s Hot New Threat To Morality, and frequently lived on their own or with female roommates. Many conservatives thought that this was inappropriate, not because men were better suited to handling customers per se, but because women shouldn’t be talking to so many strangers at all. It made them forward. I think Hobsbawn has a section on shop-girls in The Age of Empires. Anyway, this was not only a new thing, but a new and resisted thing, at least at first (by the 1920s, the discourse around these young women had gotten much more accepting).
A biological difference doesn’t “evolve” in a little over a hundred years in only one culture area (here, the industrialized West). That’s really dumb.
They weren’t “lawless” either; everyone’s got customs that keep a lid on accepted social behavior.
Fun fact: Mbuti men refuse to have net-hunts on days when all the women are busy with something else. They just don’t think it’s worth it if no women will participate. More fun: Agta women have a better hunting success rate than the men do, even with babies strapped to their backs. Anonymous age 69, there are real anthropologists who read this blog, you know. The sexual division of labor is my specialty, too, and this stuff is not just feminist fantasy.
Also, what the hell kind of societies do MRA-types think that humans evolved in? Women weren’t the only ones carrying on social activities. Social cooperation is important for every person, male or female, and is one of the reasons we have such nice, large brains (well, some of us, anyway). Men weren’t running solitary across the veldt, occasionally wandering into a group of women and running off with one.
Rute, you’re TL;DR, FYI.
Oh, random6x7, where were you when we were trying to persuade Brandon that interdependence wasn’t a feminist plot to seperate him from his gold but the basic survival strategy of Homo sapiens?
Glad to have you on board – I think a lot of MRAs would benefit from some good anthropological smackdowns.
Thanks, kristinmh! I’ve been lurking for awhile, but don’t often post.
No comeback? I thought so.
I also find it a little telling that MRAL never responds explicitly to my posts, even though (or maybe because?) he and I share a common culture, that of the university. Maybe my presence makes him insecure? After all, I am a constant reminder to him that, from the point of view of someone whose role it is to teach people like him, he doesn’t appear to know shit.
But anyway, I still want to know what your major is, MRAL, considering that you seem to believe you can dismiss Ruttee’s posts the way you do. What do you know about evolution?
I’m imagining a mammoth trying to use a phone, and it is just not working out! Their big puffy feet!
They could use their trunks. I bet that’d make their voices sound funny, though, like when you have a cold.
I already mentioned my major is mathematics.
When I worked at Linens ‘n Things, as a front-end manager (read: cashier who also did the books), which means dealing with returns, which were the bane of our existence, I dealt with many a “guest” with ridiculous demands. And despite the store being a female-tilted thing in modern society, the assholes were 50/50. I was lucky enough to have management who would back me up, but the number of times I got screamed at for having a different return policy from BBB, I cannot tell you.
So, considering your major and “beta-ness” MRAL, you salivating for a fantasy post-apocalyptic future full of half-naked warlords and slave women “put in their place) seems kind self-destructive.
http://users.jam21.net/sandrab/Gallery%20Mad%20Max%20II%20Villains/Wez%20and%20Golden%20Youth/WezGY5.jpg
You would not be holding the crossbow in any wasteland partnership if one were to occur.
Not that I have anything against math majors, one of my best friends in UCLA is one, though he has the benefits of being a) not a misogynist and b) able to back up any macho statements of his (which he wouldn’t stupidly make to begin with).
I already said I do not want the apocalypse because I would miss the computer. Work on your reading comprehension, dumbass.
Huh I might have missed that big, you see what applies to your posts is less tl,dr and more ss,dr (same shit, didn’t read).
Nice to see you’ve got your priorities straight in regards to Armageddon though 🙂
*bit still in a fugue from last night
Mr. Kobold is so clever I forgot to laugh, oh wait, he’s not funny, he’s just an unfunny piece of rotten shit.
Gosh ,that cutting remark stings to the bone.
Quick tip: x is so x, NOT!
Isn’t the wittiest of rejoinders.
Mr. Kobold will be buttphucking a hobo within 3 years (ps he will also be a hobo)
Who pissed in your cornflakes, MRAL?
Which mature institute of learning does MRAL attend again?
Also *fucking*, unless one is desperately trying in a juvenile manner to not to get picked up for moderation, despite continual usage of slurs like “gash” in describing a women’s vagina.
And why the disdain for the homeless? I thought MRAL was an overall positive person?