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If you’re an Alpha male, shouldn’t you be allowed to just punch people who annoy you at work?

Sometimes Alpha cab drivers want to punch their customers too.

Every day, it seems, I learn a little bit more about the oppression of men. Recently, for example, I learned that men who are working customer service jobs are oppressed because they are prohibited from punching their customers, even when these customers are really, really annoying, and possibly even ladies. At least that’s the lesson I took from a recent Facebook posting by MRA and frequent Spearhead contributor Jack Donovan.  Here’s Jack:

 Men want to carry their own weight, but to do so, they may have to take a job which requires them to choose “flight” over “fight” as part of their regular duties. All customer service oriented jobs, for instance, require men to take abuse from … someone who is angrily issuing insults and challenge cues … and reply submissively.

Even worse is when some of these poor men, like Jack, are natural “alphas” forced to take these beta-ass jobs because for some reason the people in charge of hiring haven’t recognized their awesome alphaness:

It would be interesting to see someone do a study tracking the testosterone levels of “alpha” type men who would not choose a customer service job, but who were forced to take a position where they had to apologize and beg forgiveness from abusive women and “betas” all day.

It’s almost like you have to act as if the customer is always right!

As a man who had blood in his face for *several hours* after having to hold my tongue while I was screamed at by a neurotic old female customer this week, the physical effects were pretty noticeable in the short term. I was murderously furious for hours and then emotionally exhausted and kind of depressed through the next day.

Wouldn’t it have been better for everyone – with the possible exception of the old lady, of course, and the rest of the customers, and maybe the firm employing Mr. Donovan – if he could have chosen “fight” instead of “flight,” and just popped that old bat in the nose? Problem fucking solved!

Let’s just shut down the economy and the judicial system for a day or two while we work out a way that Mr. Donovan can just punch people without any consequences. Because he’s an alpha, damn it, and he really shouldn’t be hemmed in by petty “laws” and “social conventions” and “moral codes” clearly meant for betas and ladies and other losers.

EDITED TO ADD: Donovan has responded to this post in the comments here. He says he’s not an MRA, so I’ve edited out that part.  (I did find his Facebook post through a link on the MR subreddit, FWIW.)

I should clarify that Donovan did not talk directly about punching people; he talked about the “fight or flight” instinct.

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JenniferP
JenniferP
9 years ago

Kind of makes you question the whole “alpha” thing, right?

kariface
kariface
9 years ago

I work customer service and I have a vagina and I sometimes want to punch people… am I oppressed too?

Eneya
9 years ago

I worked for some time in customer service.
Believe me, the ammount of idiotic stuff I have encountered would be sufficent for a lifetime.
And even worse, I was supporting people who were having troubles with their computers. The picture was surely not pretty.

Punching people rarely resolves issues… actually, scratch that, I think it never works, not really in the long run.
If one is such a smuck that can’t convince an old lady (truly the stuff of noghtmares… what an alpha ladies and gentleman) maybe they should change their job to something that is not customer service?

Clients are rude, entitled, boring and do not listen and water is wet.

It sounds to me that this dude has issues with a culture which approves of customer abuse and the whole alpha stuff is just for him not feeling like a complete loser for not being able to work anything better than custommer support.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Abusive customers really do tear you up emotionally, and the stress on customer service workers stuck in an “all the responsibility and none of the power” position can be obscene. So I sympathize with that.

But boo fucking hoo that you’re an Alpha getting abused by Betas and–gasp–women. (How do you even know that someone is a Beta on brief interaction? Do you sniff his ass? Check for a silverback? Mount him and see if he submits?) It’s yet another case where MRAs have the seeds of a legitimate grievance, but choose to take that legitimacy to Asshole Town with “I should be treated like a powerful dominant creature because I have two balls and no manners!”

Customer service workers shouldn’t be put in a position where they’re continuously faced with problems they have no power to solve, and they should be empowered to hang up on or kick out truly abusive customers. Whether they’re a big important Alpha who won’t deign to deal with lesser beings is not part of this equation.

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

Other Girlfriend works the ticket counter for an airline.
Oh, the stories she tells…

blitzgal
9 years ago

And OF COURSE the abusive customer is a woman. Why am I not at all shocked.

I worked as a grocery store cashier for three years. I had countless men demand that I smile for them. I had an old man physically pick up and throw the next customer’s groceries off the belt because he couldn’t understand that if he just let his items come to the front, the mechanical eye would make it stop. I had men refuse to believe my answer to their questions about prices or sales until I got a male manager to tell them the exact same thing.

I had one abusive female customer. She threw a bag of groceries at my head because the check-printing machine ate her check and I had to get a manager’s key to open the register and retrieve it.

Jack’s right that service workers get abused by customers. His framing of the issue as part of some bullshit “battle of the sexes” is a load of crap, though.

Also, be nice to your service workers. We’re people, too.

Nezumi
Nezumi
9 years ago

Uhm… I… I’m trying to think of something snarky to say about this, but I’m just taken aback. Who can actually support this sort of thing?

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Isn’t he the gay guy who calls himself an androphile and detests other queer ppl and is transphobic? xD

He’s the one who said if Michaelangelo was born in this time, he’d be forced to make signs for gay pride parade and to become a hairdresser… >_> (and apparently would then have a deep seated desire to inflict violence on his customers)

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

I heard a Wal-Mart employee crying in the bathroom a few weeks ago. Some other employees were consoling her and giving her tissues. She described how an irate customer cussed her out and called her some names I can’t repeat. I don’t think verbal abuse should be part of a job. Some customers are on a power trip, and love how they are allowed to bully people in low paying jobs. However, that doesn’t mean an employee needs to respond to the idiocy with physical assault. They should be allowed to complain to their bosses, and have make customers leave when they throw violent temper tantrums. In high school, I waited tables at a restaurant, and our boss was very protective of his employees. If customers verbally abused us or sexually harassed us, they were kicked out. More businesses need to do that.

JohnnyBB
JohnnyBB
9 years ago

The trick, I think, would be to not let your work consume you and to find outlets for your stress. What I think is interesting is that they romanticize an imaginary era when jobs didn’t involve taking shit from people. Jobs have always involved taking shit from people for all but a small portion of the population, and not being able to retaliate physically.

vacuumslayer
9 years ago

He turns an issue that many of us can relate to into some nonsensical asshole rant. I don’t get it. Can’t you just vent about your sucky job like a normal person?

Kes
Kes
9 years ago

See, at first I read “blood on his face for *several hours*” and I was wondering if the story ended with him punching the old lady and then leaving the blood there (on his face) for several hours afterwards, as a warning to the others.

That would have been a better story. Just sayin’.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

I think you’ve really hit the nail on the head, Holly Pervocracy. It’s not that there aren’t legitimate grievances about service positions buried in there. It’s that he thinks that’s fine for other, lesser people, but he’s entitled to just. so. much. more. On account of his magnificent penis! All worship the penis!

Off-topic, I’m new here 🙂 seems like a fun place!

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

Maybe the phrase “The customer is always right” needs to have a disclaimer of *within reason added to it.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

…and then a bunch of other people hit the same nail on the same head, and I didn’t give any of you credit because apparently I hadn’t refreshed the page in a long time! Commenting is so hard 🙁

Brandon
Brandon
9 years ago

I have had a few customer support and help desk support jobs. Dealing with annoying and irate customers is part of the job. If you don’t like the treatment you are getting, the solution is to find a job where you don’t have to do customer service or deals less with the public directly. Punching people isn’t going to fix anything.

Why limit it to just alphas? I am sure there are a bunch of betas that would like to punch an irate customer but don’t.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Hey, Jack, welcome to the working world. You’re always gonna have to eat shit, be it in an office or a CS position. Other than that, this is standard MRA “wah! Life’s not faaaaaair” whining.

There’s just no need to be a dick to anyone.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

At the court I work at, if you are rude to the clerks you get to talk to the judge. If you are still rude, you get to an all expenses paid trip to the Arpaio Hilton.

Well not really all expenses paid, the judge can order you to pay your incarceration costs.

The judge used to work in customer service and backs up any clerk 100%.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

I don’t think we should just say customer abuse should be an acceptable part of a job, though. It’s one thing to deal with an irate customer, but if they make threatening comments then they cross the line. I also don’t think customers should be allowed to make lewd comments and grope employees either. Not enough businesses define what kind of behavior is or isn’t allowed, and it’s wrong that workers sometimes endure abuse and harassment and believe it’s just a normal part of having a job. A workplace that refuses to protect its employees might be setting itself up for a lawsuit.

Leo Salloum
Leo Salloum
9 years ago

A lot of posters have already mentioned that the abuse of customer service workers is NOT OKAY, and it’s pretty hard to disagree with that. Jack Donovan is displaying a shocking amount of blindness when he says that abuse of customer service workers is okay just as long as it’s not against him. It’s even less okay if women do it.

This reminds me of One Flew Over a Cuckoo’s Nest — anyone read this story lately? The first time I read it, I thought it was awesome. It was a terrible story about someone who is being mistreated by an unfeeling system. Then I reread it as an adult. It turns out that it’s (kind of) a story about a straight white man who is being subjugated by blacks and women instead of being given his proper respect.

It’s still a great story, mind you. And in the same way, I would say that Jack Donovan’s complaint is a very legitimate one. But we need to remember that a poor woman who spends forty years in customer service, bottling up more rage than Jack Donovan will ever have to face, has an even more legitimate complaint than he does. And there are millions of women like that.

The physical effects that he describes, depression and exhaustion, these are real. And they have measurable impacts on population-wide health outcomes. Not just for alphas, but for everyone.

Delta
9 years ago

I’ve certainly taken my fair share of abuse from women in customer service – even though I’m a good tipper, and spend money in a friend of mine’s pub, his female staff are totally bitter, and let’s face it, most people aren’t cut out for customer service. In their case, they are usually single, pushing 30, and are still working in a pub, waiting for someone to discover them and make them a model/actress/singer, because they are oooooh sooooo talented.

No real alpha male would work in customer service, and most certainly wouldn’t let anyone get to him so much that he felt his only recourse was to punch someone in the face.

Kollege Messerschmitt
9 years ago

Viscaria:
Welcome 😀 And don’t worry, I think many of the posters here experienced the situation that the discussion has long moved on since they last refreshed.
And I agree: Donovan brought up a legitimate point, but swiftly turned it into this weird alpha-bullshit.

Ami:
Oh, it’s that guy?
Wasn’t he also super obsessed with manliness and masculinity, while hating everything remotely “feminine”?
One would think that a customer service job would be too “girly” for him in itself. I guess that doubles the frustration of being treated unfairly and not being able to punch things and people.

Nezumi
Nezumi
9 years ago

… Seriously… he… says he should be allowed to attack obnoxious customers… I… what? No, seriously, what?

shaenon
9 years ago

I work customer service and I have a vagina and I sometimes want to punch people… am I oppressed too?

Of course not. Taking shit from people is women’s (and possibly lesser men’s) work.

Kave
Kave
9 years ago

I have a rather strange thing I say when dealing with clients who are irrational. I pause and then say in different words depending on the situation “why are being so mean to me”.

If I phased it as ” you’re coming across as very aggressive can we step back from that” the response will be “I’m not”. It works wonders, if the voice raises again it’s easy to say that your stepping into unacceptable behavior.

I have a policy at my job, some people are not meant to be our clients.

I had a employee who had a dashboard thrown at her where the thrower wanted it replaced immediately because there was a scuff mark. She was a sales person and on commission. I still love her answer: “Dude I will pay you out of pocket what I have in my wallet to go away and expect an assault charge ”

There are a lot of companies that let customer service workers take abuse. I’ve heard MRA’s say that women are the abusive clients. I work in trucking, the boating industry etc. Next to no women in either, I do plastic forming for toys for boys. Can be very abusive.

The good thing is there are no MRA’s except for the few maybe 300 out of a population of a billion. Never met one in real life so I would guess it’s not a popular movement.

Delta
9 years ago

If you’re anywhere near 30 and you are still doing customer service, I think it’s time you resign yourself to the fact that you’re basically a complete failure in life. If you’re female, to remedy this, you need to find a man of means to take care of you and marry him. But don’t wait too long, as once a female reaches 30, so beings the steady decline in sexual market value. This is important because the female who in this predicament has little to trade on but her looks. As your 30’s progress, your SMV will begin to plummet rapidly, and so too, your odds at landing a man dumb enough to marry and support you. Contrarily, if you are a man and still doing this sort of work, well, what can I say, you have failed miserably.

Joanna
9 years ago

I hate not being able to punch people in customer service. It’s ok Jack! I feel your pain!

Delta
9 years ago

Kate – you probably haven’t met any MRAs because I’m none of the more devoted ones bother with women much. I’m not an active MRA but I do study game in order to bed women, so you’ve probably met guys hundreds of guys who are loosely aware of the MRA life, they just aren’t going to mention it whilst trying to get down your pants at that tasty vag of yours.

Rabbit
Rabbit
9 years ago

Ah, customer service. A special kind of hell, where you wake up in the morning disappointed you didn’t die in your sleep and you go home at night fantasizing about murdering everyone in the world. You see your future spread out before you like an endless nightmare, 40 years worth of angry faces and crying yourself to sleep. Sometimes you want to beat the customer into a bloody pulp, and the rest of the time you just want to put a bullet in your own brain. No, customer service isn’t fun. Yes, I most certainly understand the emotions described in this guy’s post. No, it doesn’t have a damn fucking thing to go with the gener or alphaness of the customer in question.

If I didn’t need the health insurance, I’d be out of here so fast my boss’s head would be spining. But, I do need it, and so here I am. Too bad the mental health services it provides are worse than useless. -eyeroll- None of the mental health professionals in my town accept referrals from my office’s program, so it’s basically just there so they can say they have it. I get REALLY fucking resentful of my boyfriend when I start thinking about this topic. He’s Native, and therefore received FREE fucking service for all of his health care needs. FREE! If I could get free health care, I’d take a significant pay cut in order never to have to work with customers again. But I don’t, because of all this white privilege I have that does me so much good here in the ass end of nowhere. [ / bitter ]

At leat cubicle customer service is better than retail customer service. Thank God for small mercies, eh? I suppose I should be grateful I even have a job. The internet tends to not be very forgiving/understanding of work-related complaints these days, with so many people still out of work. At least, in the US.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

See, at first I read “blood on his face for *several hours*” and I was wondering if the story ended with him punching the old lady and then leaving the blood there (on his face) for several hours afterwards, as a warning to the others.

That would have been a better story. Just sayin’.

That’s how I read it too, and for a second I was way more interested — but then he was just describing his high blood pressure. Eh. You hate like half the population, bro, we know you have high blood pressure! :p

He’s Native, and therefore received FREE fucking service for all of his health care needs. FREE! If I could get free health care, I’d take a significant pay cut in order never to have to work with customers again. But I don’t, because of all this white privilege I have that does me so much good here in the ass end of nowhere.

Well, if it weren’t for us white people being murdering lying raping conquistadors then yeah, I guess you would get free health care ’cause you’d be in Europe right now. I’m sure Native people think it’s totes worth it though!

samuel2112
9 years ago

The post is gender neutral. When I was in college, I worked at a bank as a customer service rep. The rule was if a customer used profanity or abusive language, you had to warn the customer you would hang up if he or she continued. If the person repeatedly cussed, then you were allowed to hang up.

Most Customer Service jobs are difficult jobs. Whether for a phone company, bank, or any other company. Many customer service reps. are underpaid and overworked. Customers call in and often vent their frustrations on the particular representative regardless of gender.
The management of these particular companies, usually have the mindset “The Customer is always right”. So therefore, customer service representatives regardless of gender have to learn to “suck it up”. It can be a stressful job. I would tell Mr. Donovan you have to take your licks.

Lastly, I would tell Mr. Donovan that customer service representatives should be grateful they even have a job. Many customer service jobs are now being replaced by computers or voice response systems where a customer can get information by their phone pad without even speaking to someone. Also many customer service jobs in the USA are being transferred overseas to places such as India where wages are less. Stop whining Mr. Donovan. this is not a gender issue.Suck it up.

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

It’s yet another case where MRAs have the seeds of a legitimate grievance, but choose to take that legitimacy to Asshole Town with “I should be treated like a powerful dominant creature because I have two balls and no manners!”

I don’t even think MRA’s have the seeds of a legitimate grievance here because it’s not a men’s issue. Customer service workers take a lot of abuse regardless of their gender, and as far as I know, there are more female customer service workers than male ones anyway, at least in capacities that entail the maximum interaction with the company’s clientele. For all we know, what this MRA is saying here is that it is perfectly okay to treat customer service like shit, it’s just that only women and “betas” should be “forced” to take those jobs.

As to the rest — doesn’t the fact that Donovan was “forced” to work in customer service prove he’s a beta? Hey, I thought if you are alpha, you do what you want, take alpha-ish jobs, fuck the world, and not let anyone force you to do anything. I love the fluid definitions MRA’s employ. What’s the definition of “alpha” in this case — an asshole who likes punching people in the face but is “forced” not to?

Rabbit
Rabbit
9 years ago

@Bagelsan

I’m pretty sure the Russians got there first, in this particular case. Although, of course, Russians are also white, and American white people did plenty of fuckery later. You’re right, I shouldn’t have added that last sentence. It just takes away from my point that customer service sucks ass and most people who are in it are stuck with it.

(In my defence, he isn’t actually racially Native, only legally. That’s what makes it so frustrating. If my mother had been adopted, I, too, could have white privilege AND free health care. But, then again… if my consciousness had been born into one of my brother’s bodies, I wouldn’t need the health insurance in the first place, because I wouldn’t need birth control. If I hadn’t been born/raised/probably will die in a shithole small town, I’d have more options. If I hadn’t been taught that life was sunshine and roses and I could be anything I wanted to be, I wouldn’t feel so disappointed, disillusioned, and depressed now that I’ve reached adulthood and seen the truth. There’s a million “if onlys” in everyone’s life.)

True story: For the first 22 years of my life, until I started browsing feminist/sociology blogs like this one, I thought I was so emotionally unstable because I had a vagina. Now I can only attribute it to being an immature little shit who’s been sheltered by a small town life where the worst that happens is some 20-something kills themself a couple times a year and some high schoolers get into a drunk driving accident every graduation. I miss ignorance. Now my problems are my fault. :p

Wisteria
Wisteria
9 years ago

I did temp work as a phone operator for a company (now the job is probably automated). I had customers who were angry and hostile, sometimes cursing. I never noticed that women were any worse than men. Some people just consider themselves special and demand special treatment. Sometimes when I was transferring calls, I would tell callers that they were going to go to voice mail because I could see a line of customers waiting in the office. Some would yell and demand to speak to a person. Sorry, but there was no way that a customer on the phone is going to go ahead of someone who is standing in line in the office.

It could be very stressful. I never cried, but there were times when I was biting my tongue to be polite. What helped was that my coworkers were great and I could grumble to them.

I didn’t realize that my being a woman should have prevented me from feeling angry over rude customers. I guess it only matters when it’s an alpha man receiving abuse.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Thank God for small mercies, eh? I suppose I should be grateful I even have a job.

You should, but I’ve been t here.

The OP is even more stupid than David indicated; he’s trying to talk about Game and Alpha as if they’re actually established by studies and science.

And yeah, he’s basically trying to say that it’s okay these jobs are what they are for everyone else; it is only an alpha male who suffers from grovelling at the hands of egotistical power tripping customers.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

I’m pretty sure the Russians got there first, in this particular case. Although, of course, Russians are also white, and American white people did plenty of fuckery later.

I did realize that you hadn’t said where you are, but I figured that we white people probably fucked the place up at sooome point so I just went with it. :p

Your point about lack of access to healthcare stands on its own in my opinion; free healthcare should be a human right no matter a person’s legal status or ethnicity. And yeah, if a white person can’t get healthcare and dies from it they still obviously have white privilege but at that point their privilege is a bit moot for that individual on a practical level ’cause, yanno. Dead. As an academic point I mention it here, because it is worth keeping in mind even under duress, but I wouldn’t dig some poor deceased Caucasian up to lecture them about it.

And as someone who has healthcare I won’t lecture you on how to feel about it, either. That would be an asshole move.

True story: For the first 22 years of my life, until I started browsing feminist/sociology blogs like this one, I thought I was so emotionally unstable because I had a vagina. Now I can only attribute it to being an immature little shit who’s been sheltered by a small town life where the worst that happens is some 20-something kills themself a couple times a year and some high schoolers get into a drunk driving accident every graduation. I miss ignorance. Now my problems are my fault. :p

Omg, slowly-becoming-less-ignorant-sheltered-young-woman high five! It sounds like we grew up similarly, though I’ve been reading online blogs from a slightly younger age. ^^

Molly Ren
9 years ago

“Hey, I thought if you are alpha, you do what you want, take alpha-ish jobs, fuck the world, and not let anyone force you to do anything.”

Alphas must be the worse customers *ever*.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Customer service for the Post Office. I lasted four months. The threats, the ass ignorance of the customers, the dudes so pissed off about not getting any mail that they threatened to hunt me down and rape me because I couldn’t magically make envelopes appear in their mailbox… it was hell.

Molly Ren
9 years ago

er, “worst” even

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

I don’t believe that men have it any worse in customer service than women, for sure. Mostly it seems like the misery level is affected by stuff like how your boss treats you, what resources/recourse you have to deal with shitty customers, and whether or not it’s a finite job. I worked retail (UPS store) a few summers/Xmas breaks and just the fact that this was an “optional” part-time job helped me keep my cool more easily. Having some person harass you over the shipping costs of their stupid crap is waaay nicer when you can say to yourself “this too shall pass (and won’t college seem so pleasant after this)!”

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Even though I had it pretty easy — very few incidents, and my bosses (a married couple with kids) always backed me up — just that little bit of service experience has made me loads kinder to waitstaff/cashiers/customer service/etc. Not that I was ever mean to them, but now I try to go out of my way to make it clear I don’t blame them for things outside their control and that I appreciate their help and so on.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

As much as Mr. Donovan is an inexcusable asshole with delusions of grandeur (Alpha? Seriously?), shit like this is why I am very patient with customer service people. It’s tough job, and I’ve dealt with my fair of entitled jerkwads in the glamorous world of retail garden centers.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

“…my fair [share] of…”

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

(Also, if you treat people nice they are usually way more helpful, if you want to take pure empathy out of the equation! Customer service people can occasionally make your life slightly more or less frustrating; why piss them off?)

Moewicus
Moewicus
9 years ago

This bit particularly tickles me:

All customer service oriented jobs, for instance, require men to take abuse from someone feigning gameness—someone who is angrily issuing insults and challenge cues—and reply submissively.

Feigning gameness? How does the concept even apply? Does he think people whining about their telephone bills etc are trying to sleep with the customer service reps? Oh, I see, they’re feigning it because… um, some reason. Quite frankly it seems like this PUA gives people such backward concepts that they have difficulty interpreting human behavior on a fundamental level.

BTW, I don’t get the whole “punching” angle to the OP, David. Has Jack Donovan said something about how manly men should be allowed to punch people in the past? Because I really don’t see it in his post or the comments and this is the only post about him on Manboobz. So either I’m missing some context or maybe David is reading too much into this.

Rabbit
Rabbit
9 years ago

Omg, slowly-becoming-less-ignorant-sheltered-young-woman high five! It sounds like we grew up similarly, though I’ve been reading online blogs from a slightly younger age. ^^

-high fives back- We is larnin’! XD

I’m trying to get a job with the local school system right now. It’s something I’ve wanted to do for a while but have been avoiding because a) it’s too feminine and I’m still learning to get over the knee-jerk reaction of rejecting anything feminine in order to appear more tomboyish/masculine and therefore “better” and b) it’s what my mother does and for some reason I feel like I should be doing something different than she did. (B is especially funny because I’m currently doing pretty much exactly what my dad does, except in a different department. He even made a point of warning me not to fall into this trap, and I did it anyway.) That way the only customer service I would be doing would be with the kids themselves. Since I wouldn’t be an actual teacher or an administrator, parent contact would be limited. Yay!

(Also, if you treat people nice they are usually way more helpful, if you want to take pure empathy out of the equation! Customer service people can occasionally make your life slightly more or less frustrating; why piss them off?)

Word. I know around here we will bend over backward to help you find the best solution to your problem if you make us like you or have sympathy for you. If you act like a jerk, we won’t even try. Sadly, the jerks just work their way up the ladder until someone finally just gives them what they want so they will go away. The nice ones tend to give in and do what we tell them the first time, so they still kind of wind up with the short end of the stick most of the time. (The ones that cry seem to make most of us think they’re lying and not want to help them. I wonder why that is? Maybe the whole “tears=woman=weak” thing?)

Victoria Tantyr
9 years ago

Wake up, Jack. Customer service is not fun. That is why you get PAID. If it was fun, you would pay to do it.

If memory serves, this Donovan person started a mini civil war within the men’s groups, about six months ago. It was about the same thing also, the whole “men are real men” sillyness. It was a wonderful popcorn and soda kind of moment.

Maybe I remember wrong. Not worth looking into.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

As to the rest — doesn’t the fact that Donovan was “forced” to work in customer service prove he’s a beta? Hey, I thought if you are alpha, you do what you want, take alpha-ish jobs, fuck the world, and not let anyone force you to do anything.

The way the PUA guys describe alphahood, I would expect that good looking men just set up an office where women come and give money to them. If for some reason an alpha doesn’t have money, he could pay his bills with “game” rather than normal currency.

Pam
Pam
9 years ago

All customer service oriented jobs, for instance, require men to … reply submissively

[bold emphasis mine]

Ay, there’s the rub. Men men men men, manly men, oo hoo hoo, hoo hoo, ooooooo should NOT be required to reply submissively.

drycamp
9 years ago

The comments here are from “lowly” customer service people, but I’d like to point out that us higher-status customer service people (aka doctors and lawyers) have to put up with a lot too. That is, if we expect to make a living.

So if my client turns unreasonable, I have to be the soul of reasonableness (or write off the fee). People scream at me, hang up on me, call my office at unreasonable hours (why why why do you think I’m there at 2 AM to “call me RIGHT BACK”???), indulge in personal insults….. this proves what? That I’m “oppressed”?

No, it proves that I work in a trade that requires me to interact with the paying public, and that he/she who pays the piper calls the tune.

Yes. Customer service people are required to behave submissively to the people who are responsible for them getting paid.

If the “alphas” here don’t like it, perhaps they should move out into the woods and take to clubbing down deer for their meals. Honestly, grow up.

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