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“Many feminists love rape” Another gem from Reddit

According to some MRAs, this guy doesn't care about rape

Ugh. No jokes this time, just an appalling little exchange on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit. First, a Redditor called xbyiu offers some unsolicited, and pretty pig-ignorant, thoughts about SlutWalks. The basic thesis:

Personally, I think a lot of feminists just don’t care about rape victims. They’d much rather see women as a whole being a victim of the patriarchy and fight against that sort of abstract idea then deal with the reality of rape, which can be fought against with simple tips on how to protect yourself.

Hold on; it gets worse.

To this the r/mr regular EvilPundit replied (in a comment that, last I checked, had gotten three times more upvotes than downvotes):

I’d go even further, and say that many feminists love rape. For them, it’s a perfect way to demonise men in general.

If rape didn’t exist, feminism would invent it. In fact, feminism does invent a lot of rape, with its imaginary statistics such as “1 in 4”, and so on.

In other words, feminists don’t really want to prevent rape. But most rape is imaginary. So feminists are trying to not prevent something that doesn’t much happen anyway. Brilliant.

A note on the “1 in 4” thing: EvilPundit’s insinuation that it’s an “imaginary statistic” is a common MRA talking point. It’s not imaginary, but it’s not quite accurate either.  The one-in-four number comes from a study conducted in the 80s by researcher Mary Koss: based on a detailed survey of college women, she found that roughly one in four of her respondent had been a victim of rape or attempted rape since the age of 14. This is often simplified – and distorted – into “one in four female college students are raped while in college.”

In fact, Koss’ survey found that one in eight college women answering her survey, not one in four, had been the victim of completed  rape.  Other studies have reported numbers not far off from this. The National Violence Against Women Survey, for example, found that roughly one in six of female respondents reported being the victim of rape in their lifetime.

The fact that some people have misrepresented Koss’ study doesn’t mean that her findings are “imaginary.”

I’m not even sure why I’m writing all this, given that as a feminist I presumably don’t care at all about rape.

Pic above taken from here.

EDITED TO ADD: EvilPundit’s comment has gotten some downvotes since I posted this, but it still has more upvotes than downvotes.

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Hengist
Hengist
10 years ago

You guys are a riot. Women are dirty for having sex, but the men they have sex with are not.

I would love to see an MRA explain this delightful double standard.

Sure. Imagine being a key which opens every lock in the world. Pretty awesome, right? Now imagine being a lock which can be opened by every key in the world. Not so hot anymore. :p

americanlink
10 years ago

[quote]I think americanlink was unwarrantedly piled on; if I’d been faster my reply would merely have been:
Are you guessing from the person’s appearance or do you have a source?

Same thing CassandraSays seems to have been going for, but without assuming malevolence on americanlink’s part.[/quote]

Thank you. Hershele Ostropoler. I will admit I forgot the link in my original post- it was late night for me. And sorry for getting crabby, CassandraSays. Just wasn’t expecting to get jumped on so much with my first comment… D:

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
10 years ago

Hengist, someone else already talked about how ridiculous the key and lock analogy is. Here is the thing. Penises are not keys and vaginas are not locks. They have nothing to do with each other. The double standard comes from men that want to have as much fun as they can but can’t handle it if women behave the exact same way. They want to limit and control women’s sexuality, but believe themselves to be above those rules. Now MRA’s are whining when women decide that the double standard is bs.

Bostonian
Bostonian
10 years ago

Kollege Messerschmitt was in before you Hengist.

I think Kollege deserves a prize for correctly predicting the form your misogyny would take.

The quote below:

“I’m pretty sure it will be something along the lines of the “If a key opens lots of locks, it’s a master key. But if a lock is opened by lots of keys, then it’s a shitty lock.” analogy.
Because apparently, vaginas natural purpose is to…uh, lock something away? I guess?
I never got that one. “

Moewicus
Moewicus
10 years ago

So men are for getting into women, but women are for keeping men out. A perfect statement of sexual double standards.

FelixBC
FelixBC
10 years ago

I think the MRA position is that double standards are a *good* thing. ‘Cause, you know, women. They’re not men. MRA positions make a lot more sense if you don’t read with “but people are equal” in mind.

Kollege Messerschmitt
10 years ago

redlocker:

No wonder AntZ and his ilk are waiting for VR women/robot women/whatever the fuck they’re whining for.

It seriously can’t happen soon enough, to be honest. I just hope they will actually stop their whining then, but I have my doubts…

Bostonian:

Kollege Messerschmitt was in before you Hengist.

I think Kollege deserves a prize for correctly predicting the form your misogyny would take.

Thank you :D! Though I’m not sure if being able to correctly predict what an MRA will reply is a great skill ): It’s kind of sad, even.
I’m actually kind of shocked by THAT much lack of self-awareness. I mean, wow.

Bostonian
Bostonian
10 years ago

MRAs are not especially bright in general, so self awareness would be rare for them.

A virtual confection of your choice is yours Kollege.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
10 years ago

Well the men that promote the double standard shouldn’t whine when women don’t want to have sex with them. In MRA Land, for a single woman, her options are to be a slut or frigid. Married women of course are supposed to be sex goddesses for their husbands, and only give and never take. Married women are no longer locks, and refusing sex to their husbands is a crime against humanity. I’m glad I understand these bs rules.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

Um, Hengist? Hate to break it to you, buddy, but your particular key most definitely does not open my lock. In fact, it turns it into a padlock with extra bolts.

Fuck MRAs
Fuck MRAs
10 years ago

For everyone who was wondering, feminist popcorn is, of course, popcorn that has been salted with the tears of men.

ozymandias42
10 years ago

And now Hengist has committed the Fallacy of Buh?, in which the analogy is entirely unrelated to the topic at hand.

I don’t even understand that thought process. I mean, Hengist, you’re a straight man, right? You like sex, right? Why would you want to discourage women from having sex they would like to have? That can only mean less sex not only for you but for your brothers in straight and bi manhood.

red_locker
10 years ago

Huh, what do you know: bigotry IS predictable, if Hengist is any indication.

katz
10 years ago

Ah, locks and keys. Anyone written a convenient blog post detailing why this is a crap metaphor? If not, I’ll write one so we can just link to it in the future, because it’s really a sad and pathetic thing to have to rehash.

Lauralot
10 years ago

I predict Hengist will next say it was a joke and we have no sense of humor.

Loki Day
Loki Day
10 years ago

I predict Hengist will next say it was a joke and we have no sense of humor.

Yeah, I don’t think anyone’d take you up on that bet.

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

Coming in late, about ringing child services. If it works the same as here, you can do it anonymously, so he can’t come after you. Yours will not be the first call to them, by the sound of things – their neighbours and the school, for instance, probably have called too. When child services does get enough evidence to rescue the child, the fact that they have had X number of calls from X number of people over X period of time will help their case in court.

Pecunium
10 years ago

He might say the smiley for sticking his tongue out was a reference to Kollege Messerschmitt’s comment.

We will all, of course, just have to trust him on that.

Amused
Amused
10 years ago

Imagine being a key which opens every lock in the world. Pretty awesome, right?

Well, let’s see. A key which opens every lock is a tool. One that’s what, 2 inches long, 1/3 inch wide and fits in a lipstick case? Whether it’s awesome or not depends on whether you are into burglary or sex. Can’t say I’m excited.

Now imagine being a lock which can be opened by every key in the world. Not so hot anymore. :p

To a tiny tool, perhaps not. Someone with imagination, however, will realize that a lock that can be opened by any key is just not a lock.

(Oh, Hengist, baby, did you come up with that one all on your own? Because I swear, I’ve NEVER heard that one before.)

(Also: Note the typical rapey bullshit suggesting that women who aren’t virgins have no standards and will sleep with anyone.)

magdelyn
10 years ago

americanlink, you can call me “it” if you wanna. I don’t care. Lots-o-people cultivating their indignities here.

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

Um… if all the locks only work with their own key (because they’re Good Girl locks), then there can’t be a key that opens all locks. If all the locks are locked up, then it’s impossible to have a master key, or even a key that gets around a little bit.

And this does translate back to penises and vaginas, quite tidily.

amandajane5
10 years ago

Oh Maggie, aren’t you the special self-hating snowflake as always!

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

Yes yes, Mags, you don’t care about being insulted based on your class because you’re just so much better. Are you done with your NAWALT posturing yet? Well, NATALT, but the principle is the same.

Shit, I don’t care for shit that has hurt people I love being repeated. It’s not cool.

Pterygotus
Pterygotus
10 years ago

Why would you want to discourage women from having sex they would like to have?

Why not? They’re just going to have it with people who aren’t you anyway, same as always.

That can only mean less sex not only for you but for your brothers in straight and bi manhood.

So… nothing changes for me, while all those other men who flaunt their sex-having suffer?

…I’m okay with this.

Hengist
Hengist
10 years ago

Kollege Messerschmitt was in before you Hengist.

He was? Damn, I actually missed that. Not surprising considering the rate at which these threads grow (I hate to use the ‘no life’ cliche but… seriously). And I never said I made it up, just thought it was funny. :p

The boob gang: “Blah blah, here is a long boring explanation detailing why you’re not funny. HA, OWNED! *high-fives all around*”

MVP award: The most ironically nicknamed Amused.

Um, Hengist? Hate to break it to you, buddy, but your particular key most definitely does not open my lock. In fact, it turns it into a padlock with extra bolts

Can you post a picture so I can decide whether to be sad or grateful for that? :p

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

Every second time the key goes in the lock, it would lock again, wouldn’t it? And what if you locked your self out, with the key inside? Or left the key in your other trousers? Should we switch to a keypad lock? 🙂

Hengist
Hengist
10 years ago

The only locks one might have trouble with are the modern ones, which require swiping your credit card before opening. :p

Amused
Amused
10 years ago

“A clever saying proves nothing.” (Voltaire)

(To say nothing of a dumb saying.)
================================================

Love the impotent misogyny there, “the boob gang”. This, coming from the same flaccid knob who only a day or so ago made wistful comments about gratuitous insults.

ozymandias42
10 years ago

Pterygorus: I have to say, no matter how virginal you are, it’s hard to imagine how slut-shaming will get you MORE laid. For one thing, you’re discouraging women from being promiscuous, which means that all the heterosexual men have fewer sex partners; for another, you’re annoying all the promiscuous women, who are statistically more likely to sleep with you than the non-promiscuous women.

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

Come to think of it, I don’t know why misogynists use the Keys and Locks analogy. If that was actually how it worked, it would be in more or less everyone’s best interests to destroy keys that work too well. Really, who wants to think of someone with a universal key, one mugging and duplication away from 1000s of the damn things floating around. Better to destroy these abnormal skeleton keys.

Why is this considered the go-to? I mean, that’s not how it works really, but wouldn’t you want an analogy wherein the male doesn’t represent a threat that should be destroyed?

And I never said I made it up, just thought it was funny. :

You fail humor. Take some tips from, I don’t know, Shaenon.

Lauralot
10 years ago

He was? Damn, I actually missed that. Not surprising considering the rate at which these threads grow (I hate to use the ‘no life’ cliche but… seriously). And I never said I made it up, just thought it was funny. :p

Hey, I was right! And some added misogyny with “boob gang” and a “let me return here to tell you guys how you have no life even though I’ll continue to argue with you!”

It’s like Christmas. Shitty, shitty Christmas.

Amnesia
Amnesia
10 years ago

“How the MRAs stole Christmas.” This might have potential.

Kollege Messerschmitt
10 years ago

A virtual confection of your choice is yours Kollege.

Woohoo! I’d like a virtual chocolate tart, filled with internets and topped with MRA-tears :D!

And I really don’t understand the logic of guys like Pterygorus. I agree with ozy.
Discouraging women from having sex just because they won’t sleep with YOU is… stupid. And childish. Do you really want others to be as miserable as you are?
How would that even help you get laid?

As for the key and lock analogy, it also, once again, totally ignores non-straight people – unless it’s meant to imply that having two keys or two locks is useless. Fuck this.

Hengist
Hengist
10 years ago

Hey, I was right! And some added misogyny with “boob gang” and a “let me return here to tell you guys how you have no life even though I’ll continue to argue with you!”

It’s “misogyny” to call you by the name of the site now? And yeah, considering I spend upwards of half an hour in the morning and evening on here while you each write, I dunno, about 500 posts per day, I’m comfortable saying some of you have no lives. Deal with it. :p

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

“Come to think of it, I don’t know why misogynists use the Keys and Locks analogy. If that was actually how it worked, it would be in more or less everyone’s best interests to destroy keys that work too well. Really, who wants to think of someone with a universal key, one mugging and duplication away from 1000s of the damn things floating around. Better to destroy these abnormal skeleton keys.”

Isn’t that exactly what they’re trying to do with all the pissing and moaning about jerks, wherein “jerk” means “any man more attractive and/or socially skilled than me”?

Viscaria
Viscaria
10 years ago

Imagine, if you will, an electric pencil sharpener that sharpens lots of pencils. It would be a very good pencil sharpener, right? Now, imagine a pencil that is constantly being sharpened by pencil sharpeners. Why, it would quickly shrink to uselessness and then disappear. Therefore, women who have sex are good and men who have sex will shrink their penises until they’re gone! Q.E.D.

Now some people might argue that there is absolutely no relationship between heterosexual sex and how pencil sharpeners work, but see, pencils go into pencil sharpeners, and penises go into vaginas! So it’s the same! That’s how analogies work, right guys? Guys??

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

Viscaria, have a big bowl of feminist popcorn 🙂

Hershele Ostropoler
10 years ago

Felix:

I think the MRA position is that double standards are a *good* thing. ‘Cause, you know, women. They’re not men. MRA positions make a lot more sense if you don’t read with “but people are equal” in mind.

And yet so often MRAs seem to be living in a post-patriarchy: if MRA statements of how the world should be make more sense if you don’t think people are equal, a lot of their statements about how the world is make more sense if you believe total equality has been achieved (though not necessarily that it’s a good thing).

cynickal
cynickal
10 years ago

And yeah, considering I spend upwards of half an hour in the morning and evening on here while you each write, I dunno, about 500 posts per day, I’m comfortable saying some of you have no lives.

Ha! Ha!
U dumb gurlz R talking about thingz that I don’t like!
Obviously U hav no life or U’d be able to do just 1 thing at a time, like me!

oldfeminist
10 years ago

If you must stick to the heteronormative “men do an action to women” thing, then why not have it be men as readers, women as books. A man who can read all books would be awesome. A book that can be read by all men, *JUST* as awesome.

oldfeminist
10 years ago

And thinking about the motivation to limit women’s sexuality to one man, I think maybe this is a strategy for men familiar with Game but unsuccessful at it to keep women from having sex with men they “know” outrank them, that they could never have as permanent partners.

One of their theories is that alpha males are swimming in it and this HAS TO STOP because it’s using up all the average and inferior women who, clearly, aren’t going to settle for average or inferior men if they can get alphas even temporarily or in a shared arrangement.

If those women know they only get one shot at it, they will save it for the guy they are going to marry.

They have a point (aside from the one at the top of their heads) but that point evaporates once you realize women are human beings and not natural resources to be mined, allocated and controlled.

It’s like they know people are having a party and admission is either being an alpha male or having a vagina. They feel left out. Some are left out because they are innately miserable shitheads, who couldn’t be fuckable unless they got an empathy implant. Others are convinced or convince themselves that women are another species and that normal rules of friendship can’t possibly apply to women. Plenty of them get invitations every day that they just don’t see because they expect them to come in a pink flowery envelope with perfume billowing out of it, and instead it’s in a plain white envelope, or on a Post-It on the refrigerator, or even wrapped around a brick and thrown through the window.

Hey, maybe this is the new analogy — parties and invitations. An invitation that gets you into lots of parties is awesome. A party that lets in a lot of invitations is also awesome. And there’s no shame in going to a small party versus a big party, or being a small party or a big party. Personal choice.

comrade svilova
comrade svilova
10 years ago

I love the party and book analogies.

Eurosabra
Eurosabra
10 years ago

Yes, I guess so, but there are still a certain percentage of men “doing everything right” and being turned down by all women. I did a hell of a lot better when I was younger, more cheerful, and denser, but women still wanted me to take all the initiative, refused to communicate consent explicitly, and changed their answer to “No” because I asked, whenever I asked. Oddly, unlike the situation of a lot of manocomplainers on this blog, women sometimes seem naturally attracted to me, I estimate that about 1 in 50 don’t require me to “do” anything other than be myself. I am fairly marginal in a lot of ways, with a combination of physical impairments and intellectual over-endowment, and I still have to take the initiative in all respects, even with those who are supposedly cognizant of human physical limitations because they possess them themselves and who supposedly have some investment in feminism because of their academic/intellectual self-actualization.

Oldfeminist comes close to the realization that women are naturally attracted to only a small minority of men but falls back on the idea that lonely men are doing something to deserve it.

KathleenB
KathleenB
10 years ago

Eurosabra: I’m… not quite sure I have any fucking clue what you’re talking about. Are men attracted to all women? Should they be? Should women be attracted to all men, thus giving all lonely men an equal shot?

Pecunium
10 years ago

Eurosabra: Yes, I guess so, but there are still a certain percentage of men “doing everything right” and being turned down by all women.

This is logically false. If they were “doing everything right” then they wouldn’t be turned down by “all women”. Sooner or later (and more sooner than later, IME), they would find one who shared enough interest to get some sort of relationship going.

Hershele Ostropoler
10 years ago

Eurosabra, after all this time, you’re still treating this as a system. You are treating it like Le Mans when it’s just driving.

In other words, by definition “doing everything right” leads to “success” (and I hate using that term, it implies a woman is an inert trophy). So people who aren’t “successful” aren’t “doing everything right” even if they’re following the system perfectly.

Moewicus
Moewicus
10 years ago

I can’t recall the last time Hengist didn’t end his comments with a :p. Is that his “peace and freedom” now? Or is it his license to say that anything that he says that winds up being dumb is actually just a joke and you feminists need to grow a sense of humor?

:p

cynickal
cynickal
10 years ago

They have a point (aside from the one at the top of their heads) but that point evaporates once you realize women are human beings and not natural resources to be mined, allocated and controlled.

Wait… I thought dating was a cross between Mine Craft and Angry Birds.

oldfeminist
10 years ago

Eurosabra: “Oldfeminist comes close to the realization that women are naturally attracted to only a small minority of men but falls back on the idea that lonely men are doing something to deserve it.”

I don’t remember saying anything like this. In fact I don’t believe that women are naturally attracted to only a small minority of men. A woman may be naturally attracted to only a few men, though not all are like that. But each woman has a different set of requirements.

While a woman may swoon over the Hollywood image of Brad Pitt, for example, many of them would probably find the “real thing” uninteresting. Most women are able to separate fantasy from reality and would not be interested in dating a vampire, either, no matter how ubiquitous the fantasy seems to be right now. If that was what they really wanted, there’d be a totally different vibe to the dating scene.

You find that about 1 in 50 are attracted to you “naturally.” You attribute this to physical problems and intelligence, but you don’t say anything about your personality, which makes me wonder if that might be a stumbling block as well. If you’re walking around going “I’m an INTJ and that’s just the way I am, fuck you if you don’t like it,” for example, that’s a losing “strategy.” At least I can tell you it didn’t work for me. Though women are beaten out of thinking they can act like that pretty quickly and firmly; men are often admired for it, though it doesn’t get them dates. Plus eventually you have to learn how to use all those other functions, might as well start now.

Bottom line, though, is that women aren’t prizes. As Pecunium and Hershele Ostropoler said, there is no one effective “system” because women aren’t non-player characters (and feminists aren’t bosses).

As for “deserving it”? No one is punishing you. They are simply not choosing you. There is no “deserve.”