Ugh. No jokes this time, just an appalling little exchange on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit. First, a Redditor called xbyiu offers some unsolicited, and pretty pig-ignorant, thoughts about SlutWalks. The basic thesis:
Personally, I think a lot of feminists just don’t care about rape victims. They’d much rather see women as a whole being a victim of the patriarchy and fight against that sort of abstract idea then deal with the reality of rape, which can be fought against with simple tips on how to protect yourself.
Hold on; it gets worse.
To this the r/mr regular EvilPundit replied (in a comment that, last I checked, had gotten three times more upvotes than downvotes):
I’d go even further, and say that many feminists love rape. For them, it’s a perfect way to demonise men in general.
If rape didn’t exist, feminism would invent it. In fact, feminism does invent a lot of rape, with its imaginary statistics such as “1 in 4”, and so on.
In other words, feminists don’t really want to prevent rape. But most rape is imaginary. So feminists are trying to not prevent something that doesn’t much happen anyway. Brilliant.
A note on the “1 in 4” thing: EvilPundit’s insinuation that it’s an “imaginary statistic” is a common MRA talking point. It’s not imaginary, but it’s not quite accurate either. The one-in-four number comes from a study conducted in the 80s by researcher Mary Koss: based on a detailed survey of college women, she found that roughly one in four of her respondent had been a victim of rape or attempted rape since the age of 14. This is often simplified – and distorted – into “one in four female college students are raped while in college.”
In fact, Koss’ survey found that one in eight college women answering her survey, not one in four, had been the victim of completed rape. Other studies have reported numbers not far off from this. The National Violence Against Women Survey, for example, found that roughly one in six of female respondents reported being the victim of rape in their lifetime.
The fact that some people have misrepresented Koss’ study doesn’t mean that her findings are “imaginary.”
I’m not even sure why I’m writing all this, given that as a feminist I presumably don’t care at all about rape.
Pic above taken from here.
EDITED TO ADD: EvilPundit’s comment has gotten some downvotes since I posted this, but it still has more upvotes than downvotes.
Time for
Rape Prevention tips that Actually work!
Tired of the same old tips about wearing longer skirts and always keeping an eye on your drink? Wish there was something that actually worked? Wonder no more! Here are two lists of fool-proof ways sexual assault can be prevented.
Don’t put drugs in people’s drinks in order to control their behavior.
When you see someone walking by themselves, leave them alone!
If you pull over to help someone with car problems, remember not to assault them!
NEVER open an unlocked door or window uninvited.
If you are in an elevator and someone else gets in, DON’T ASSAULT THEM!
Remember, people go to laundry to do their laundry, do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.
USE THE BUDDY SYSTEM! If you are not able to stop yourself from assaulting people, ask a friend to stay with you while you are in public.
Always be honest with people! Don’t pretend to be a caring friend in order to gain the trust of someone you want to assault. Consider telling them you plan to assault them. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the other person may take that as a sign that you do not plan to rape them.
Don’t forget: you can’t have sex with someone unless they are awake!
Carry a whistle! If you are worried you might assault someone “on accident” you can hand it to the person you are with, so they can blow it if you do.
And, ALWAYS REMEMBER: if you didn’t ask permission and then respect the answer the first time, you are committing a crime- no matter how “into it” others appear to be.
http://downlo.tumblr.com/post/10176644689/a-useful-rape-analogy
Talking about rape analogies, oldie but goodie.
Also… I want to hear what kind of precatuions can one take so no douchebags outhere would think that women’s bodies are public property and can be used and abused as they please without any consequences? Because I’d sure love to hear that.
I don’t think anyone was arguing rape was not, in fact, the rapist’s fault. I was talking about things you can/cannot do to make yourself a target. Now if I understand you and the others correctly, there is nothing one can do, in fact, to lower the risk. I’m not sure I agree with this.
By the way that was not originally from me, I shamelessly copied it from here
http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/09/sexual-assult-prevention-tips-that-really-work/
We probably wouldn’t, but we should. Why do we accept that certain things ‘just happen?’ Leaving your car out in the wrong place, wearing nice clothes, we just kind of accept, at some point, that the victim of some crimes must have done something wrong. Human beings have this amazing thing called self-control. Leaving your car out or wearing jewelry or dressing a certain way should NOT automatically make you responsible for someone else’s actions.
Luckily we don’t care if you agree or not.
How about “walk through a Crips neighborhood wearing Bloods colors, get the crap beaten out of you” – would that be a better analogy?
Not really since you can control things like dress and where you walk. Unforntately I can’t change my gender, WHICH IS ALL IT TAKES TO GET RAPED.
Please give specific examples of how this is the case. The fact that feminists generally do not focus on “tips to avoid rape” is because those have already permeated our culture to such a degree that every woman can recite them by rote. These tips include common sense ones, like locking your doors and windows at night and not accepting an open drink from a stranger, to the more bizarre ones, like don’t wear your hair in a ponytail and don’t park next to a van. Carry your keys between your fingers to use as a weapon. Check under your car as you approach it to make sure no one is underneath. Don’t drink. Don’t go outside after dark. Don’t be alone with a strange man.
The fact remains that a person who follows all of these rules can still be assaulted, so isn’t it obvious at that point that SOMETHING ELSE should be considered? And the irony of these rules is that a woman* who tries to follow every single one is usually called “paranoid” and accused of having a “victim mentality” and a “man hater.” Either way, the focus and blame is assigned to US.
It’s not my problem that some men react to any discussion of rape by assuming that all men are being vilified. To quote a previous post, stop snowflaking. If you don’t rape, then WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU when we discuss this issue. But I will say that if you are one of those people who are continually dismissive of this issue and presume that the majority of women are lying about their experiences, then you are still causing harm.
*Basic disclaimer to note that I am fully aware that a) men and boys can be raped and b) women can sexually assault people — the person who assaulted me is female.
In an ideal world, sure. But we don’t live in an ideal world, and things happen. This is why we need to take precautions. Personally, I’d rather not walk around at night with a wad of cash hanging out of my pocket because I count on my own preparedness more than other people’s self-control, and if I get robbed it won’t be much comfort to think it was the robber’s fault and I’m not responsible.
I’m still curious as to what those risks are.
What is the equivalent of Blood colors in a Crips neighborhood for rape victims?
In point of fact, I was wearing Garanaimals clothing when I was raped. What should I have been wearing?
(In my defense, I was five at the time)
Who’s blaming women for being raped?
Quite a few people, actually. I’m glad to hear that you don’t count yourself among them. Nevertheless, judging by the stories here and elsewhere, it looks as though most women already take common-sense approaches to avoid being assaulted–and they still get assaulted. Maybe these approaches help, maybe they don’t, but they certainly aren’t the end-all and be-all that the “You Just Need To Do X To Avoid Being Raped” crowd makes them out to be.
Frankly, I can’t think of a better example of Mansplaining than telling women what they need to do to avoid being raped, especially in the absence of supporting evidence. Coming from a man, it comes off as condescending and offensive.
Hengist, there is a hop skip and a jump from “Do this to help prevent being raped” to “Oh, you didn’t do that? Then it’s your fault”
When I go to parties, I watch my drinks, stick to my friends, and be careful what I wear. If I didn’t do these things, and still got raped, it would still be the fault of the rapist. But also, doing these things won’t prevent getting raped by my best friend, or boyfriend, or husband, which I think (though I am not sure) happens more than the typical frat party rape trope.
Also, if we’re too careful, we’re man-hating, hysterical, and paranoid.
Not really since you can control things like dress and where you walk. Unforntately I can’t change my gender, WHICH IS ALL IT TAKES TO GET RAPED.
So you’re claiming that style of dress and behavior have absolutely no bearing on a woman’s risk to be assaulted, is this correct?
I always cringe about the money analogy… really, my body is actually a golden chaing/cash of money and I tightly hide it, nobody would assault me?
Quick! Someone tell that to the women who are raped though in burqas… obviously they can’t have been raped since they have been clothed enough.
What ammound of clothes, I wonder would be deemed sufficent?
Because clothes more and more prove insufficent and maybe we need to move to something like hamsterballs so nobody can forse their way into our close environment?
Rape preventions starts from not allowing people to think that they can go and rape someone… at least this is how I see it. On the same note as “people would not think that killing other people is OK”
Using seat belts as a risk/precaution against car accidents doesn’t work as an analogy, now that I think of it. Seat belts aren’t intended to prevent car accidents, they’re meant to protect the driver and passengers in the event of an accident. Now if someone had been in a car crash, suffered injuries the seat belt was intended to prevent, and then declared seat belts to be useless, that would work as an analogy. It would still be a bad analogy, but it would actually work.
Hemgist: Well, the best way to prevent rape is to teach men not to do it. But that’s misandry. Teaching women that they bear part or most of the responsibility for sexual assault, though, that fine and shiny.
DING! DING! DING!
We have a winner! That is, indeed, correct!
During a discussion of Slutwalks (which I did NOT bring up; they were being discussed as a “stupid stunt”), I had the following argument with a guy. He claimed that it was obvious that wearing revealing clothing increases your risk of being raped. I pointed out that children as young as six months and women as old as 96 have been raped — his response is that those are merely “outliers.” He then went on pose the following premise: “If there is a serial rapist who is raping blonde women, and blonde women refuse to dye their hair, don’t they bear some responsibility if they are then raped?” My response: “Okay, every single woman in the city has now done the responsible thing and dyed her her blonde. Does this guy magically stop raping now?” I just got an eyeroll.
Can’t say for sure. What I CAN say for sure is that women get raped when they’re drunk; they get raped when they’re sober. They get raped when they’re dressed sexily; they get raped when they’re dressed modestly. They get raped in nice neighborhoods; they get raped in not-so-nice ones. They raped in the day; they get raped in the night. They get raped indoors and out. They get raped in cars and outside them. They get raped by dates and by strangers. What is the same in all these scenarios is the fact they remain the same gender.
And, yes, men get raped, too. Acknowledged.
“It’s not my problem that some women react to any discussion of women being false, calculating gold-diggers by assuming that all women are being vilified. If you’re not a golddigger, then WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU. But I will say that if you are one of those people who are continually dismissive of this issue and presume that the majority of men are lying about their experiences, then you are still causing harm”.
Hengist, here are some specific problems with telling women what they should or shouldn’t do to prevent rape. Why should women lose freedom that men enjoy just because they are more likely to be victims of rape? Women should feel free to walk alone, drink at bars, and do anything that is legal for them to do. A lot of the advice doesn’t apply to the reality of rape, anyway. Why tell women they should stay at home all the time when the home is the most likely place for rape to occur? Some of the advice is sexist against men. If you advise women to avoid dressing sexy because it makes men rape them, then you are saying that men have no self control. Most men would never rape, no matter how sexy women look around them.
I would say it’s pretty easy to avoid dating and/or marrying gold diggers. Avoiding rapists is an entirely different animal.
That was a really cute try though! *pats head*
Does he really think that would make women who were raped responsible???
Holy shit, I’m sorry you had to deal with such an assclarinet.