Ugh. No jokes this time, just an appalling little exchange on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit. First, a Redditor called xbyiu offers some unsolicited, and pretty pig-ignorant, thoughts about SlutWalks. The basic thesis:
Personally, I think a lot of feminists just don’t care about rape victims. They’d much rather see women as a whole being a victim of the patriarchy and fight against that sort of abstract idea then deal with the reality of rape, which can be fought against with simple tips on how to protect yourself.
Hold on; it gets worse.
To this the r/mr regular EvilPundit replied (in a comment that, last I checked, had gotten three times more upvotes than downvotes):
I’d go even further, and say that many feminists love rape. For them, it’s a perfect way to demonise men in general.
If rape didn’t exist, feminism would invent it. In fact, feminism does invent a lot of rape, with its imaginary statistics such as “1 in 4”, and so on.
In other words, feminists don’t really want to prevent rape. But most rape is imaginary. So feminists are trying to not prevent something that doesn’t much happen anyway. Brilliant.
A note on the “1 in 4” thing: EvilPundit’s insinuation that it’s an “imaginary statistic” is a common MRA talking point. It’s not imaginary, but it’s not quite accurate either. The one-in-four number comes from a study conducted in the 80s by researcher Mary Koss: based on a detailed survey of college women, she found that roughly one in four of her respondent had been a victim of rape or attempted rape since the age of 14. This is often simplified – and distorted – into “one in four female college students are raped while in college.”
In fact, Koss’ survey found that one in eight college women answering her survey, not one in four, had been the victim of completed rape. Other studies have reported numbers not far off from this. The National Violence Against Women Survey, for example, found that roughly one in six of female respondents reported being the victim of rape in their lifetime.
The fact that some people have misrepresented Koss’ study doesn’t mean that her findings are “imaginary.”
I’m not even sure why I’m writing all this, given that as a feminist I presumably don’t care at all about rape.
Pic above taken from here.
EDITED TO ADD: EvilPundit’s comment has gotten some downvotes since I posted this, but it still has more upvotes than downvotes.
*And the wife is suffering as well, I meant to say.
The most pathetic thing of all is that when/if she finally does leave him, he’ll not only blame her but claim that she “scammed” him, and if she obtains support for the child, he’ll say she’s “stealing” from him, too.
No, he means carry *A* mace. At all times. Not only will it prevent rapes, but you can get that bag of Feminist Popcorn that got stuck in the vending machine that just stole your dollar.
Seconded, though I’m a day late…
The whole “white women are rubbish” is truly icky and weird.
I now so many non-white feminists from all over the world. Also, to make myself utter uncomfortable, I need an answer: is this attitude towards all white women or only American and UK white women?
Or in other words, am I supposed to be very, very cautious around foreigners in my country though the people here fall under the “white” category (as stupid this segregation is)?
It was obvious that the guy was emotionally and verbally abusive and that it was destroying his wife and son. I’m not sure how else the situation could really be viewed. What I don’t think is that he’ll end up being a courthouse shooter. He’s an asshole. He has the social skills of an eggplant. He has no respect for the other human beings in his life. Not sure that would escalate to full scale violence, in this particular case.
I’d be more inclined to believe that he’ll abandon his family completely, ditch out of child support, blow off visitation and leave them both high and dry. With the level of contempt that he showed for them, I can imagine him thinking that a few hundred in child support per week is worth being rid of them. I definitely don’t see him getting mad because he doesn’t have more visitation rights, because he made it quite clear that he wants little to do with his child.
*as stupid this segregation with the mixed biological history for most of Europe this is.
I think “white women are rubbish” is mostly meant to apply to the U.S. (or North America in general) and western Europe (the U.K. especially). I could be wrong.
[blockquote]The most pathetic thing of all is that when/if she finally does leave him, he’ll not only blame her but claim that she “scammed” him, and if she obtains support for the child, he’ll say she’s “stealing” from him, too.[/blockquote]
This. Although I think he might be the type to expat and abandon them completely.
I’m temped to suggest you call child protective services on this guy, but I fear that might make things worse.
Nova, that guy, just. Wow. That’s… awful. This is why BAWs worry the shit out of me. >.<
What’s a BAW?
Boycott American Women.
Nova, I don’t expect you to want to go back, I don’t want to put anything on you. But one of the things jerks like that guy do is isolate the people in their families. It might be good for them to see someone else around who’s not a jerk.
I remember a neighbor family when I was a kid, where the father was like this. The daughter came with us to church every week, because the father did not want to go to church and forbade the mother to go but for some reason thought it was okay for the daughter. I didn’t “get” it at the time, just noticed the mother and daughter were always flinching at everything and and scared looking all the time. I have no idea if she got anything from the religion but I bet she did get something out of being exposed to people who weren’t either an asshole or living in fear of an asshole.
You probably aren’t the one to do it, but I hope they both get that chance at metaphorical fresh air and sunshine.
I used to frequent an Eastern European immigrant forum, where a lot of men, angry at the many “privileges” that women get in this country compared to the Old World, and at how “spoiled” immigrant women become here after a few years, boasted about their “wonderful marriages” with women they brought over from the old country on a fiance visa. To listen to these men, they were living in total marital bliss, with wives who were happy to be completely dependent on them, to wait on them hand-and-foot and to obey them in every little thing.
Among the regulars, there were also some “mail-order brides” (I’d say about a dozen over the space of about three years), married to “BAW’s”. These women too, publicly praised their marriages, although what they said was a bit different from the men: they described themselves as “realistic” and “loving” women with very low expectations, who don’t run for the courthouse just because life ain’t all a bed of roses. But privately, all of these women — ALL of them — messaged me and asked me how they can get out; to what extent the law enables their husbands to retaliate against them; and if I could refer them to any agencies or low-cost lawyers who would help them leave.
I like BAW as an acronym because it’s the ubiquitous sound effect for crying in the old Little Lulu comics. Like, Tubby would get a spanking, and he’d walk down the street going “BAW!”
It’s so sad to think of how trapped the wives of BAW men are. I feel guilty for thinking, “Oh good, a bunch of assholes don’t want anything to do with US women. Sounds like a win win to me”, because it means they are just focusing their attentions on women from other countries instead. No women anywhere in the world deserve to be paired up with those guys.
I also feel so bad for the wife and child you described Nova. I agree with what oldfeminist described about how much they probably need someone to reach out to them. I know myself that it was the kindness of friends, neighbors, and a cousin of mine that helped me get away from an abusive relationship when I was in college. After being torn down by the boyfriend all the time and occasionally physically abused, I felt like I deserved to be treated so badly. It was my cousin and my neighbors that figured out about the abuse, reached out to me, and gave me the courage to leave him. I am a completely different person now than I was when I was in the abusive relationship. It makes me wonder how many people out there are trapped in abusive relationships and desperate for someone to care enough to help.
This BAW stuff is pathetic and sad. I learn a lot around here, but man.
Though, I second Shaenon’s joke. 🙂
Also, has the topic of this post been dealt with (judging by the owning of the trolls), or are we still dealing with Meg’s passive-aggressive “booyah”?
I think we’re dealing with Meg’s attempted gotcha mostly by rolling our eyes at it.
It’s strange how that guy even has contempt for his supposedly “superior” non-white woman. He got what he wanted, but nothing changes the fact that he’s still a misogynist and no matter how submissive or docile she may be, she can’t squelch her pesky humanity. Oh I pity him*, getting to realize that even his prized Asian women are people with their own thoughts and opinions. Oh the shattering of delusions!
*not really.
You know, it occurs to me that BAWs apparently do not see the hypocrisy of buying a woman from another country in an arranged marriage and then turning around and criticizing Western women for being “gold diggers” and “materialistic.”
I third Shaenon’s joke – it’s a weirdly apt acronym.
And I also agree with oldfeminist. Emotional abuse is not to be underestimated.
I feel so sorry for the woman and her child… Looks like the BAW dudes actually want a real doll that cooks and cleans for them, not a person with needs of their own. It’s pretty chilling, considering that even the most docile and submissive person in the world probably needs to be treated like a living and feeling human being to some degree – and that this is a bad thing to the BAW guys.
“It’s pretty chilling, considering that even the most docile and submissive person in the world probably needs to be treated like a living and feeling human being to some degree – and that this is a bad thing to the BAW guys.”
No wonder AntZ and his ilk are waiting for VR women/robot women/whatever the fuck they’re whining for.
I did think about calling CPS for a minute, but I really don’t think it’s something they’d act on. The guy is a total dick and, while I view his behavior as blatant abuse, most CPS offices can’t do much of anything until there’s imminent danger, like beatings, neglect or the more obviously serious forms of abuse. Besides, I would hate to call them and make things worse. This guy will NOT blame himself for what’s going on.
The wife works and the boy is in school, so they do have some time away from the situation and I hope they’re able to get some support there. I think they’re also involved in church, judging by some religious stuff that was floating around the house. The situation is very triggering for me and, I can’t say with any certainty that I’d act in their best interests or be able to maintain my own sanity.
Nova, I don’t want you going into a triggering situation. That would just be worse all around. I was posting more in general; that if anyone here knows some family or person in that situation, even a little friendship or kindness might be a lifesaver for them.
@Snow Anyway, I haven’t seen you around before so welcome to the blog! Or if you’ve been around longer than me then greetings new person and I need to read the comments here more :]
(Oh I hope I did this right)
I’m new, been lurking a couple of days now, so thank you! Glad to have found this blog.
Oh great! So yeah, welcome and hey check out the forum if you want http://manboobz.forummotion.com/ we’d love to have you