Ugh. No jokes this time, just an appalling little exchange on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit. First, a Redditor called xbyiu offers some unsolicited, and pretty pig-ignorant, thoughts about SlutWalks. The basic thesis:
Personally, I think a lot of feminists just don’t care about rape victims. They’d much rather see women as a whole being a victim of the patriarchy and fight against that sort of abstract idea then deal with the reality of rape, which can be fought against with simple tips on how to protect yourself.
Hold on; it gets worse.
To this the r/mr regular EvilPundit replied (in a comment that, last I checked, had gotten three times more upvotes than downvotes):
I’d go even further, and say that many feminists love rape. For them, it’s a perfect way to demonise men in general.
If rape didn’t exist, feminism would invent it. In fact, feminism does invent a lot of rape, with its imaginary statistics such as “1 in 4”, and so on.
In other words, feminists don’t really want to prevent rape. But most rape is imaginary. So feminists are trying to not prevent something that doesn’t much happen anyway. Brilliant.
A note on the “1 in 4” thing: EvilPundit’s insinuation that it’s an “imaginary statistic” is a common MRA talking point. It’s not imaginary, but it’s not quite accurate either. The one-in-four number comes from a study conducted in the 80s by researcher Mary Koss: based on a detailed survey of college women, she found that roughly one in four of her respondent had been a victim of rape or attempted rape since the age of 14. This is often simplified – and distorted – into “one in four female college students are raped while in college.”
In fact, Koss’ survey found that one in eight college women answering her survey, not one in four, had been the victim of completed rape. Other studies have reported numbers not far off from this. The National Violence Against Women Survey, for example, found that roughly one in six of female respondents reported being the victim of rape in their lifetime.
The fact that some people have misrepresented Koss’ study doesn’t mean that her findings are “imaginary.”
I’m not even sure why I’m writing all this, given that as a feminist I presumably don’t care at all about rape.
Pic above taken from here.
EDITED TO ADD: EvilPundit’s comment has gotten some downvotes since I posted this, but it still has more upvotes than downvotes.
Feminists don’t care about rape, so they made Slutwalks to stand against rape and slut-shaming. Do these people think before they type?
“[Rape] can be fought against with simple tips on how to protect yourself”? How is it that that MRAs can devalue and belittle women at most any opportunity, but suddenly rape is extremely easy for these useless women (who can’t even be trusted on the battlefield) to defend themselves against?
Here’s the thing, MRA assholes. I already do take common sense approaches to protecting myself from being assaulted. And I WAS STILL ASSAULTED. That’s the point feminists are trying to make!!! I’m careful to the point of paranoia, which hilariously ALSO makes you douches angry, because you accuse me of thinking every man is a rapist.
I don’t understand the logic behind the quoted text, sorry, I meant “logic”, because this has as much brush with reality, as TMNT is a documentary.
So… rape does not exist as such or in very low numbers and feminists are just making it up so they can feel victims of the patriarchy but on the same note, feminists do not care about rape and in anyway, rape is easily resolved issue if women just follow the simple rules of… not existing, I believe, acording to the way discussion there has digressed?
What???
As Lauralot said, there are so many things feminism and feminists do about sexual assaults discussions and actions but somehow they also don’t care?
I don’t think Orwel had this in mind when he created the term “doublethink” but it applies perfectly in this situation.
Here’s the thing, MRA assholes. I already do take common sense approaches to protecting myself from being assaulted. And I WAS STILL ASSAULTED. That’s the point feminists are trying to make!!!
I’m sorry that happened to you, but is it really proof that there’s nothing to do to lower the risk? What you’re saying is a bit like “I wore a seatbelt and still got hurt in a car accident, therefore seat belts are useless!”
Tips on now to protect myself against something imaginary? That’s weird.
Here’s the only tip I need, and it’s for men: DON’T RAPE ME.
Jesus, what fucking douche bags.
[blockquote]I’m sorry that happened to you, but is it really proof that there’s nothing to do to lower the risk? What you’re saying is a bit like “I wore a seatbelt and still got hurt in a car accident, therefore seat belts are useless!”[/quote]
She’s not saying nothing can be done to lower the risks of assault. She’s saying assault can still happen despite taking steps to prevent it, and so feminists focus on rape and assault, rather than caring about rape so that we can “fight against that sort of abstract idea.”
Damn blockquotes.
Futrelle, you are the first feminist I have seen ever acknowledge that the statistic is based on accounts starting from age 14. That is an important distinction that I wish more feminists would acknowledge rather than peddle the false statement that 1 in 4 women will be raped in college.
While I disagree with the hyperbolic language those two men’s activists used, they do have a point that feminists exploit sexual violence against women as a political tool. I cannot say whether feminists do not care about female victims, however, quite often their concern is less for actually solving problems than it is for pushing the “all men are potential rapists” and “all men are responsible for rape” memes. The vast majority of men never commit sexual violence, so it makes no logical sense to go in that direction. It seems fair for some people to assume the motivation for that tactic is only to vilify men.
On a related note, I would like know some of xbyiu’s tips for preventing rape. I have never heard tips that actually work, but perhaps xbyiu stumbled upon something no one else has.
Hengist, car accidents are just that; accidents. No one actually tried to get into a car accident, it just happened. Rape, however, does not happen by accident. A rapist consciously decides that they are going to use another’s body without consent.
On the other hand, if someone in a car decides to mow down a pedestrian on purpose, you’re not going to turn to the pedestrian and go “Well, were you jaywalking? Because if you were jaywalking, what choice did that driver have but to point his car at you and put his foot on the gas?” are you?
“I’m sorry that happened to you, but is it really proof that there’s nothing to do to lower the risk? What you’re saying is a bit like “I wore a seatbelt and still got hurt in a car accident, therefore seat belts are useless!”
No…that was not what she is saying at at all.
Lets stick to your car talk nonsense to show what she was actually saying:
‘So I wore a seatbelt and was driving in a completely street legal manner when someone hit me on purpose. Afterwards a number of assholes asked why the hell I didn’t drive with a roll cage and a custom bumper. Instead of going after the person who hit me on purpose.’
Ugh, car analogies in regards to assault, kind of tasteless Hengist.
Toysoilder, what feminists are saying, by and large, is that rapists are responsible for rape and NOT victims. This is very different from saying “all men are rapists”.
Now, many feminists also say that most rape is committed by men, and so men in general are the focus of the whole “Rapist stop raping!” campaign. If you want to argue against the position that more men than women commit rape, then by all means do so without dragging out the strawfeminist.
Call attention to because it’s extremely fucking important=exploit.
Misogynist math is funny.
What you’re saying is a bit like “I wore a seatbelt and still got hurt in a car accident, therefore seat belts are useless!”
No Hegist, it’s not. There is plenty of evidence that wearing seat belts reduces traffic fatalities. Can you show me a study that links the way a woman dresses or acts to an increased chance of being raped?
Besides, traffic accidents are just that– “accidents.” Rape is a crime that one person perpetrates against another. “She was dressed like a slut” continues to be used to blame the victim for being raped; that’s the whole point of slut walks.
Blaming a woman for being raped is like blaming a victim of a drunk driver for being in a car. If she wasn’t in the car, she wouldn’t have gotten killed, but so fucking what? The blame for the death lies with the drunk driver. The blame for a murder lies with the murderer. The blame for a rape lies with the rapist. Period.
True, however my analogy was about risk. Just because something happened to you even though you took precaution x, does not automatically mean that precaution x is useless and does not, in fact, lower the risk. I don’t know how to make it any clearer than that.
That doesn’t even make sense. And if it’s so tasteless, why are you continuing it?
Shora and Mr. Kobold, great minds think alike. 🙂
What can be done to lower the risk of rape, short of locking yourself in a bunker and never have any contact with other people again? Is there anything that doesn’t decrease your quality of life, that doesn’t make others sneer at you for being a paranoid man-hater, and that has been proven to work?
Also, to stay with your (rather tasteless) analogy, how can one be accidentally raped? As has been pointed out to you, rape is a conscious decision that a rapist makes.
They don’t just slip and accidentally rape someone.
True, however my analogy was about risk. Just because something happened to you even though you took precaution x, does not automatically mean that precaution x is useless and does not, in fact, lower the risk. I don’t know how to make it any clearer than that.
Except that you haven’t presented any evidence that these Helpful Rape Avoidance Tips actually work.
Close tag fail.
No, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I do have a sneaking suspicion that if such a study were to appear, it would be quickly discredited and shouted down by feminists.
Who’s blaming women for being raped? I was talking about things one can do to lower the risk. Would we be having this discussion if I said “don’t take a walk through your neighborhood late at night with a gold chain around your neck and cash hanging out of your pants”?
This is so crazy. Do they even think about the fact that if it wasn’t for some feminist groups, some rape victims would never ever speak of what happened?
Saying they don’t care about the victims is just…stupid.
What are those “risks”?
Most people are raped by someone they know, and in their own home. Ergo, to decrease the risk, they should never hang out with family, friends and acquaintances, and shouldn’t stay at their own home for too long.
Do you see why this is stupid?
I don’t know how to make it clearer that we, as human beings, cannot control the actions of human beings. Thus, if some person rapes someone, it is the rapists fault. This isn’t about risk management! I can’t manage another person’s behavior!
At this point I can’t decide whether you all fail at reading comprehension or are just garden-variety stupid. The analogy was about risk and precautions, not the voluntary/non-voluntary nature of the act. It doesn’t deal with that issue. Seriously, if you’re so desperate to disagree with me on something, at least address my actual points.
Can we please stop equating my right to not have my body violated with having a couple bucks stolen? Thanks