Well, here’s a new twist on the whole “women love assholes” thing. According to the blogger known as Vox Day – a sort of right-wing/PUA hybrid – the best way for a fella to capture the attention of a comely lass is to rape and murder another comely lass. Yep. He seems to have confused “Game” — that is, pick-up artist trickery — with The Most Dangerous Game. Oh, Vox stops short of recommending that his readers actually go out and murder women, but he argues this women-love-killers argument in all seriousness:
I don’t believe I could recommend this as a strategy for most men, but it is surely educational to learn that raping and killing a woman is demonstrably more attractive to women than behaving like a gentleman. And women, before all the inevitable snowflaking commences, please note that there is absolutely nothing to argue about here. It is an established empirical fact.
His empirical “proof” of this assertion? The fact that some Japanese women have set up online fan clubs for Tatsuya Ichihashi, an accused murderer.
From this one data point, Vox seems to have made a somewhat hasty generalization based on the notion that all women are the same person – that is, if one woman thinks or does something, all women think or do that same thing.
Yes, there are women — and men — who find themselves attracted to vile human beings. Some women idolize murderers. Some men think Ann Coulter is hot. That doesn’t mean that all women idolize murderers or that all men want to get it on with Ms. Coulter. It just means that some people have really, really, really appalling taste.
But let’s just assume for a moment that Vox’s basic premise is true: all women love violent psycopaths,. If you’ want to get with the ladies, but aren’t so hard up for a date that you’re actually willing to resort to homicide, is there some other way you convey what a violent psychopath you are to the ladies of the world? Yep, says Vox:
[I]f you are being introduced to a woman you find attractive, she will be more attracted to you if you slap her in the face without warning and walk away without explanation than if you smile and tell her that you are very pleased to meet her. Now this, being a mere hypothesis, can be argued. And tested, if you’re feeling especially scientific this weekend.
I really hope none of his readers take him up on this.
Is Vox being altogether serious about this? Yes and no. About the idea that women love killers? Absolutely serious. About actually assaulting women? He’s a bit more cagey. On his blog Alpha Game, Vox elaborates:
Women find it sexier for you to rape and kill a woman than putting them on pedestals and being a nice guy. I’m not saying that you should rape and kill anyone, but I would recommend, at the very least, dropping the nice guy routine and pushing over the pedestals.
Women have plenty of positive attributes. But they’re not angels, and when it comes to what sexually attracts them, even the nice, well-bred ones are more insanely twisted, from the male perspective, than the average serial killer.
So apparently the only truly happy couples in the world are those in which both partners think like serial killers.
What a romantic!
I actually agree with this, many PUA-types are unfortunately thinking in a binary system where the guy is either a thug (who gets the ladies) or a wuss. Part of the problem is that a lot of girls, especially in the younger generation, really are more attracted to the dangerous ‘bad boys’, ‘thugs’ and ‘street’ guys, especially the ones with a ‘cocky jerk’ vibe.
What gets me is that while feminists constantly mock and criticize PUAs, they can’t really offer any meaningful dating advice themselves. It’s all stuff like “well, you gotta be yourself, and um… be a good person, be confident etc” combined with snide patronizing remarks like “well, y’know, ya gotta treat women like human beings!” Unfortunately, this is no help to the guy who’s “been himself” for 20-something years and is still alone. So when he has a choice between PUAs who claim to have the answer (even if it’s something wacky like “women dig serial killers”) or feminists who’ll make fun of him and tell him it’s all his fault for being a loser, guess who he’ll listen to.
Except here, here, and here. But that was just a 30 second Google search using well known sites.
Really people, dating is an activity. You have to participate in it, not sit in your basement wondering why super models aren’t busting down your door.
A lot of dating is either “what not to do,” extremely personal stuff or just plain luck. Which means that feminist dating advice would boil down to:
–Ask people out. Don’t do creepy or pedestalizing or objectifying stuff like X, Y or Z.
–It works for me to cuddle/tease people/talk about Magic/act like an asshole and fucked if I know how I get laid/compliment people/stand around looking pretty until someone hits on me/go on Craigslist, maybe it’ll work for you.
–Be more lucky.
cynickal, did you read those articles? One is the perspective of a male feminist, the others are tales of feminist women in the dating world. There’s no advice for guys there at all.
Yes, that’s the snide condescension I was talking about. Thanks for illustrating.
I don’t disagree with people who note that “be more lucky” is useless advice. I’m going to guess you don’t either. The thing is, no advice really works; conversely, if someone likes you at least slightly, any approach that isn’t actively off-putting will be effective.
Hengist, there are plenty of feminist who do not make fun of men that are alone and want dating advice. That is a situation plenty of both men and women deal with in life. It’s not something to ridicule at all. One of the many problems of PUA advice is that it is one size fits all. Sure, some women may respond well to negging, kino, and whatever else PUA’s do. Plenty of women don’t like any of that, though.
I don’t think someone should put on act to try to win someone else. If two people are compatible, there is no need for gimmicks and games. The hard thing is finding someone that thinks you’re great just the way you are. I’m going to agree with Ozy that a good deal of luck comes into play for a person to find a compatible person.
Now here is a list of my own personal opinion on how someone can have better luck with love. This is purely my opinion.
1. Be genuinely nice to people. Don’t treat kindess like Nice Guys that want rewards given to them when they do something nice for someone else. Be nice just for the sake of being nice. Stay away from people that want to take advantage of your kindness.
2. Get involved in groups and activities that you like. Then you can find people that have common interests.
3. Put a basic effort into your appearance. You don’t have to be obsessed with your looks, but just keep up good hygiene.
4. Take the initiative and flirt with people you like but don’t come on too strong. Don’t use pick up lines. Just start up a conversation and hope things go well.
5. Have a good sense of humor, especially a self deprecating one. Many people are more attractive if they can laugh at themselves.
mags:
Well, yes, since half of all rape accusations are false and false accusations have a 100% conviction rate, a convicted rapist is probably safer than average</mra>
BlackBloc:
By the time I showed up in ’97 it wasn’t that awful. I’ve seen forums harder to follow than Usenet — all of them, in fact, save Manboobz and TV Tropes (and I no longer visit the TV Tropes forums for other reasons).
Actually Anders Breivik, the Norwegian mass murderer is getting tonnes of love letters in jail, and what about the women who fell in love with Richard Ramirez, he actually married one of his groupies. Says it all about what modern women like.
And here’s a link to the ‘phenomenon’.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-03-27/news/17365699_1_death-row-san-quentin-state-prison-laci-peterson
So did Casey Anthony. Some people are fucked up, this is true! It’s not a condition unique to women! Famous people, even fucked up ones, get a lot of positive attention. The thing is, not even most women do this. I don’t even think you can say a plurality do.
I mean, shit, can you idiots get your stories about what the female hive mind wants, for once? You seem to bounce between “Thugs”, Harvard-educated rich guys, and hot actors in uneven measure and with varying frequency!
Well, I guess that if someone doesn’t take you by the hand and tell you each specific step in a Choose-Your-Own-Dating-Adventure style, Paint-by-Numbers guide on how to interact with people you’re just not capable of watching, observing and learning.
But then again, we knew that from the posts you’ve been leaving behind like a trail of liquid feces.
I’d apologize for being “snide” but the logical and verbal wreckage you leave here, when not internet stalking people or trying to pick fist-fights doesn’t exactly leave me feeling generous.
@Blackbloc: Oh hell yes I used Usenet. Why do you *think* I asked for a direct link? I’d rather eat glass than go searching around in that swamp.
WRT “waaa they like serial killers”: it’s just the usual excuse of guys who aren’t getting the female attention they think they deserve (whether that’s ‘any at all’ or ‘Zoe Saldana won’t return my tweets’). It’s because them bitches are crazy and wouldn’t go for a nice guy, like me.
Do these guys really WANT to go out with the sort of person who admires serial killers? Or do they not think it through that far?
I don’t think who they themselves want to go out with is the point, really, they’re just trying to find ways to prove that women love “jerks” again. Because if women do not in fact love jerks then their entire worldview collapses like a house of cards.
There are some things I’ll never get my head around. But with this bloke, I’m glad of it. 😉
Translation: “I’m too stupid/lazy to answer the question but I really wanted to take a shot at you, so I’ll just give a non-relevant answer and then act like it’s your fault for not ‘getting it'”.
Thanks for playing, Mr. Armstrong.
The projection is strong in this one: Translation: “I’m too stupid/lazy to answer the question but I really wanted to take a shot at you, so I’ll just give a non-relevant answer and then act like it’s your fault for not ‘getting it’”.
The first one, has specific advice, and links to more. I guess what Hengist meant when he said, “feminist” was, “woman”, because that’s the only reason he’s dismissing the first one (unless his reading comprehension is so low that, “here is my list of advice” no advice at all. This is a proposition which might bear further investigation).
This could also explain why the advice in the third (which boils down to treat her as a person who is interesting in her own right, not merely as a reflection of the glory which is you. Let her speak, don’t get defensive when her opinions challenge yours; which can be hard. It’s not good, however, when you react by saying her opinions are without any merit and just stupid, etc.) seems to be irrelevant because it’s just accounts of a female feminists dating problems.
Yep, nothing useful to takeaway from a first person account of what guys are doing wrong (and the concomitant warning, implicit in a specific complaint that one should avoid it), and the explanation of what would be good instead.
Instead, he gives a non-answer and acts like it’s cynickal’s fault for not finding him a spoon-feeding.
Trollish types, take heed, this is how it’s done.
Hengist:
You think a woman talking about what she likes and doesn’t like in dating is of no consequence for the men who want to date them?
Why is the perspective of a male feminist not relevant to any guys at all?
“Why is the perspective of a male feminist not relevant to any guys at all?”
Remember when Ion was on here and he linked to an article of a “self-proclaimed Male femenist” harassing a woman, joining in with EWME’s “mocking”?
To these guys, any sign of decency to a woman is, “Trying to get the pussy.” If you think there are things like “friendship” or “just some guy I talk to in class when I need help with classwork/homework”…you’re wrong, and that’s that.
Pecunium, you’ve really got a hard-on for me lately, haven’t you? No, I’m actually not interested in either a male feminist’s musings, or the experiences of a feminist womyn in the dating world. I’d rather stay celibate forever than try to date a feminist (and yes, I know the standard reply: “You’re afraid/can’t handle strong women!” – and honestly I don’t care, I’m not about to spend my life with a sarcastic humorless know-it-all harpy with a nasty attitude and a chip on her shoulder, just to prove something). So yeah, I was talking about regular advice for normal people.
Which, now that I think about it, is rather silly to ask on a blog full of snarky feminists and their fawning male lackeys, so I retract the question. :p
So let me get this straight, Hengist. You thought that it would be reasonable not just to ask for a dating guide that addressed your particular issues, but to ask for it from people who in your opinion such a guide would not be relevant to, and you did it in a whiny way that implied that they were horrible people for not having provided such a guide already?
This is a good illustration of why the first principle of feminism is “I am not your mommy”.
Cassandra: Not “my particular issues”, but rather the issues of normal, mainstream people. And yes, you’re right, which is why I withdrew the question. I don’t know about “whiny”, though, that’s probably projection on your part.
Don’t worry, I don’t think anyone would ever confuse you for the motherly kind.
Heh. Heh. Heh.
What happened to “Uncle Adam”?
They’re so cute when thier dumber than pudding.
So when again were you coming to Seattle?
Hey, since I’m too lazy for your taste, where do you live?
You already have my phone number and email.
Drop it on the backside to me and I’ll meet you.
Honestly, boy, you’re treading on my last nerve.
How do you know we haven’t met already? 😀
Because you are too much of a wuss to actually talk to cynical?