Hey, everybody, here’s another massive list of ridiculous comments from the Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit on the subjects of women, feminists and feminism. Some, er, highlights:
Never trust a woman. When you are out and they are around, go the other way. Your life may actually depend on you crossing the street or not taking that elevator or not working late in a office with another lonely woman.
Women are keen to assert all of the benefits that modern society affords them, but at the same time quick to twist their hair into pigtails and play the “I’m just a girl” defense when the traditional benefits of being a woman would suit them better.
Misandrist feminists want gender based apartheid, and the male population culled to lest than 10%
Feminism does NOT create strong women – it creates dependency and a stunted intellect.
In the feminist community, bigotry is met with a groundswell of support, and is very rarely called out.
That last one is just a teensy bit ironic, given that most of the comments above were heavily upvoted – in other words, “met with a groundswell of support.” Further evidence of this irony: oh, just the hundreds of misogynistic statements from MRAs I’ve linked to on this blog.
For links to the original comments in context, see the full list on Reddit. Props to the Redditor known as Squibbling for having the patience to assemble all of this.
@ Graham – Would you like the internet which you have just won delivered via UPS or FedEx?
I don’t really understand why they think women would just go to false rape accusations right off the bat. Surely, a much easier strategy would be:
1) A woman sleeps with a man, consensually.
2) She’s worried someone might call her a slut.
3) She doesn’t tell anyone she slept with the man.
It’s a sensible strategy, and one that is probably very much in use already by women who don’t want to be viewed as sluts.
Hengist: Funny how we don’t see a “Schrodinger’s False Rape Accuser” or a “Black men, whites fear you” lecture.
Interesting: You are saying you think false rape accusations are a real threat? YOu are also saying that you think black men are a real threat to whites.
Or are you arguing that men aren’t a real threat to women?
Maybe you don’t understand the issues. Maybe you don’t understand the analogy.
So, against my better judgement, I’ll take a stab at making them plain (not that I really expect to convince you, but there may be others who stumble upon the problem).
In Schrödinger’s cat problem the cat is either alive, or dead. One can’t know until the box is opened.
In the same way some unknown number of men are rapists. Until one of them does something one can’t know that he isn’t.
so far, so good.
The idea is sound, the tricky parts are the explanation and the understanding. You seem to think it says, “all men are rapists,” when it actually says, “any man might be a rapist”
Now lets look at the flip-side.
You allege that all men need to worry that all women are capable of falsely accusing them of rape.
This is a true statement. The next question becomes, what is the real risk? That is, how likely is it in the first place, and what are the repurcussions.
The answer to the first question is not very likely. The answer to the second question is also not very much. Why? Because the elements of the case are such that making a plausible explanation requires more than just a woman saying, “I was raped. He did it.”
Even in what look to be clear cut cases of rape the results are often acquittal (google “De Anza College rape”). Is it a hassle? Yes. So too is any case of being accused of a crime one didn’t commit (I’ve been arrested for shooting at someone’s house. I wasn’t home at the time the crime took place. The cops did piss-all for investigating, and the next day I was, “identified”, and hauled away. Cost me a small amount of money [lost bail] and put aspects of my life on hold, because I was, in theory, being investigated for a felony).
But according to the stats, the incidence of false rape accusation is not significantly greater than for any other crime. Which means, when the rate of prosecution (low) is combined with the rate of conviction (low) the risk of repurcussion from a false rape accusation is about what it was for my alleged, “Shots fired, inhabited dwelling”.
When all is said and done, an inconvenience, and one most men are never likely to be victim of.
And your attempt to disprove that, What does that mean? That false accusations aren’t a problem because they’re not as common as rape? (That’s not even a given, by the way, with figures for false accusations ranging from 8% to over 40% depending on the source). is laughable.
That doesn’t quantify rapes, it quanitfies; at best, specific accusations of rapists. The number of rapes which aren’t pursued to the point of putting anybody into the category of suspect isn’t included in that. Since the most generous figure for prosecution (which is the real worry, being a suspect is meaningless for this purpose; being arrested is what matters), is about 50 percent of reported rapes, you have to assume that 40 percent figure [citation please] to get close to saying the problem is near the problem of rape.
I don’t think you can. I don’t think you can find a reputable source for numbers of false accusation above 10 percent. Which comes back to the disparate effect problem.
Unless you are alleging that any woman, at any time, can accuse any man; with no evidence, then the “Schrödinger’s Accuser” is a strawman, a convenient diversionary tactic to keep the discussion from being about rapists.
And the evidence is that it’s not. All these guys who aren’t in jail are proof. If it were that easy, then all it would take is a small cadre of really angry women to shut up all the people you say they want to eradicate. A quick phone call, and Paul Elam is in jail.
But it’s not happening.
I don’t quite know what to make of the comment about blacks. Are you alleging that whites have a legitimate reason to fear them, and not having a campaign about it is wrong? Or that having such a campaign would be justified, because of the risks you think blacks pose to whites.
Good luck defending that. Not because “oh my god, he said bad things about blacks,” but because, as with the “false rape” issue, the stats don’t support it.
Funny. MRAs are often the ones who think of feminists- or even women as a whole- as not being human (or being of less worth than their male counterparts). When they say things that make women out to be demons, it’s obviously dehumanizing them.
Fucking hypocrites. MRAs don’t know shit.
I keep wondering at the fear of a rape accusation in all these men. I’d had a fair number of partners (not Simon’s, “hundred”), but more than most. I can’t say as I’ve ever worried about any of them, even the one time wonders, saying it was rape.
That’s the part I don’t get. Am I supposed to be afraid that every woman I pass on the street will decide I “spat” on her, and call the cops? How could she? She doesn’t have my name; she’d have to pick a time/place which was plausible, etc.
Which brings us back to the people I’ve actually slept with, and again, I don’t get it.
That’s where the “Schrödinger’s Accuser” falls apart. It requires sex to really work. At that point she has to be really dedicated to it; to sleep with (or at least engineer a situation that would make it plausible) the victim. That means it’s not random.
So I am, again, left to wonder at the way these men, so scared of being accused of rape, are going about it.
I confess, back in the mid-’80s, when “date rape” was being talked about, I was worried. I didn’t know the ways in which my desire might be seen as “forcing myself” on someone. I was afraid that, as Katie Roiphie said, “sometimes you just have bad sex”, might be converted to “rape”. But it never happened. I made my interests plain, they made their interests plain, we did what we felt like doing (or not, depending on who wanted what), and called it a good time.
So I’m confused. What is the seed crystal for all this fear? What are they doing they think might be seen as rape?
“So I’m confused. What is the seed crystal for all this fear? What are they doing they think might be seen as rape?”
That is the question, isn’t it?
Pecunium: Raping people?
@ CassandraSays, re Graham – You also shoulda asked him if he wanted his Internet chocolate-covered!
I love how these MRA geniuses lament the fact that rape laws today prevent men from being men, and that women who wear slutty clothes are “asking for it”, but then get offended by their delusional perceived notion that feminists paint all men as potential rapists.
So I’m confused. What is the seed crystal for all this fear? What are they doing they think might be seen as rape?
I think that a lot of them have a mentality where sex always consists of holding down a girl who’s staring dully into the middle distance, and the only difference between sex and rape is whether she secretly wanted to do that or not.
I think a lot of them–maybe especially the young’uns–have never had or seen what genuinely enthusiastic sex looks like. I’m not saying they’re rapists (some women do actually want that and a lot–especially the young’uns–are willing to tolerate it), but they don’t have any idea that sex can be completely unrapey.
I also think that some of this just comes from thinking that women are space aliens, and who knows why a space alien does anything? If you believe that women’s decisions are literally random and not subject to human motivations, there’s always the chance she might randomly accuse you of rape.
Is an ideology where it’s adherents must justify themselves that they don’t want to kill 45% of the earth’s human population – that means an ideology where this suspicion justifiably arouses – not an ideology that should be seen with extreme precautions and distrust?
@Allie Gill:
I love how these MRA geniuses lament the fact that rape laws today prevent men from being men, and that women who wear slutty clothes are “asking for it”, but then get offended by their delusional perceived notion that feminists paint all men as potential rapists.
Well, we have to see this in the right context. The original xkcd comic that caused all this uproar and was the reason the word “Schrödinger’s rapist” was coined, wasn’t about a woman that dressed slutty with the intent to get raped but about a girl who brings her new netbook along to get the attention of a boy she likes.
So what’s the “it” in “asking for it”?
If it’s “being raped” than it would be surely hypocritical.
But if “it” is less than “hitting on somebody” then I fail to see the hypocrisy…
I’d had a fair number of partners (not Simon’s, “hundred”), but more than most.
!?!?! Hundred?
To follow up on Holly’s point, here’s an actual transcript, as close to verbatim as I can manage, of a conversation I had a couple of years ago with a guy who was worrying about being falsely accused of rape:
Me: You know, if it helps, there’s a really easy way to make it very nearly certain that you will never be accused of rape (and even more certain that if you are so accused, nothing will come of it) – only have sex with people who clearly want to have sex with you.
Him: How am I supposed to do that?
Me: …what do you mean? It’s generally not hard to tell if someone wants to have sex with you. They will do things like, y’know, saying, “I want to have sex with you!”
Him: Okay, but what if she’s not that into it but goes along with it anyway?
Me: Um. I’m not sure why you would want to have sex with someone you knew wasn’t into it in the first place. But if you want to make sure nothing you do could be construed as rape, I’d really suggest not browbeating people into having sex, or trying to have sex with someone you know is reluctant, or generally ever having sex with someone who is just “going along with it” rather than being enthusiastic about the whole having-sex-with-you thing.
Him: But then how would I ever get laid?!
Me: *gapes at him silently*
I don’t even know where to begin with this mentality, but it’s real and it’s out there and it disturbs the heck out of me.
Amused and Darksidecat, I’ve wondered the same things myself. For MRAs that accuse all women of thinking that all men are rapists, they reinforce that belief by telling women not to dress like sluts because they’ll be more likely to get raped by some guy who can’t control his urges.
So MRA’s believe that there are guys out there who would do anything for sex, including raping someone? and that there are so many of them that all women should not show any skin anywhere for fear of tempting these men?
Sounds to me like MRAs believe that men are more likely to rape than women do.
I also don’t understand why MRAs get angry at feminists and people overall for speaking against rape and rape culture, when you’d think they would get angry at rapists instead for making all men look bad. I don’t think that male rapists reflect men as a whole, nor does anyone I know. But MRAs are so committed to thinking that feminists and women do so, so why dont they go after the rapists who are supposedly making women scared of every potential man they meet and be all “hey, would you stop with the raping thing, you’re making us look bad”
Even moreso, how about speaking out against PUAs, whom many don’t believe that “no means no” and use predatory and manipulative tactics to obtain sex?
And on the topic of false rape accusations, Why can’t they be discussed separately from discussions that are specifically about rape victims and rape prevention? I’m starting to see it as nothing but a tactic to shut feminists up about discussing and preventing rape. Any decent human being would speak out against rape, yet again MRAs always throw themselves into these discussions and make themselves out to be the victim of this supposed “false rape epidemic”
By this reasoning, we should really distrust the Jews.
Right. That’s why the point WASN’T “the boy is a rapist,” but “she can’t be certain the boy isn’t a rapist.”
That’s a really, really different thing.
Are we really back to the “feminists think all men are rapists and the Schrodinger’s Rapist blog post proves it” thing.
Pro tip, guys – this question was already hashed out and thoroughly debunked on the comments on the original SR post. Go read them.
I’ve encountered men like the ones Polliwog is talking about. They scare the crap out of me. I do not in fact think that all men are rapists, but those particular men? It’s really only a matter of time, because they don’t actually have any problem at all with raping someone, they’re just looking for ways to make sure that if and when they do, the victim can’t get them in trouble for it.
My god, you are a myopic nerd…
Wow, that’s a fucking red flag there. Wanting Attention != Wanting nonconsensual sex.
Unless you’re one of those asshats who thinks a man must rape if he fails tog et sex after being aroused, in which case, congratulations, you hate men more than feminists.
Wow, I didn’t even notice that.
Dear creepy dude – in general, women do not want to be raped. There are a few specific cases where some women want to roleplay rape in a BSDM concept, but this is not the same thing as actual rape. By definition rape is sex that the victim does not want, therefore it is a logical impossibility for someone to go out “wanting to be raped”, you sexist imbecile.
Context, not concept. This dude is so creepy he’s apparently rendered me temporarily unable to spell or type.
@Polliwog:
I don’t even know where to begin with this mentality, but it’s real and it’s out there and it disturbs the heck out of me.
But if this guy has had such experiences, that girls simply won’t enthusiastically sleep with him, how can you discount this as “mentality”?
Maybe it’s just the truth, that men wouldn’t practically have any sex when they would refrain from sleeping with women that just “going along with it”.
@Holly Pervocracy:
Right. That’s why the point WASN’T “the boy is a rapist,” but “she can’t be certain the boy isn’t a rapist.”
That’s a really, really different thing.
1. No, Kate Harding wrote:
“The punchline of the strip is — haha! — the chick wanted it all along! She’s aching for some sweet sweet cock! If only men hadn’t been so paralyzed by feminist talk about rape culture and personal respect, she’d get hit on by more men, which is exactly what she wants on the train! “
I don’t think this was meant as the punchline of the strip.
2. What dangerous situation is possible there? The girl is on a public train on daytime. If she’s already afraid that he might rape her, is she getting stupefied with horror when he says “Hey, cute netbook” and that’s the reason why he shouldn’t do it or what?
Simon: Is an ideology where it’s adherents must justify themselves that they don’t want to kill 45% of the earth’s human population – that means an ideology where this suspicion justifiably arouses – not an ideology that should be seen with extreme precautions and distrust?
Such an ideology would indeed justify it.
Now, show me the ideologic (as opposed to the individuals) who are publishing this as the formal doctrine of “Feminism”.
On the flip side, a group which believes that, in the face of the evidence, might not be the group one wants to identify oneself with.
Hundred… sorry, I confused you with qwert. Mea culpa.
MRAs say that feminists want to engage in gendercide –> Feminists point out that no, they don’t want to engage in gendercide –> Simon says feminism is an ideology that has to explain that they don’t want to engage in gendercide, and are therefore very suspicious. Rinse, repeat.
It’s the circle of life. Hey, that gives me an idea.
Simon, why are you for murdering all midgets?
What does that mean?
Words! How the fuck do they work? The logic is not strong in this one.
In case you were wondering, there’s more raping going on than there are false accusations of rape. You can pretend that that’s not a fact, but it is. Also, if all of the women a guy has slept with accuse him of rape, and we use your bogus 40%, that means that 60% of them are telling the truth. I am not interested in dating a rapist.
Naira – I’m working on looking for the link – this was a guy that PZ Meyers wrote about. I’m talking about a specific kook, and his website was comedy gold, I was laughing for hours. When I find it – if I do, and it works – I’ll post it for you.
Simon, I’m really trying to parse your word salad, but so what if guys go with out sex from women who aren’t enthusiastic about it? No one ever died from not having sex.
I am currently dating a boy who doesn’t want sex with me at the moment. I am currently not having sex with him, even though I REALLY REALLY WANT TO.
Because I wait for affirmative consent.
Affirmative consent isn’t a “men always want sex, women deny it” thing; it’s a “don’t have sex with people who don’t want you to” thing. General rule of thumb: if your partner isn’t actively agreeing to sex with you? DON’T HAVE SEX WITH THEM.