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antifeminism false accusations misogyny MRA reddit

“Feminists don’t even think of men as human,” and other insights from Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit.

This, oddly, was one of the first results in a Google image search for "hatred of women." So I'm going with it.

Hey, everybody, here’s another massive list of ridiculous comments from the  Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit on the subjects of women, feminists and feminism. Some, er, highlights:

Never trust a woman. When you are out and they are around, go the other way. Your life may actually depend on you crossing the street or not taking that elevator or not working late in a office with another lonely woman.

Women are keen to assert all of the benefits that modern society affords them, but at the same time quick to twist their hair into pigtails and play the “I’m just a girl” defense when the traditional benefits of being a woman would suit them better.

Misandrist feminists want gender based apartheid, and the male population culled to lest than 10%

 

 

Feminism does NOT create strong women – it creates dependency and a stunted intellect.

In the feminist community, bigotry is met with a groundswell of support, and is very rarely called out.

That last one is just a teensy bit ironic, given that most of the comments above were heavily upvoted – in other words, “met with a groundswell of support.” Further evidence of this irony: oh, just the hundreds of misogynistic statements from MRAs I’ve linked to on this blog.

For links to the original comments in context, see the full list on Reddit. Props to the Redditor known as Squibbling for having the patience to assemble all of this.

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Pecunium
8 years ago

Hengist: Wow Pecunium, you really take this internet arguing thing seriously, don’t you. Yet for all the verbal diarrhea you spew, you haven’t actually said much. My point was, if men can be blamed and told ‘women fear them’ because a tiny percentage of them are rapists, why shouldn’t we have an event where black folks are told white people fear them because a small percentage of them have, at some point, mugged a white guy? Of course we shouldn’t. It’d be absurd in both cases. Unfortunately, one of them is real.

You are trying to defend the racist argument that blacks need to understand why whites are afraid of them, by saying that since some whites are attacked by some blacks whites are justified in saying blacks are all crooks.

Wait… you aren’t, “really” saying that. Instead you are saying the number of rapes is so insignificant that women shouldn’t be afraid of men. They shouldn’t think that just any man might rape them.

In support you say, As for Schrodinger’s rapist, I repeat… statistics show that in 85% of rape cases the victim knew the attacker, and was often in a relationhip with him*”. Seems to me that undercuts your case.

If 85 percent of the rapes are performed by people who are known, and whom the victim has some level of relational trust… that means 85 percent of the rapes were committed by “safe” men. Men who didn’t look like rapists.

Shrödinger’s rapist.

*This is where that II take arguing seriously, internet, face to face, critical papers, letters to the editor, etc., comes into play. You are presenting this as if it means they had a romantic/sexual relationship. This isn’t true, and it’s not what the statistics say. I have a relationship with my former housemate. Had I raped her that is how it would be decribed, “known relationship”. In most cases I could afford to leave that out, because it’s semantically null, but if I did, you’d bring it up as a sign of my being less than honest.

But hey, you accuse me of not caring about the issues, when you are what… in a pure pursuit for the truth?

Pecunium
8 years ago

Hengist: Amused: I was referring to women being told they should be wary of strangers

You were? I thought you were saying it’s unfair for women to look at any man as if he might be a rapist, you know, the problem of, Shrödinger’s rapist.

KathleenB
KathleenB
8 years ago

No he’s not. It’s not Bill’s responsibility to be aware of all of Alice’s little quirks and phobias and accommodate for them. It’s her responsibility to act like a grown-up human being in control of herself and her mental state.

Have you ever had a panic attack? It’s not exactly something you control. And in the example, she told him that what he was doing was causing panic attacks. If what you are doing is causing someone else distress, it is your responsibility as a FUCKING HUMAN BEING to stop doing what is causing distress. How is this such a difficult thing to comprehend?

Kollege Messerschmitt
8 years ago

No he’s not. It’s not Bill’s responsibility to be aware of all of Alice’s little quirks and phobias and accommodate for them. It’s her responsibility to act like a grown-up human being in control of herself and her mental state.

…well, don’t you sound like a great and caring friend? /sarcasm

Seriously, if it was so easy to control, I’m pretty sure Alice would just do exactly that.
I’m seconding Polliwog: try that shit on a war veteran with PTSD.

Pecunium
8 years ago

I’m seconding Polliwog: try that shit on a war veteran with PTSD.

No, don’t. The odds are it won’t do anything but screw with the vet. Most of us don’t lash out and assault people. Hell, most of us don’t have the sort of triggers that someone can set off on purpose (with the exception of fireworks).

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

“The “violent rape by a stranger” is comparatively quite rare, so why blame and demonize all men for something a tiny fraction of them will ever think about, let alone actually do?”

Because it’s not about blaming men, it’s about women doing what they have to in order to stay safe. 15% is still enough of a risk to be worth taking into account.

Also I don’t think you understand the stat you’re quoting. For the purposes of that statistic they’re counting men who the women “knew” in the sense of a guy you see and say hi to on the bus sometimes, or the barista who makes you coffee a few times a week. It’s not a “good friends and family only” sort of classification, so telling women that they shouldn’t be concerned about men who they see out and about who they get a bad vibe from is silly, because the stat includes “that creepy guy who always tries to talk to me on the train” as men who the victim knows.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

Oh, just to be clear, I don’t actually advocate saying repulsive things about people with PTSD to anyone, let alone people with PTSD, because that is awful. I just think people who say those repulsive things should think a bit more about some of the people they’re saying them about, which doesn’t just include icky little vagina-bearing assault survivors like me, but also big manly heroic men of the sort they purportedly support.

Or, to put that another way, if you wouldn’t call the war hero less than “grown-up” for having a traumatic reaction to triggers, you probably shouldn’t say it about anyone else, either.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Also RE our Bill and Alice hypothetical…I have a friend who’s scared of both clowns and those little mechanical monkey-with-a-drum things. Now, both of those are in fact rather silly fears, since most clowns are not the monster from It, and it means that she’s scared of Ronald McDonald, which makes no sense to me at all. However, since I am not a giant asshole, I make a point of avoiding exposing her to clowns, since they scare her. I do not invite her to the circus and then berate her for having such an unreasonable fear, because again, not an asshole.

Captain Bathrobe
8 years ago

@CassandraSays:

it means that she’s scared of Ronald McDonald, which makes no sense to me at all.

Considering the shit he’s selling, I think being afraid of Ronald McDonald is quite rational. But I don’t think that’s what your friend has in mind. 🙂

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

@ CB – I think I’d be most afraid of the fact that according to research the playground is full of ecoli bacteria. And yet look at that clown, blatantly enticing children to go play there. K is right – he is evil.

Captain Bathrobe
8 years ago

Not to mention blatantly getting them hooked on junk food, and suing anyone who says his food isn’t healthy. Satan himself envies the clown his evilness.

Captain Bathrobe
8 years ago

Yeah, I’m the hand-washing fascist around my house for that very reason. Germs! Germs everywhere!

Kollege Messerschmitt
8 years ago

No, don’t. The odds are it won’t do anything but screw with the vet. Most of us don’t lash out and assault people. Hell, most of us don’t have the sort of triggers that someone can set off on purpose (with the exception of fireworks).

That is true, of course ):
It was more of a rhetorical thing, since I think even Hengist would understand that making fun of vets with PTSD is a really, really fucking assholish thing to do, and hopefully wouldn’t take that dare seriously, right?
I mean, there can’t actually be people who are THAT much of sociopathic douchebags… r-right?

But just in case:
Hengist: Don’t actually try that shit on war vets.

Bee
Bee
8 years ago

If 85 percent of the rapes are performed by people who are known, and whom the victim has some level of relational trust… that means 85 percent of the rapes were committed by “safe” men. Men who didn’t look like rapists.

OK, so here’s a problem. The “85 percent of the rapes are performed by people who are known” part is correct, but the “and whom the victim has some level of rational trust” part is not. “People who are known” includes blind dates, the janitor at your school, the lady down the street who waves at you, your friend’s coworker who you talked to that one time, etc. These are people who the victim has come into contact with, not necessarily people they have formed any kind of relationship with.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Oh, Bee, trying to get Hengist to see nuance is impossible.

nugganu
8 years ago

Wow, you people are obsessed with rape. I’m half expecting some pics of Futrelle hogtied on a picnic bench getting it from a gang of bull-dykes with strap-ons soon.

Pecunium
8 years ago

Bee: Ok, if one is looking at anyone who is passing familiar, then the level of, “rational trust” one has is less. But if we are talking levels of acquaintance which lets the rapist into a position where the rape is easier to initiate, then some level of reasoned trust was applied. Even at the level of, “this guys seems nice enough to go on a date with”, is a level (if not all that high a bar) of rational trust.

Pecunium
8 years ago

nugganu: We aren’t the one’s writing the posts being mocked, so the obsession seems to be with the MRA types.

As to your fantasies… well if it works for you, go to town, but change the sheets before dates.

cynickal
cynickal
8 years ago

…and burn them after.

Simon
Simon
8 years ago

@Pecunium:

Regarding Keith Edwards: yes, it nearly boils down to locking me up in a room and forcing me to listen to him, for example as I know, his rape prevention programs are obligatory for students in colleges. Keith also says the exact opposite of what you think. He says something like: It’s in the interest of men to end campus rape because then they’re not seen as rapists anymore but as capable of entering caring and emotion-based relationships.

If you take that serious, you could really think that feminists don’t think of men as humans, to get back to the topic.

I always thought, that we should want to stop the really serious crimes without extra motivation. Wouldn’t it be offensive to say “Dear Muslims, if you could stop Islamic terrorism, your religion would be seen as peaceful, wouldn’t that be AWESOME?”, too?

The “capable of entering caring…” part oh God, daaamn, I don’t care if I’m seen as “capable of entering caring and emotion-based relationships”, I’m as aromantic as you can be and still I don’t go around raping women.

It’s so funny when you always complain about the MRAs that compare being a gold-digger or adultery with rape, now it’s ok, if someone uses such insinuations on men.

What if nwoslave says: “Keith Edwards is right, but since women don’t allow men to enter caring relationships, we have so many rapists!!!!”?

Of course I made a “from A => B follows that B => A” errors here, but I made it deliberately, because that’s what our coward Keith Edwards deserves, who constantly tries to connect things, that have absolutely nothing to do with each other, in that manner.

Pecunium
8 years ago

Simon: If you could stop the MRAs saying women are scum that would make Men’s Rights seem reasonable.

I have to say that I’ve never heard of him. None of my college aged friends have mentioned him. I just spent a couple of years attending general ed classes at an undergraduate institution, his name never came up (nor was there any mandatory anti-rape training).

And if he’s daft, he’s daft, ignore him and move on.

But, I always figured that if I wasn’t committing crimes (like the lectures I got, annually, on how to avoid breaching various protocols regarding classified information, or the one’s about the Geneva Conventions,and how not to violate them, and the one’s about torture,and the allowable limits in interrogations), that I could listen, see if there was anything that applied to me, and go about my business.

Why? Because there are people who forget about how to maintain OpSec on classified material, and people who forget what the limits of Geneva are, or who need to be reminded they can’t tell people they will be hanged as a spy if they don’t talk, etc.

And seeing to it those people are kept on the straight and narrow is just fine with me. So when I see a list of things that relate to changing attitudes about rape, I read them, nod my head (taking note of anything which is new) and go about my life.

Why? Because I like women, and I’d like for them to not be raped. The only way to do that is convince the people who are raping them that it’s not acceptable. That no means no (whenever it’s said) an enthusiastic consent is the order of the day.

Bee
Bee
8 years ago

Bee: Ok, if one is looking at anyone who is passing familiar, then the level of, “rational trust” one has is less. But if we are talking levels of acquaintance which lets the rapist into a position where the rape is easier to initiate, then some level of reasoned trust was applied. Even at the level of, “this guys seems nice enough to go on a date with”, is a level (if not all that high a bar) of rational trust.

The 85 percent figure includes acquaintances, relatives, friends, dates, and people the victim barely knows at all but has seen before and knows who they are. Just because one doesn’t run screaming from the grocery store stocker doesn’t mean one trusts him to any degree.

KathleenB
KathleenB
8 years ago

nugganu: Yeah, having your bodily integrity violated is such a teeny thing in the long run, right? Can’t cause permanent mental or physical scars, just… one of those things.

Magpie
Magpie
8 years ago

Simon, I read your bolded sentence, and your objection to it. Are you saying you would rather be seen as a rapist than be seen as capable of entering caring and emotion-based relationships?

mythago
8 years ago

As for Schrodinger’s rapist, I repeat… statistics show that in 85% of rape cases the victim knew the attacker

FFS. Is there something about being an MRA that makes you forget how statistics work? This is like saying “Since less than a dozen people per year are killed by sharks, my chances of dying from a shark attack are miniscule. Therefore, if I go swimming in waters full of aggressive sharks at a time when there are fishing boats throwing chum in the water, I am perfectly safe.”

85% says nothing about how to evaluate the behavior of a particular man. It says nothing about recognizing predator behavior in humans and appropriately using it to measure a potential threat. The real reason MRAs hate it is not that it is inaccurate; they hate it because it suggests that ‘act however the fuck you want’ is not an optimal mating strategy.

magdelyn
8 years ago

i don’t know…i act like i want, but i have mated (and even have the kid to prove it.)

Pam
Pam
8 years ago

nugganu: We aren’t the one’s writing the posts being mocked, so the obsession seems to be with the MRA types.

As to your fantasies… well if it works for you, go to town, but change the sheets before dates.

Ah, but changing the sheets before dates wouldn’t fit well into his repertoire of awesome revenge tactics.
‘Ha, I got her to give me PIV, unknowingly on the same sheets where I’d jacked off, shortly before, to imaginary pics of Futrelle hogtied on a picnic bench getting it from a gang of bull-dykes with strap-ons.’

NullPointer
NullPointer
8 years ago

nugganu, I think you can do better than that. That sexual fantasy was just not shocking or disgusting at all. Protip: sex acts involving poop, vomit, or animals are more likely to be considered disgusting, especially if you’re trying to shock hardened internet veterans. Regular old anal sex and bondage just won’t cut it.

blitzgal
8 years ago

Let’s revisit this. Between this thread and the most recent one about Slutwalks, Hengist wants to simultaneously argue that a) women are responsible for doing whatever necessary to avoid being raped and b) women who are wary of strange men are misandrist oppressors.

Pecunium
8 years ago

blitzgal: Thats because, from the evidence, Hengist does have a coherent position: women are to blame for things which happen to women.

Once that becomes plain, then the rest follows. No, it isn’t consistent, if you think that men might have agency. But they don’t. The underlying theme in this is, “women cause rape”. If she doesn’t do the perfect thing, then some man will rape her. That men are so different as to make it impossible to do the,”right things” to avoid any man ever being driven to it, is her problem, because it’s not the rapists fault, not really.

We blame him, if we decide it was a “real rape”, but she could have died her hair, bound her breasts, not worn Doc Marten’s, chosen a longer skirt, worn tight jeans, bought a protective coloration wedding ring, avoided the medical library’s more distant stacks, etc., since men have been known to commit rapes in those places, “because” of those stimuli, and she could have adjusted her behavior, so she has to bear responsibility, QED.

So, once you accept that women cause rape, and accept it, then you see the underlying consistency.

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