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antifeminism idiocy MRA violence against men/women

Feminism or death?

Here’s the entirety of a recent post by an MRA who calls himself Snark:

Uh, dude, I think you’ve confused “feminists” with “Daleks.”

Our new friend Fidelbogen thought this was such a brilliant idea he devoted a post to it himself, declaring:

Such economy, such concision. …

Really now, we wouldn’t go far wrong to make our rhetoric revolve around this above all, and very little more. The saying is deceptively simple, for it goes deep and reaches into many corners.

It puts them on the spot, and nails them there.

I knew Fidelbogen was a bit of a pompous doofus, but this is a whole new level of stupidity for him. I don’t even know what to say about something this idiotic.

Also, check out the comments to Snark’s piece. There’s something about potatoes you kind of have to see to believe.

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KathleenB
KathleenB
13 years ago

And, yeah, TS, that was an insult. You are a dumbfuck. Wear the badge with pride.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
13 years ago

Your skills are fading with age, Bagelsan.

If you strike down my brain cells, they will only grow stronger than you can imagine!

KathleenB
KathleenB
13 years ago

Dumbfucks anonymous meeting is right down the hall – all the hottest trolls will be there.

Toysoldier
13 years ago

I can think of better ways to spend my time than aiding and abetting his persecution complex.

Next time someone violates my body I will remember to enjoy it and keep my mouth shut.

Rutee Katreya
13 years ago

Oh, is it random music time rather than troll feeding time? I can do that.

KathleenB
KathleenB
13 years ago

OFFS, TS, you know fucking well what I’m talking about. This pretend ignorance isn’t fooling anyone – I’m referring to your constant ‘the feminzais hurt my fee-fees and won’t indulge my victimhood by allowing me to be lying asshole’ refrain.

katz
13 years ago

I’m in!

Toysoldier
13 years ago

If you strike down my brain cells, they will only grow stronger than you can imagine!

Your anger and your lust for power have already done that. You have allowed this ideology to twist your mind until now…until now you have become the very thing you swore to destroy.

hellkell
hellkell
13 years ago

Your anger and your lust for power have already done that. You have allowed this ideology to twist your mind until now…until now you have become the very thing you swore to destroy.

What, your dialog is coming from Michael Bay movies now? Jesus, you are stupid.

Toysoldier
13 years ago

KathleenB, as you pointed out before, I could never know why any feminist does what they do. But you can just:

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DksSPZTZES0]

CassandraSays
13 years ago

Um, Bagelsan, is there some sort of history between you and Toy Soldier that I’m unaware of that would explain the sharp turn into exerpts from the plot of a bad wu shu movie that he just took there?

Meanwhile, if we’re playing random song generator, here’s one for all the MRAs (affectionately known as “the fuck you song”).

KathleenB
KathleenB
13 years ago

TS: W00t! Random videos! I was actually at this concert – might have been right behind the person holding the camera.

KathleenB
KathleenB
13 years ago

Actually, this one is a bit more apropos:

KathleenB
KathleenB
13 years ago

I’m not doing this Charelston again, TS. You are a lying asshole who wouldn’t know the truth if it bit your bicep. But, by all means, keep it up. I’m sure there are a couple of people left here who think you’re some kind of stand up guy. Shouldn’t take more than a couple of posts to change their minds, too.

Shora
13 years ago

Wow, I can’t believe you guys are still going. I’m impressed. Might as well jump into the fray.

I haven’t been fallowing along closely, so forgive me if I say things that have already been said, but I have a few comments.

There is a certain type of person who will twist everything around them to justify their actions, like a highschooler who blames everyone but themselves for their problems.

Ideologies have the power to change how people think. That is what feminism has done for me; It has made me more firm in setting boundaries, and more sensitive to other people who have different backgrounds and therefore different problems then me. It has made me more likely to respect someone else’s boundaries, and less likely to make sweeping, offensive generalizations and insensitive remarks. Because of feminism, I will never deny, belittle or reduce someone else’s lived experience (at least, not on purpose. I do fuck up sometimes.)

There are good ideologies and bad ones. There are ideologies that preach tolerance, acceptance, and levelheadedness. There are ideologies that preach violence and revenge and pettiness.

Feminism does not preach violence. There are not prominent or popular feminist sites that call for rising up against men, there are not prominent or popular feminist sites that cheer at the event of violence against men or any other opponents of feminism.

Feminism does preach equality. Feminism (for the most part, there are exceptions) acknowledges how the current system hurts men. Feminism works to remove those barriers.

Feminism is not perfect, because feminism is made up of people, and people are not perfect. There are feminists who are transphobic, there are feminists who are rape apologists (hii Naomi Wolfe!), there are feminists who belittle men and belittle the very real difficulties that men have to go through. This does not mean that feminism preaches transphobia, rape apologism, or misandry. This means that people suck sometimes.

The MRM for the most part is hateful. The most popular sites glorify violence, manipulation, gender essentialism, sexism, and the oppression of women. For proof, one need only look on this site, or venture to reddit, the spearhead, or the average PUA site.

When we say that the MRM can lead to violence and inspire violent behavior in people, it is because that is what the vast majority of the MRM talks about, preaches, discusses, jacks off too, whatever. If you have proof of otherwise, please, show me.

When we tell you that feminism is not what made your aunt a shitty person, it is because that very shittineess is some of the very basic feminist ideals of what not to do. Seek consent, respect others bodies, do not abuse; these things form the very foundation of feminism.

Feminism did not make your aunt a shitty abusive person. Your aunt was already a shitty abusive person and she twisted and perverted feminism in order to justify her actions and avoid cognitive dissonance.

katz
13 years ago

Here’s one for you, TS.

Here’s another one for you.

Hershele Ostropoler
13 years ago

Toysoldier:

I never said feminism encourages or accepts abuse, or that my aunt’s actions prove anything.

I love how you posted that right under Bagelsan quoting you doing exactly that.

Ok, so your latest claim is that we’ve denied that you were abused:

I apparently so hate feminists that I would lie about my experiences, lie about my aunt, lie about my aunt’s behavior

So who denied that you were abused, saying that you lied about your aunt’s behavior in abusing you? Feel free to post quotes.

Pecunium
13 years ago

Toysoldier: You asked her to do the impossible, to prove that feminism can’t cause x,y,z.

Based on past performance, I have no reason to think you did this without an agenda. You are single-minded, remorseless and willing to stop at nothing in the pursuit of your aims.

If that means being less than honest, setting up “logic traps”, strawmen, derailing through accusations of ad hominem, or conflating one insult with dismissal of personal history, you won’t scruple to do it.

You are willing to outright lie about what you’ve said, so nothing much you do say can be taken at face value, which is why I (barring the odd occasion like this) don’t bother with replying to you anymore.

Flib
Flib
13 years ago

Toysoldier: You never engaged legitimately in the first place. As I said, return to your den of hate.

Snowy
Snowy
13 years ago

Okay Toysoldier, is this what you’re talking about?

Moewicus: Do not play semantics, and do not change the subject. We are not talking about excesses, but whether an ideology causes a person to behave differently than they would have had they not be exposed to those ideas. Feminists put themselves in a double bind by claiming that a gender-based ideology analogous to feminism can cause violence, while claiming that feminism itself cannot. I do agree, however, that feminist thinking is messed up, which is partially why I am not a feminist.

Futrelle: As I noted before, that two parties share similar views does not mean one caused or influenced the other. Likewise, that an individual member of a group agrees with another person’s views does not mean that member’s entire group shares those views.

darksidecat: I had hoped no one would break Godwin’s Law, but since you did, switch out Hilter with Germans and vegetarianism with Nazism. Do you honestly believe Nazism in no way caused Germans to be violent against Jews? I never stated that Pecunium made that argument, only that the argument was made. However, your misunderstanding highlights the problem: instead of addressing my actual comments, feminists resort to straw man arguments.

Pecunium: As I noted before, an ideology need only present a group in a negative light to prompt some of its members to lash out violently against the hated group. Feminism is not immune to this. Quoting from one person’s website is not the same as belonging to that person’s group. Feminists are all too fond of calling anyone who disagrees with them MRAs, by virtue of such disagreement. I, at least, distinguish between those who actually belong to a group and those who do not.

Bostonian: It is pretty easy to find examples of feminists refusing to help male victims.

Rutee Katreya: Actually, when feminists say men’s activism leads to violence they attempt to link some man’s random violence to the men’s movement by claiming the two share similar views. That is a classic association fallacy. If my presence on an online forum bothers you, I can only imagine how much worse it is for you when you look in the mirror and actually see an asshole.

Kollege Messerschmitt: I would appreciate if you stopped arguing against those straw MRAs, stopped misrepresenting my comments, and start addressing the things I actually wrote. Bagelsan wrote, “Feminism is absolutely about treating people of all sexes and genders with respect, bodily autonomy and humanity — if you do not believe in these very core criteria then you are not a feminist.” In other words, feminists cannot commit abuse. I will keep your personal opinions of me with my aunt’s and those of other full-of-shit assholes.

Yeah, the fact that you used the word “ideology” doesn’t actually mean you answered my questions. Sorry! Still your turn! I suspect it will continue to be your turn for kind of a while, if your last comments are anything to go by. So I’m going to stop feeding you, hope you retreat back under your bridge, and end with a youtube video about dicks!

Pecunium
13 years ago

Music:

Snowy
Snowy
13 years ago

Oh wait, sorry Toysoldier somehow I missed that you’re a Justin Timberlake fan, maybe this song is more your speed.

CassandraSays
13 years ago

I’m still laughing at TSs attempt at performing an oh snap via Timberlake. That was special.

Toysoldier
13 years ago

Shora,

Any ideology can change how people think, for better or worse, regardless of the ideology’s positions on an issue. Often times views that treat one group as the cause of the adherents’ problem lead to bias, fear, and violence. It is not an issue of feminism being perfect, but that feminism contains views that can easily influence someone to hate another group, sometimes to the point of wanting to hurt them. It is difficult for feminists to claim their ideology does not do this when you can easily find examples of the “women as perpetual victim” thinking prompts misandry.

The only difference the feminist movement and the men’s rights movement is their age. If you look at feminism back in the early 1980s, the same anger and frustration one sees in the men’s movement was present in the feminist movement. Over the years feminists reforged that anger from a blunt tool to a sharp blade, but one need only visit popular feminists blogs to see the misandry-fueled anger that drives the movement.

The curious thing about feminists’ claims that the men’s movement causes or inspires violence is that they have no examples of it ever doing so. In contrast, there are plenty examples of feminist policies that discriminate against men, that ignore or deny male victimization, that result in men facing harsher punishments than women, views that result support services refusing to help male victims, opinions that treat male boundaries as pathological, and feminists who regard violence against males as less important and less harmful than violence against women.

It is an odd way for feminists to try to discredit another movement. In a way, it is similar to how the right discredits the Occupy Wall Street crowd. The OWLS are no different than the Tea Party, just less organized and more focused on the business sector rather than the federal government. Yet the right treats the OWLS as pariah and hateful, crazy people with no legitimate complaints.

When feminists tell me feminism did not influence my aunt’s behavior, I think it is because feminists do not believe feminism or feminists can ever do anything harmful or wrong. That is a classic no true scotsman, and while I understand no one wants to be associated with a person who does a bad thing, it is kind of silly to claim one’s ideology had no part in shaping the views and behaviors of the bad members of your group.

Hershele Ostropoler
13 years ago

Snowy, I think his “answer” is that someone once failed to unequivocably (or, to be fair, at all) condemn Mary Kay Letourneau. That the someone in question wasn’t a feminist may be lost on him, but whatever.

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