Here’s the entirety of a recent post by an MRA who calls himself Snark:
Uh, dude, I think you’ve confused “feminists” with “Daleks.”
Our new friend Fidelbogen thought this was such a brilliant idea he devoted a post to it himself, declaring:
Such economy, such concision. …
Really now, we wouldn’t go far wrong to make our rhetoric revolve around this above all, and very little more. The saying is deceptively simple, for it goes deep and reaches into many corners.
It puts them on the spot, and nails them there.
I knew Fidelbogen was a bit of a pompous doofus, but this is a whole new level of stupidity for him. I don’t even know what to say about something this idiotic.
Also, check out the comments to Snark’s piece. There’s something about potatoes you kind of have to see to believe.
“It’s the heart of the trick statement.”
The trick being to make us admit that women commit abuse? *pages Dead Horse*
Please show me where I said that. Seriously. Feminists are human, and humans are crap sometimes. Feminism as a whole is against abuse, but so are most human societies. There are still feminists and humans who abuse, but I think that’s a flaw in humanity, not feminism.
Rutee:
“Oh, I know this one, because you’re Revspin: You didn’t actually look it up, you just asserted your claims again”
In all good faith I tried to look it up but the term was first presented as “cisdude,” That’s what I looked up and found dubious definitions.
By the way, have YOU actually looked up neonaticide yet? You can “assert your claim” to those statistics any time you’re ready.
I would correct that to: “Other than
the evil “patriarchy”society, which holdsmenall parents financially responsible for their children, and the biological fact that some women nurse infants, I really see little difference.So in short, other than the gendered constructs carefully pasted on top of parenting by, yes, the “evil” patriarchy, “mothering” and “fathering” don’t really have to be all that different. Parents of any sex or gender can feed and clothe and love and nurture and discipline and support their children; there isn’t any reason mom has to be the one kissing bruises or dad has to teach how to throw a ball.
Okay, Rev, fucking seriously. There is no possible way you ran a google search for cisgender and came up with a result that said gay. Every single result on the first page (with the exception of the urban dictionary) gives a brief definition. The first result is a wiki article which goes into actual depth.
Or at least not a ‘gay’ result on the first page. All you have to do is plug the word into wiki, it’s right there.
http://carnalnation.com/content/49458/1067/word-day-cis
First result on google for “cisdude”. Be a less transparent liar.
No, DSC did it for me. Your statistics are wrong, your understanding of the data poor. That zie’s bored with you now changes nothing. You have never engaged honestly with the evidence. I’m not going to jump now.
Please relink your source for that? Is it the CDC? WHO? And if that is true, are we honestly astonished that American women have a higher rate of neonaticide than women in countries with better pregnancy/childbirth/infant care resources, and more access to birth control including abortion? Because I’m somewhere in the area of zero percent surprised that that’s the case. (Also, are you counting among those murderous women the children who give birth and whose babies die? Because that’s …stupid.)
@KathleenB:
“Okay, Rev, fucking seriously. There is no possible way you ran a google search for cisgender and came up with a result that said gay.”
Never said “gay,” I said metrosexual. That after searching “cisdude.”
Bagelson:
“Also, are you counting among those murderous women the children who give birth and whose babies die?”
No that’s infant mortality, a completely different thing. The stats I am refering to are on the Wikipedia page defining neonaticide. Their sourses looked very reputable to me.
Rev: Erm… yeah, you actually did. When it was first mentioned, you said it sounded like a homophobic slur. you know, you can get a plugin for most browsers that will run a search on a highlighted word – makes research and looking up definitions a snap.
Toysoldier: No, you just refused to look at what I said. It’s not the Glenn Beck route. Note how you still have never provided anything empirical in your statements? Yeah, sorry bro, your comparisons don’t work. Still waiting by the way for you to find a way that the Patriarchy isn’t a dominant structure. You are still comparing the wrong things, and taking advantage of the generality of the term universal to compare against the specificity of the system here. Pro-tip, of or pertaining to a system is actually not the same definition of universal, you want to be comparing system and universal, but hey, you are bad with language, and you are just continuing to prove it.
You are a liar and you don’t care about the people you claim you do. Your little comment to Dead Horse there shows that you only care about hating feminism and, funny enough, shows how you do exactly everything you claim feminism does. Your constant targeting of women as only abusers further demonstrates this.
Bagelsan:
“Parents of any sex or gender can feed and clothe and love and nurture and discipline and support their children; there isn’t any reason mom has to be the one kissing bruises or dad has to teach how to throw a ball.”
I agree 100%. I meant “evil of the patriarchy” facetiously. I certainly wouldn’t argue the “evil of feminism” or make reference to “feminazis” either.
You paged, Molly? Uh oh, ahhhh!!! Nooooooo RevSpinnaker nuuuuuu!!! Ohhhhh what did I ever do to deserve this beating!! ARRGGGLLgggaaaahhhhh… ehhhh…
Rev: Yes, I agree, both constructed roles of fatherhood and motherhood can be fulfilled by opposite genders. In fact, I too would prefer parenting to be gender neutral, and we have examples of this attempted in action. But the question comes down to; As a massive scale of things, is this the case of what is happening? Is house labor divided? Is Bread-winning more emphasized for one gender, thus hurting further parental interaction? Why do we make distinct gender differences in time off for children? These are but a few of the factors that can be causal mechanisms and evidence for why there is gender distinct parenting. This http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-0432.2005.00267.x/pdf discusses some of the issues for instance. I beg of you, please do not fall into the trap of seeking to blame Feminism and Feminism only for creating these current discourses. I mentioned earlier to explore the field of Sociology of Childhood to better educate yourself, here is a short bibliography of all sorts of sources that could be beneficial for you. http://wfnetwork.bc.edu/berkeley/contribution/Cultures.html
Now this is some primo word salad. What the hell?
“What proof is there that feminism cannot cause fear, hatred, discrimination, or violence?
This, BTW, is the entire point of his little charade with the question about ideology. He wants an answer that says, “ideologies” can cause “x”. Then he will say feminism is an ideology, and so we have admitted it causes fear and hatred, and so feminism is to blame for what his aunt did.”
Yeah, that much has been obvious for a while. It was funny how he doesn’t seem to realize how obvious it is what he’s trying to do. For someone so manipulative he’s really not very good at it. There’s also the possibility that his response was meant to be a joke and he’s the world’s worst comedian, though.
Also – Borg, not Dalek. We lure in and assimilate people and what one of us believes all of us believe, right? Clearly we can’t be Daleks, as we are able to climb stairs.
On the neonaticide issue…OK, so let’s for the sake of argument agree that 45% of newborns murdered are murdered by women (this stat may or may not be correct, I can’t say I’ve ever done any research). This means that the remaining 55% of newborns murdered are murdered by men. This is a damning indictment of mothers and mothers alone in what way?
Pecunium: Actually, I asked Snowy what evidence supports her position, which is a fair request. It is not a charade; it is logic, and Feminists already agree with the logic. They apply it to men’s activism. I am simply pointing out the contradiction of feminists not applying it to themselves. However, I do enjoy the irony of feminists’ responses. Several months ago feminists claimed that because Anders Behring Breivik and the men’s rights movement share similar views regarding feminism, that men’s activists should be concerned, implying that men’s activism can cause to become violent. Yet when presented with an example of a feminist who committed violence, feminists not only reject the notion that someone who shares their views and is a member of their group would commit violence, they claim there is no connection between feminism and feminists’ views and behaviors.
Snowy: I answered your question way back on page four. Your turn.
Dead Horse: That is because feminists think you are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite their sincerest efforts they have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of ideological precision. Some of them really do believe they live in the Matrix.
Bagelsan: That is right, I forgot that feminists cannot take a joke.
KathleenB: Please show me where I said correlation is causation. You cannot have it both ways. If the flaw lies in humanity, then feminists cannot blame “patriarchy” for anything.
Flib: Why would I try to disprove your straw man argument? And now you accuse me of taking “advantage” of the meaning of a word by using it as it is defined? You are correct. The Glenn Beck analogy was off. Even he does not make these kinds of leaps in logic. You seem to take my discussion of female abusers personally. Is there a reason for this?
Meh, I need coffee so that last comment didn’t come out too clearly. What I’m saying is, even if we accept as fact the most damning statistic about women and the abuse of children that Rev is able to come up with, we’re still left with a scenario in which women are not the numerical majority of those hurting children, even though women are the numerical majority of those providing childcare.
Any time a child is hurt it’s a bad thing, but the stats still don’t say what Rev wants them to say. And I’m not quite sure why he continues to try to make his point in a way that indicates that he thinks we are asserting that no women ever hurt children at all, since nobody has said that. It’s extra hilarious that he thinks that feminists as a group would be really opposed to a loosening of strict gender roles in parenting.
TS: Dude, your whole spiel boils down to ‘feminism made my aunt abuse me.’ Yes, the two correlate: You aunt was a feminist and she did abuse you. But you have no way of knowing if one caused the other. You have correlation, but no causation, and have no way to prove causation. And yet you keep claiming that feminism did it.
And since I’ve danced this Charleston a few too many times, I’m bowing out. You go right on believing whatever the fuck you want. But please try, for a bare second, to consider that you might be wrong.
Nope, you didn’t. I checked. Still your turn.
Oh, and I’m a man btw. There’s quite a few of us non-woman around here, you might want to be think for a few seconds before you make assumptions about people’s gender just because they happen to be feminists. I know thinking isn’t really your strong suit, but hey.
If I were so intent on blaming feminism, why have I not done it yet? Does it not strike you as odd that I apparently so hate feminists that I would lie about my experiences, lie about my aunt, lie about my aunt’s behavior, lie about feminism, and yet never once on this thread, on any other feminist site, on any men’s rights blog, on any feminist critical blog, or on my own blog blame feminism for anything? Would that not suggest that I — wait for it — do not blame feminism for anything?
Toysoldier, what are you trying to do? As far as I can tell, you’ve never made a clear statement of your own purpose or argument here, only pour forth insinuations and try to respond to other commenters.
What do you think about feminism? About the MRM? About the notion of privilege? Clearly you have strong enough opinions to disagree with everyone, but I don’t know what you do actually think. Maybe that would clear a lot up.
Snowy: Yes I did. I know intellectual honesty is not your strong suit, but hey. Now answer my questions.
KathleenB: I never said that being a feminist caused my aunt to act as she did. I said that feminism — a set of views — caused her to behave as she did. Unless you are arguing that what a person thinks has no affect on the person’s behavior, there is no fallacy.
The Semicolon Policeman: I was unaware that saying that I would much rather someone make a violent comment in jest than actually commit violence against me was not a clear argument. I already stated that I do not hold feminism or the men’s rights movement in high regards, and explained my position on privilege on my blog.