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antifeminism idiocy MRA violence against men/women

Feminism or death?

Here’s the entirety of a recent post by an MRA who calls himself Snark:

Uh, dude, I think you’ve confused “feminists” with “Daleks.”

Our new friend Fidelbogen thought this was such a brilliant idea he devoted a post to it himself, declaring:

Such economy, such concision. …

Really now, we wouldn’t go far wrong to make our rhetoric revolve around this above all, and very little more. The saying is deceptively simple, for it goes deep and reaches into many corners.

It puts them on the spot, and nails them there.

I knew Fidelbogen was a bit of a pompous doofus, but this is a whole new level of stupidity for him. I don’t even know what to say about something this idiotic.

Also, check out the comments to Snark’s piece. There’s something about potatoes you kind of have to see to believe.

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KathleenB
KathleenB
13 years ago

CassandraSays: I’ll keep that in mind. And I’m sure MrB will be overjoyed to know that I’m contributing to the oppression and persecution of men by pointing out asshole behavior.

Flib
Flib
13 years ago

Toysoldier: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2095160,
http://www.soc.washington.edu/users/brines/risman.pdf
http://asr.sagepub.com/content/75/6/894.full
http://www.jstor.org/stable/2578353
http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/sp.2002.49.2.258
http://www.jstor.org/stable/4120769

Right, you don’t read sources and what cites what. I got it, you are terrible with information flow and dealing with concepts. No need to dig your hole deeper. I’ll note, you still haven’t addressed your failures, and logic inconsistency. There are multiple levels of intersectionality. What you claim as universals are describing systemic problems. Again, it’s not a universal. Again, we see cases where male privilege isn’t entirely a benefit. This is what it is an example of. Where is your case for all of feminism? Still don’t see it. Your assertions are still not supported by anything but the bullshit that comes from your mouth. You are still up at bat here, padawan, start swinging or you will never get to first base.

CassandraSays
13 years ago

What, you’re allowing Mr B to have opinions of his own? Really now, if you keep this up the entire foundation of Toy Soldier’s universe may crumble.

mythago
13 years ago

Wait, I’m pretty sure Hershele is a pro-feminist masculist but isn’t actually a feminist. Did you guys make him an Honorary Mangina when I stepped out or what?

RevSpinnaker
13 years ago

Holly P.:

“If women train men, then how come you aren’t trained?”

But I am. My mother did train me, by instilling fear on many levels. After the way she used me to hurt my father I have a deeply ingrained fear of intimacy with women. My dictionary’s definition of misogyny is hatred, dislike or mistrust of women. Maternal mistrust has made me into a misogamist. Not that I hate marriage, I just fear it.

“How come tons of men hate or do horrible things to women?”

There are a lot worse mothers than mine out there. Look at Demond Reed’s aunt. It’s all in the “training.”

That’s why I asked earlier. What’s the feminist strategy to “untrain” boys like Demond’s cousins, who were taught murderous sadistic behavior by a woman.

If you want to stop violence against “WOMEN & GIRLS” I suggest you start there.

mythago
13 years ago

There are a lot worse mothers than mine out there. Look at Demond Reed’s aunt. It’s all in the “training.”

Yes, all men who do horrible things to women were trained to do that by women, and “untraining” them is women’s job, so if they aren’t “untrained” women have nobody to blame but themselves!

KathleenB
KathleenB
13 years ago

Cassandra: Sometimes, I let him pick the movie we watch! And get his opinion on what we should have for dinner!

RevSpinnaker
13 years ago

KathleenB:

“How is cisgender a slur?”

The term was “cis dude” which sounds to me like a gender stereotype of effeminate man.

mythago
13 years ago

The term was “cis dude” which sounds to me like a gender stereotype of effeminate man.

How, short of drinking a lot of tequila, do you possibly get that interpretation?

VoiP
VoiP
13 years ago

The term was “cis dude” which sounds to me like a gender stereotype of effeminate man.

@_@
Ha.
Ha.
Hahahahaaaaaahahaha
It means a man who was born with a male body, you dumbfuck.

CassandraSays
13 years ago

What? I thought she said SITH dudes, which would indeed be an insult.

(I’m trying to imagine what it’s like to live in David’s brain.)

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
13 years ago

The term was “cis dude” which sounds to me like a gender stereotype of effeminate man.

That would be you, not bothering to check your facts before acting as if what you *think* actually *is* — and, as usual, being wrong.

red_locker
13 years ago

My brain hurts. Seriously. Toysolider’s misrepresentation and strawmanning is one thing (even though it is getting painfully repetitive), but Rev is…just…

Rev, dude, what are trying to prove? Why are you here? What do you want? What is your mission?

That’s probably too many questions, but goddamn, Rev.

CassandraSays
13 years ago

Maybe the headache is the mission? We shall bring down the matriarchy by giving them all migraines and then hiding the ibuprofen.

red_locker
13 years ago

“Maybe the headache is the mission?”

Then Mission fucking Accomplished.

Toysoldier
13 years ago

Hershele Ostropoler:  Surprise: “His brand of crazy is at least somewhat understandable as a result of trauma, though (lifelong paranoia about feminists caused by PTSD would be my hey-I-have-a-degree-in-psychology guess).” Now quote where I said feminism condones, endorsed, or supports abuse.

KathleenB: Insulting someone, particularly someone who has done nothing to you, seems an indecent thing to do, no?

CassandraSays: Apparently witty retorts are not one of your strong points, either.

KathleenB
KathleenB
13 years ago

Rev. Maybe you could look a term up before you make snap judgments?

KathleenB
KathleenB
13 years ago

Insulting? I told you that you’re acting like an asshole. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

katz
13 years ago

The term was “cis dude” which sounds to me like a gender stereotype of effeminate man.

I too have my howlingly ignorant moments now and then, but I try not to broadcast them to the world unless absolutely necessary.

CassandraSays
13 years ago

I am truly crushed to discover that Toy Soldier doesn’t find me witty. How will I ever live with this terrible knowledge?

Hershele Ostropoler
13 years ago

mythago:

Wait, I’m pretty sure Hershele is a pro-feminist masculist but isn’t actually a feminist. Did you guys make him an Honorary Mangina when I stepped out or what?

My recollection is that Hershele is either a feminist ally or a feminist, depending on which term you prefer to apply to someone who believes in his heart but limits his “activism” to snarky pro-feminist comments on feminist blogs and doesn’t claim to be Jessica Valenti. But, um, what do I know? 😉

To the extent, of course, that self-identification matters; if you don’t feel I qualify as a feminist I can’t force you to believe otherwise whatever I call myself.

@Toy Soldier: Not the same as “ha ha, he says he was abused, how can you listen to anything he says?” Not the same as mocking you for saying you were abused, or discrediting you on the basis of being a victim.

But, fine:

I never said my aunt is like a feminist; I said that she is a feminist. Her views are feminist views. The only difference between her and other feminists is what she did.

<a href="http://manboobz.com/2011/09/22/feminism-or-death/comment-page-3/#comment-63395"absolving feminism of any responsibility for my aunt’s behavior, despite that feminism prompted her actions.

My contention is only that feminism caused my aunt’s thinking, which then led to her actions.

it is easy to show that feminism does lead some feminists to discriminate against, fear, hate, and even harm boys and men.

After that ytou started denying you’d said any of that and so couldn’t repeat it. I think Cassandra is right that being disagreed with is triggering for you, in which case you … may want to work on that before spending time on the internet outside of carefully circumscribed areas

Hershele Ostropoler
13 years ago

Dammit, HTML

mythago
13 years ago

To the extent, of course, that self-identification matters; if you don’t feel I qualify as a feminist I can’t force you to believe otherwise whatever I call myself.

No, no. I just vaguely recollected that you had said you were pro-feminist but did not identify as feminist, but I could be misremembering. We can still make you an Honorary Mangina though!

Toysoldier
13 years ago

Hershele Ostropoler: I stated, “Now, believing me does not get feminists out of being told that they are misrepresenting my positions, being called out for questioning my understanding and recounting of my experiences, or being called out for using my experiences to insult and mock me to discredit my positions.” I said nothing about feminists mocking me for being a victim.  Mockery includes derision, and that accurately describes Cassandra’s attempt to use my experiences to discredit me. In none of the comments you linked to did I state that feminism condones, supports, or endorses abuse, and in none of my comments did I deny that I stated that feminism can cause people to become violent. While I am rather impressed that you would misrepresent my comments as you quote them, I am again saddened by the intellectual dishonesty, although unsurprised by your ironic attempt to discredit my complaint by using my experiences.

Look, here is your problem: not only are you trying to prove a negative, you are also trying to prove an absolute negative. But not only is there evidence demonstrating that feminism can cause discrimination, fear, hate, and even harm against males, feminists already contend that feminism can and does change people’s behavior. Feminists argue that feminism can cause people to treat women better. If it can cause positive changes, then it is possible for feminism to cause negative changes as well.

I understand that it frustrates you that someone does not value feminism as you do. I understand that it frustrates you that someone criticizes something you value. I understand that it frustrates you that someone can support their criticism of feminism. And I understand that this frustration leads to the kind of dishonest, classless tactics many of you used. I do not take it personally, even when you try to make it personal. However, I do find it ironic that feminists engaged in very behaviors you accuse men’s activists of engaging in. The men’s rights movement mimics the feminist movement. What feminists see in men’s activists is simply a reflection of themselves.

xtra
13 years ago

Toysoilder, do you believe that if your aunt had not been a feminist she would not have been abusive? Why or why not?

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