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Cosmetics: An evil plot to fool the men of the world into thinking that ladies are pretty

Evil female deceiver at work

Ladies! You may think you’ve got the men of the world fooled, but the guys over on MGTOWforums.com can see right through you! As dontmarry puts it:

Everything that a woman does is deceitful. From makeup, push-up bras and high heels, to fibbing about her dick count or proclamations of ‘I don’t mind marrying a poor man’ (oh yes you do).

That’s right, ladies! We know those eyelashes aren’t real! We know your cheeks aren’t really that rosy! And your lips aren’t really that red! And your boobies aren’t really … um, what was I saying? I got distracted thinking about boobies. Anyway, you’re all a bunch of liars! I bet some of you even wear Spanx, which are a tool of Satan.

Also, that thing he said about the dick count. Stop the lies! We demand dick count accuracy!

 

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Lauralot
9 years ago

Projection of what? Identifying people by their gentalia?

I’m pretty sure the women on my campus who got their asses groped by some pervert on a bike last year weren’t feminists. That didn’t stop them from reporting it. And of course, they got mocked by the majority of the campus who said they were overreacting and they should have been happy for the attention.

I never claimed that all men on campus were perverts. One of my roommates is a man, and he somehow manages to walk around without catcalling women.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

But even if it was, wouldn’t that mean that they succeeded if you get offended? Seems like the logical thing to do would be to ignore it, laugh it off or have a snappy comeback, which would make them look the idiots. I remember a saying “nobody can make you feel like a victim without your consent”.

So remember my fellow over-reacting, overly sensitive, wacko-leftist feminists: if someone offends you, you should just pretend that you’re not offended. Spend time at night creating a list of witty “come-backs” in your journal before you go to bed. That way, while going about the day-to-day routine of living your life and being out in public and stuff- you’ll always be prepared for whatever some guy trying to assert his dominance has to offer. And remember, that dude’s not trying to offend you or anything. He just yelled “I want to lick that pussy,” at you so he could bond with his male friends and feel important. It has nothing to do with you.

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

I dunno, if his aim was to make the gang here froth itself up into a frenzy, then congratulate each other over their “pwnage” of him like it’s srs bzns, I’d say he succeeded pretty well.

I’m all frothy now like Santorum. Ergo NWO wins!
DISCLAIMER: No, actually I’m not.

It’s like when you didn’t get invited to that party in middle school and you tried to convince yourself that you were having way more fun at home by yourself.

Projection Over-Ruled. You MGTOW don’t seem to understand what it actually means to GYOW. I’m perfectly happy doing my own thing.
DISCLAIMER: Actually, most people are.

If you’re a feminist, you just raise a ruckus and get the government to MAKE the host invite you to the party or be penalized otherwise.

Man, I’m so glad we got Single Payer Healthcare! Because all we did was raise a ruckus. Thus we MUST have paternaty leave for fathers, extended unemployment, free national daycare, expanded WIC, equal pay, equal hiring and promotions, and end to rape and sexual assualt and all those other things we feminists have been raising a ruckus about.
QE-FUCKIN’-D!!!

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Nobinayamu: It looks like my, “what if” was spot on.

All things considered, Pecunium, it didn’t take long for him to drop that “pretense of reason” cloak at all. So predictable.

So why is it that feminist women only notice these kinds of dudes? There are an awful lot of dudes walking around on campus who don’t behave or think this way. Seems to me that there’s an awful lot of projection going on.

Chuckeedee, in this context your use of the word “projection” is incorrect. And noticing men who are street harassers does not mean that a woman exclusively notices street harassers. Do you understand?

Having said that, when was the last time you had a conversation with a nonfeminist woman about how she feels about street harassment?

Shora
9 years ago

So why is it that feminist women people only notice these kinds of dudes? There are an awful lot of dudes walking around on campus who don’t behave or think this way.

FTFY

To answer your question: Is it really so surprising someone would notice the douchebag yelling pussy at them more then the dude on the bus with earbuds in minding his own damn business? Is it a bad thing that someone would not notice the person not actively vying for attention in the most asshole way possible? What precisely is the point of this comment? Well duh, I’m gonna notice the screaming jackass before the quiet guy with the book.

Unless you’re insinuating that us craaaaaazy feminists think ALL guys ALL the time harass women. Which is…. really not the case. 90% of men, women, people, whatever are just going about thier business and not bothering anyone. The 10% can actually kind of ruin your day.

Seems to me that there’s an awful lot of projection going on.

Uhm. Where?

Hengist
Hengist
9 years ago

thebionicmommy: That’s physical harassment, and I’d have reacted the same way as your husband.

He just yelled “I want to lick that pussy,” at you so he could bond with his male friends and feel important. It has nothing to do with you.

Well… yeah, basically.

chuckeedee
chuckeedee
9 years ago

And noticing men who are street harassers does not mean that a woman exclusively notices street harassers.

Yes it does. Women notice “types” of men, and the types of men that they prioritize establishes the types of women that they are. Get it? No, of course you don’t.

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

The problem with the “just ignore it” school of thought is that harassment often carries the implicit threat of violence. A woman who is being harassed doesn’t know if the harassment will escalate into something worse–which is, of course, a reasonable inference when some is harassing you.

Hengist
Hengist
9 years ago

All things considered, Pecunium, it didn’t take long for him to drop that “pretense of reason” cloak at all. So predictable.

So I kept kicking this dog and poking it with a stick, until it bit me! I knew the “friendly dog” thing was just a pretense all along!

Shora
9 years ago

chuckeedee. I get it, I just think you’re wrong

Lauralot
9 years ago

So noticing the type of men who scream at me while I’m walking makes me an evil feminist, even if I have male roommates and friends and positive interactions with ninety percent of the men I come across. Of course.

Hengist
Hengist
9 years ago

Yes it does. Women notice “types” of men, and the types of men that they prioritize establishes the types of women that they are. Get it? No, of course you don’t.

Exactly. From there, it’s not hard to see how a feminist with a chip on her shoulder might imagine all men are out to harass and victimize her.

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

Hengist: Could you please demonstrate, by quotes, that anyone here imagines all men are out to harass and victimize us? Once again — quotes, please.

Shora
9 years ago

Hengist, I’m starting to think you’re ignoring me, which kind of makes me wonder why?

I know it mustn’t be because you can’t think of a reasoned reply to my previous comments/questions. That would be absurd.

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

Also, going back to what you said before: If gang-raping a woman is being used as a male-bonding ritual, does it mean it’s not rape anymore? Should the woman just not notice it?

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

Shora: He’s not noticing you, you man-hating Hitler, so as to escape being thought of as a misogynist.

Shora
9 years ago

Amused, of COURSE she should just not notice it! After all, she doesn’t want to let herself be a victim does she?

Remember ladies, if you feel victimized, it’s your own fault for letting yourself feel that way instead of just brushing it off like an annoying insect! It’s certainly not the fault of the person who harassed/assaulted you!

Shora: He’s not noticing you, you man-hating Hitler, so as to escape being thought of as a misogynist.

Well, he’s gonna have to try way harder then THAT. Like maybe not actually say misogynistic things?

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

[quote]So I kept kicking this dog and poking it with a stick, until it bit me! I knew the “friendly dog” thing was just a pretense all along![/quote]
The first thing you did here was concern and tone troll. You were never friendly. You just pretended to be reasonable. But you never responded to statistical evidence born out by studies either; you just continued to parrot your MRA claims.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Yes it does. Women notice “types” of men, and the types of men that they prioritize establishes the types of women that they are. Get it? No, of course you don’t.

Of all the idiotic, wholly unsupported, and just plain dumb things you’ve written in this thread, this has got to be way, way up there. Top three, at least. I notice when a man harasses me on the street, chuckeedee. I can’t help it.

If you come up to me and walk next to me while explaining how good you think I look and what you’d like to do to me, I’m going to notice. If you shout “I want to lick that pussy!” at me from across the street while I’m walking to work, I’m going to notice. Especially if when I ignore you, you proceed to shout “Hey! Hey! I’m talking to you!” I’m not hearing impaired. I’m going to notice.

I’m not prioritizing you. I’m noticing. It doesn’t mean that I can’t/don’t see other types of men. So what does this establish about me, other than the fact that I’m in possession of all of my senses?

Hengist
Hengist
9 years ago

Shora: Sorry, it’s hard to keep track when I get 10 replies to every post. I’d rather not go back through the whole thread again, so if you repeat your question I’ll answer it.

Hengist: Could you please demonstrate, by quotes, that anyone here imagines all men are out to harass and victimize us? Once again — quotes, please.

“On any given day I am harassed by men who believe they are entitled to my time, attention and body”

“Tell you what, Hengist, I’ll be happy to provide just a few examples from my own life as well as the lives of other women I know personally, of inequity, discrimination, sexual assault and harassment.”

That’s just from a little further up this thread.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

Hengist, yes what happened to me was physical harassment. The main threat of verbal harassment is what Captain Bathrobe mentioned, and that is the possibility that verbal harassment will escalate to physical harassment. It’s also unrealistic to expect people to have witty comebacks to street harassment. When someone is surprised by something, it is a normal response to be at a loss for words. Rather than focus on how victims of harassment should handle harassment, the focus needs to be on harassers to stop harassing.

People can’t change an entire culture single-handedly, but one person can make a difference. If you’re with a group of friends, and one yells a rude thing at another person, speak up and tell them it’s wrong. It can be hard to speak up and be the voice of reason, but once you do, you might surprised to find out everyone else agrees with you but they were too afraid to speak up first.

Lauralot
9 years ago

And where in those quotes does it say they are harassed by ALL men?

Matthew Cline
Matthew Cline
9 years ago

Yes it does. Women notice “types” of men, and the types of men that they prioritize establishes the types of women that they are.

If a person is walking somewhere, with lots of other pedestrians around, and the other pedestrians are just walking, or listening to music, talking on a cellphone, talking to a friend they’re walking with, and so on, what is there to notice?

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

“Tell you what, Hengist, I’ll be happy to provide just a few examples from my own life as well as the lives of other women I know personally, of inequity, discrimination, sexual assault and harassment.”

I said this. In what way is this statement supporting evidence. How does this indicate that I belive all(or, for that matter, even most) men are out to harass and victimize me or all women? Because I have been sexually harassed, I believe all men are out to sexually harass me? That doesn’t even make sense.

Is your reading comprehension really this poor?

Shora
9 years ago

Hengist; The fact that on any given day I am harassed by men who believe they are entitled to my time, attention, and body doesn’t actually mean that I think all men are out to harass and victimize me. In fact, I know that most men actually won’t do that ever. However, it still happens. If I were to say something like “On any given day, I flinch when men approach me because I think they might harass/assault me” your claim would have validity.

And now to refresh your memory;

Hengist. What is it precisely about your personal experience as a man that makes it a more valid interpretation of oppression and harassment against women then an actual woman talking about her actual experiences with oppression and harassment like, oh I don’t know, me?

Please keep in mind that “my sister/friends don’t tell me about harassment” is not actually a rigorous argument.

Oh and why we’re at it can you tell me what you think about my previous comments about dismissal being a form of oppression?

Thanks ever so.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Hengist: “On any given day I am harassed by men who believe they are entitled to my time, attention and body”

“Tell you what, Hengist, I’ll be happy to provide just a few examples from my own life as well as the lives of other women I know personally, of inequity, discrimination, sexual assault and harassment.”

So you are pretending that, “I am harrassed by men”, and a “a few examples from my own life” = “all men are harrassers?

Wow… that’s some amazing inference there. Now, care to show where, using quotations, anyone here actually said, “all men are harrassers”?

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

Shora: Well, apparently, now it’s not even enough that you brush it off — you are required to not notice it in the first place. Because, since women with their feeble ladybrains can only notice one “type” of man at a time, any woman who notices a man screaming threats and obscenities at her or groping her must be a man-hating wacko feminist who believes all men are out to get her. Now, courtesy of chuckedee and Hengist, we get to the root of the whole “man-hating” accusation: their starting premise is that a woman thinks that at any time, only one type of man exists in the world, because our minds are too weak, you see, to appreciate nuance and variation in human behavior. Therefore, a woman who says that a rape occurred, even if it DID occur and it WAS rape, is certainly thinking all men are rapists. Because if she was a normal, non-man-hating woman, she wouldn’t notice things like rape, domestic violence, insults or slut-shaming, even when they happened to her.

Men, of course, are allowed to notice whatever the hell they want without any negative imprimatur on their character.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Stupid tags.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Especially if when I ignore you, you proceed to shout “Hey! Hey! I’m talking to you!” I’m not hearing impaired. I’m going to notice.

There was a guy on the street yesterday, calling after a woman walking by. She ignored him, so he kept repeating, a little louder each time: because she was getting further away, “Hey, SWEATPANTS!”

He was buy himself, was he trying to bond with me?

Lauralot
9 years ago

So basically, chuckedee and Hengist think all women are Tinkerbell and thus only capable of feeling one emotion at a time?

Hengist
Hengist
9 years ago

People can’t change an entire culture single-handedly, but one person can make a difference. If you’re with a group of friends, and one yells a rude thing at another person, speak up and tell them it’s wrong. It can be hard to speak up and be the voice of reason, but once you do, you might surprised to find out everyone else agrees with you but they were too afraid to speak up first.

Absolutely. It takes a good amount of bravery and self-confidence for most guys to do that, though, knowing they might no longer be “part of the gang” if they do. Kinda like a Manboobz regular disagreeing with the party line. 😉 But yes, it is sometimes a problem.

Also, going back to what you said before: If gang-raping a woman is being used as a male-bonding ritual, does it mean it’s not rape anymore? Should the woman just not notice it?

We’re equating catcalling to gang rape now?

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

Hengist: Not good enough. The first quote is about being harassed by certain men — namely, ones that feel entitled to the woman’s attention and body. Nothing about being harassed by all men. The second quote is about offering to provide examples of being harassed and oppressed. Again, nothing about being harassed by all men. So you have to try again: provide quotes in which the author claims to be harassed by ALL men. Or even the majority (to make it easier for you).

Shora
9 years ago

Amused: -slaps hand to forehead- Duh! It’s just so simple I have no idea how I didn’t think of that — oh wait, yes I do; I have a feeble ladybrain who can’t think up such incredible and mindblowing leaps of logic and truthiness.

Mind=Blown

chuckeedee
chuckeedee
9 years ago

I’m not prioritizing you. I’m noticing. It doesn’t mean that I can’t/don’t see other types of men.

No, you are prioritizing the worst kind of men (but I’m not like them… promise :)). The vast, overwhelming majority of men do not conduct themselves in this manner that you describe, and the fact that you only seem to make a big deal out of the men that do, says everything that anyone needs to know about you.

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

We’re equating catcalling to gang rape now?

No, we are applying the rules that you yourself set forth. You claimed that catcalling is not harassment because it’s done for purposes of male bonding. Which implies that any act of male bonding is just that. Correct?

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

So I kept kicking this dog and poking it with a stick, until it bit me! I knew the “friendly dog” thing was just a pretense all along!

Hengist, wouldn’t the logical thing to do be to pretned that you aren’t being poked? You know, just ignore it?

And who compares themselves to a dog? Honestly.

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

Chuckeedee: Every time I think you can’t get any more idiotic, you manage to surprise.

So, you believe that if a woman is being groped, her proper response would be to feel startled by all those men who are NOT groping her right now. Right? Very well — then I expect that False Rape Society to immediately change its content to writing loads of jaw-dropping entries about women who are NOT accusing anyone of rape.

Hengist
Hengist
9 years ago

So you are pretending that, “I am harrassed by men”, and a “a few examples from my own life” = “all men are harrassers?

Wow… that’s some amazing inference there. Now, care to show where, using quotations, anyone here actually said, “all men are harrassers”?

Being harassed daily/ having a good amount of examples of harassment in one’s life does seem to point towards this being a pretty big problem, no? Hence many men are harassers? Unless, I guess, it’s the same one doing it every time. And doesn’t this seem like the attitude of someone who’s either paranoid or easily offended, considering that a) this sort of discussion only ever comes up in feminist circles and b) personal experience with women tells me they don’t experience anywhere near the quantity or intensity of the treatment described here?

There could also be another explanation. Some people, through a personality quirk or other factors, may in fact attract harassers and other pathological personalities. This isn’t their fault, it’s usually unconscious or beyond their control. It might explain why some women notice/complain about this sort of thing constantly while for others it’s not a big issue.

Pecunium
9 years ago

So.. let me get this straight, in Chuckeeee-land, it’s wrong to notice people who harrass you? Prioritising the people who are being rude/threatening is unjust?

This is the sign of how nasty feminists are? The same sort of guy who says women need to think about how they look, and the places they go, so they can spot the potential rapists (which sounds a lot like prioritising to me), instead of thinking all men might be potential rapists, is now upset that people who are being asshole get noticed more than people who aren’t.

It’s almost as if he’s trying to rig the game so that women are always wrong.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

No, you are prioritizing the worst kind of men (but I’m not like them… promise ). The vast, overwhelming majority of men do not conduct themselves in this manner that you describe, and the fact that you only seem to make a big deal out of the men that do, says everything that anyone needs to know about you.

I agree that the vast, overwhelming majority of men do not engage in street harassment. So what’s your point? How does being aware of sexual harassment -when it happens- mean that I’m prioritizing the kind of men who do that?

What does it say about me other than establishing that I can see, hear, and walk?

Hengist
Hengist
9 years ago

You claimed that catcalling is not harassment because it’s done for purposes of male bonding. Which implies that any act of male bonding is just that. Correct?

Sadly, yes, it can be even in the case of rape. Obviously doesn’t make it right, but neither is your analogy. The consequences of rape are not in the same category as those of yelling something in the street, and it’s both false and dishonest to try to make them equivalent.

Shora
9 years ago

Hengist, could you please answer my previous question? I re quoted it just for you.

Matthew Cline
Matthew Cline
9 years ago

The vast, overwhelming majority of men do not conduct themselves in this manner that you describe, and the fact that you only seem to make a big deal out of the men that do, …

This being a blog about misogyny, women commenting here are going to talk about sexist men, and aren’t going to talk much about non-sexist men since that’s off-topic. Thus the men mentioned by women here isn’t necessarily going to be representative of what they think about men in general. To get a representative sampling you’d have to look at what the same women said about men elsewhere both on and off the Internet.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Hengist; Being harassed daily/ having a good amount of examples of harassment in one’s life does seem to point towards this being a pretty big problem, no?

No, if by pretty big problem you mean constant. Lets say I’m a woman, 30 years old, and I started to noticeably enter puberty at 13. Let’s further say I get harassed once a week.

30 – 13 = 17 x 52 = 884 discrete acts of harassment. It’s not a huge number of the men I encounter, but I will build up a large body of anecdata to hand to morons who say it’s a trivial problem.

Now, if by big problem you mean the tolerance for that level of steady harrassment of half the population, I agree.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Being harassed daily/ having a good amount of examples of harassment in one’s life does seem to point towards this being a pretty big problem, no?

Come on, Hengist. Don’t do this bullshit equivocation and backpedaling. We were getting somewhere. You were asked to provide quotes, from this thread, that proved that anyone here thinks that all men are harassers all the time. You quoted me and completely misrepresented what I said by doing so.

I have never said that all men are harassers. I have never said that most men are harassers. I don’t believe that and nothing that I’ve written today suggests -let alone- proves that I do.

But I have been sexually harassed. I have been harassed on the street, I have been harassed on my job. Just last Sunday, I was harassed in my own home. Some men enjoy -for whatever reason- harassing women. And I’ve met my fair share of them.

It can be a problem. It’s not the biggest problem I have, but it can be a problem.

Hengist
Hengist
9 years ago

Hengist. What is it precisely about your personal experience as a man that makes it a more valid interpretation of oppression and harassment against women then an actual woman talking about her actual experiences with oppression and harassment like, oh I don’t know, me?

What is it about your experience that makes it a more valid interpretation of oppression and harassment than the experiences of other women?

Please keep in mind that “my sister/friends don’t tell me about harassment” is not actually a rigorous argument.

Oh, and “they don’t tell you because they’re afraid and don’t trust you” is a rigorous argument?

Oh and why we’re at it can you tell me what you think about my previous comments about dismissal being a form of oppression?

Depends on who does the dismissal, for what reason, and whether it’s warranted. In your case, I didn’t dismiss your experiences as in saying they didn’t happen. I believe that you felt the way you said you did, and also that you might be oversensitive. I’ve said this before.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Chuck, what do mean not “notice” the men who don’t do this? Of course not all men are catcalling assholes, duh. How are we supposed to prioritize them? Blowjobs?

Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

I’ve talked to a lot of women in my time, and I don’t know of anyone–not one–who enjoys being shouted at or harassed on the street. Universally, women I’ve talked to experience harassment as being unpleasant at best and downright frightening at worst. I’ve known women–my wife included–who restrict their activities so as to not be harassed on the street. My wife, for example, no longer jogs because she finds the comments that men periodically yell at her to be humiliating and frightening (by the way, she jogged in loose sweats and generally dresses very modestly). And, lest you think that I only associate with crazy feminists, my mother-in-law, who voted for Bush twice, doesn’t like being harassed on the street either.

Seriously, guys, putting aside the legal issues, can’t we at least agree that harassing women is a shitty thing to do? That no amount of supposed bonding with our buds justifies humiliating or frightening other human beings who have done nothing to harm us? Can’t we all agree that people who continue to harass others even after this has been explained to them are, well, assholes?

It doesn’t seem like much to ask.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Oddly enough, I think the last time I noticed any harassment was in high school 17 years ago with some guy who drove up and was masturbating, he asked my friend and I if we wanted sex.

We both said no and he speed off.

Now have I seen other women get harassed? Yes. It sucks.

Hengist
Hengist
9 years ago

Come on, Hengist. Don’t do this bullshit equivocation and backpedaling. We were getting somewhere. You were asked to provide quotes, from this thread, that proved that anyone here thinks that all men are harassers all the time. You quoted me and completely misrepresented what I said by doing so.

Big surprise there. “Come on, provide quotes!” “Nuh-uh, those don’t count!”

I have never said that all men are harassers. I have never said that most men are harassers. I don’t believe that and nothing that I’ve written today suggests -let alone- proves that I do.

Ok, but you do see it as a serious and ever-present problem in your life, right?

But I have been sexually harassed. I have been harassed on the street, I have been harassed on my job. Just last Sunday, I was harassed in my own home. Some men enjoy -for whatever reason- harassing women. And I’ve met my fair share of them.

Can you give an example of what this harassment consisted of and how you reacted to it? I think that would answer whether you were oversensitive or not.

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