Ladies! You may think you’ve got the men of the world fooled, but the guys over on MGTOWforums.com can see right through you! As dontmarry puts it:
Everything that a woman does is deceitful. From makeup, push-up bras and high heels, to fibbing about her dick count or proclamations of ‘I don’t mind marrying a poor man’ (oh yes you do).
That’s right, ladies! We know those eyelashes aren’t real! We know your cheeks aren’t really that rosy! And your lips aren’t really that red! And your boobies aren’t really … um, what was I saying? I got distracted thinking about boobies. Anyway, you’re all a bunch of liars! I bet some of you even wear Spanx, which are a tool of Satan.
Also, that thing he said about the dick count. Stop the lies! We demand dick count accuracy!
“Buttman, would you bonk a girl who hadn’t bathed for a month? I find that hard to believe…”
I would not. Are you saying that you’ve never come across a man that would?
“All the other body hair is up for grabs, tho.”
And I’m sure it has never stopped dudes from trying to bone you.
Where did you come up with your theory of women’s vanity anyway?
Like all the other MRAs. From not interacting with actual women.
“And I do realize that women, whether as bad mothers or ditzy girlfriends, play their part in creating the asshole phenomenon.”
So it’s actually just the *women’s* fault! Cultural problem solved!
Actually… no, it’s not. This is just “eye for an eye”. Despite your insistence that if you live in a culture you disagree with you should “try to change it”, you don’t seem to be very supportive of efforts to re-define masculinity OR femininity, just heaping all the blame on one gender or another.
Moewicus, what I find intriguing is that ‘noticing’ verbal harassment is indicative that a woman is into rape fantasies.
If you live in a culture that encourages assholery, then leave it…
I think I’d need a spaceship.
…or try to change it, but by properly addressing cause and effect.
Indeed! Welcome to feminism!
Or is it all just men’s fault?
I refuse to discuss “dumb culture” with someone who barely knows how numbers work, but no, I don’t think sexism is all men’s fault. I just don’t think it’s the fault of women secretly wanting it, either.
I think it’s mostly the fault of both men and women who figure that there’s a certain sort of woman who’s asking for it.
Buttman, it may be that there’s some guy out there who would fuck me no matter what.
But since I would almost certainly not want to fuck him, it’s academic.
There’s a difference between competing for alphas and having a few standards. Pretty much all women have a few standards, and it’s not rare at all for them to find that no one who meets even the most basic standards (I’m not talking “6-figure income” here, I’m talking “has he bathed this month?”) is interested in them.
“Are you saying that you’ve never come across a man that would?”
Actually, Buttman, I once suggested a sweaty bonk after a summer day spent at a parade and was *turned down*! It’s amazing how men as well as women have hygiene preferences!
“And I’m sure it has never stopped dudes from trying to bone you.”
It has, actually. People have all kinds of body hair preferences, and I’ve never found it to be as simple as walking up to a dude and having him notice I have a vagina in order to initiate sex.
“SO IT’S ALWAYS WOMEN’S FAULT” is the predictable, kneejerk denial, usually with expletives. Why do feminists continue to deny the obvious? Namely, that men and women are equally responsible for everything that happens in a culture. Feminists want to empower women, and then make them look like helpless imbeciles who bear no responsibility for what happens in their dumb culture.
Chuckie writes:
“And I do realize that women, whether as bad mothers or ditzy girlfriends, play their part in creating the asshole phenomenon.”
Then later,
“Why do feminists continue to deny the obvious? Namely, that men and women are equally responsible for everything that happens in a culture.”
You’re not really using the right language if you want the second sentence to mean the same thing as the first, Chuckie. I’d agree with you on the second, but you haven’t said much so far to make me think you even *like* women… or men, with all your talk about “thugs”.
(Is “thugs” still code for “black people”? That MRA wrinkle hasn’t come up for a while.)
That’s not true. The only people responsible for the behavior of assholes is the assholes themselves. I don’t take responsibility for the actions of harassers. Being empowered doesn’t mean I take the blame for something I don’t do.
Actually, chuckeedee, let’s expand on this a bit. All we *have* heard is your theory on how women are contributing to “dumb culture” (preferring “thugs” as mates.) So, if both genders are screwing the culture over equally, how do you think men are messing things up as well? By being thugs?
Aha! You’ve made a connection! At least it’s a start. Keep at it, and you might eventually get to see the big picture and how it all comes together.
chuckeedee, so far all we’ve heard from you is what women are doing. What *are* the men doing? Having babies while not marrying the women? Only allowing a certain portion of men to have sex with all the women? Being thugs?
Please, enlighten us.
I don’t think our culture is quite so rigid that a man can’t make a personal decision not to be an asshole, at least.
Will it get you laid less? Fuck, I don’t know, maybe it will. Refusing to steal from people might make you poorer too.
But if you think you must be an asshole, or that you cannot get laid otherwise, then you’re suffering from a severe “going outdoors and seeing how many normal decent people are in normal happy couples” deficiency.
If you have a point and it’s all supposed to come together, why don’t you just tell us what it is? I don’t know how to read minds.
The big picture does not come in convenient sound-bites. Gotta rush. Keep the keyboards warm for me while I’m away.
If only it were that simple. A brief perusal of stopstreetharassment.org/blog reveals two examples of teenage girls being subjected to harassment by men driving up to them in their cars. One of these was in front of an elementary school:
stopstreetharassment.org/2011/09/extremefear/
stopstreetharassment.org/2011/09/nicerack/
On another site I saw a story of a woman out jogging who was harassed by some guys in an SUV screaming “nice ass, whore!” out of their window. One time, driving by a local high-school, I saw an SUV full of guys staring out at the crowd of highschoolers. One was even holding up a camera. It was not street harassment, but it creeped me the fuck out, probably for good reason.
Basically what I’m trying to say is SUVs cause street harassment.
Okay, bad joke, but clearly this is not something subject to simple vote-with-your-feet logic nor can the subjects of harassment reasonably be held to be contributing via some complicated loop of cause and effect that gives some men the idea of driving around and intimidating women they’ve never seen before. Your repeated attempts to inculpate the objects of harassment are more revealing of yourself than of reality, chuckeedee.
Chuckles, just no. Your crude generalizations of female sexuality seem to be based on comic books or Harlequin romances. Look, I’ve never been hard up for male attention, and that is exactly why I have always turned down jerks. I can do better. Sure, I like tall good-looking men. However, I don’t like arrogance. My husband is tall and handsome, but he is not arrogant. He is not violent or aggressive or domineering. I’ve unwillingly dealt with enough jerks in my life. I’m certainly not going to seek them out.
“The big picture does not come in convenient sound-bites.”
He can’t even SUMMARIZE it, guys. We’re gonna have to seek enlightenment elsewhere, I’m sure you’re all really sad about this.
I believe the big picture can best be summarized as:
-Men don’t do anything wrong
-Plus, women deserve it because they suck
-Plus, women secretly like it
-Now let’s hold hands and agree it’s everyone’s fault
-But not mine
Any internal or external inconsistencies you might perceive in this model are proof that you aren’t smart and don’t understand his big words.
Fuck, chuckeedee, if you hate brown people just fucking say so–no need to hide behind words like “thugspawn”. Seriously, how sad does your life have to be when you spend Friday night on the internet railing about women fucking “thugs”?
Chuckeedee is off working on the grand unified synthesis. Cue images of lightning and boiling red liquids in beakers. Here’s what I figure it’ll be:
Both men and women contribute to sexism.
OMG!!1ONE!
I never thought of that before. My feministic man-hating worldview is shattered.
Just kidding, chuck, just in case you were wondering. I never, to quote chuckeedee, “ [went] blaming the whole of men for it.” No one here did. I mean seriously, did anybody? Ever? Okay, maybe one or two people or small groups, but chuckeedee is arguing against that old implacable foe, the Straw Feminist. It always stands somewhere behind you and can only be reached by going through you, but is still, alas, not you.
Except for this bit. Any sane person can deny the non-obvious assertion that all parties are equally responsible for everything that happens in a culture.
Basically what I’m trying to say is SUVs cause street harassment.
I don’t think anybody can argue with that.
But, CB, there is a fundamental difference between you and women. Many women are choosing these men as partners and to sire their thugspawn. I’ve seen feminist women choose this type (discovering their sensitive side, and “he’s not like all the others”). You, on the other hand, will probably never have anything to do with this type, unless one of them lands you in hospital. The reason that many feminist women fixate on this kind of man is that one way or another, they fall within their scope of legitimate partner options – their definitions of what a man should be. Sure, they hate this kind of man on the surface, but there is a part of them that is drawn to the bad-boy stereotype. They are noticing the bad-boys that trigger something in their primal instincts. [That’s the point I was trying to make in my most recent posts after inbibing in some glasses of wine].
They are noticing the bad-boys, while your own type, for the most part, are invisible to them. When a woman’s sexuality is primed with certain definitions of masculinity, it’s actually very difficult for them to ignore the behavior of a yob, because their’s a subtle love-hate thing going on in their heads, pressing all the buttons.
There is no doubt that these types of men are arseholes, we can ALL agree on that, the ladies included. But they are arseholes with legitimacy. Many women like them that way. And that’s what I mean when I say that feminist women notice them and fixate on them, because in one way or another, subconsciously, they appeal to their primal sexual drives and definitions, whether they like it or not, whether they recognize it or not. And, one way or another, other women (and often feminists) are choosing them. And feminist women do often choose them, via frat parties. When women choose this type, this type becomes validated with a stamp of approval. Their women are in effect saying, “I like what you do. Keep doing it”. They are fraternizing with the enemy… your enemy.
And this justifies street harassment…how? Because some women like assholes, all women deserve to face the fear of harassment? Harassing behavior is wrong and should be discouraged. Full stop The fact that individual women sometimes make poor relationship choices does nothing to invalidate this position.