Ladies! You may think you’ve got the men of the world fooled, but the guys over on MGTOWforums.com can see right through you! As dontmarry puts it:
Everything that a woman does is deceitful. From makeup, push-up bras and high heels, to fibbing about her dick count or proclamations of ‘I don’t mind marrying a poor man’ (oh yes you do).
That’s right, ladies! We know those eyelashes aren’t real! We know your cheeks aren’t really that rosy! And your lips aren’t really that red! And your boobies aren’t really … um, what was I saying? I got distracted thinking about boobies. Anyway, you’re all a bunch of liars! I bet some of you even wear Spanx, which are a tool of Satan.
Also, that thing he said about the dick count. Stop the lies! We demand dick count accuracy!
You know, Hengist, if you truly just don’t believe that women deal with issues like sexual harassment, slut-shaming, assault etc., you can just come right out and say so. There’s no need to hide behind the skirts of your sister and “female friends.”
I doubt it. For most guys it’s a way to bond and ‘show off’ to their friends, nothing more.
A way to bond and show off by being highly disrespectful to a woman? Nice. Not misogynistic at all.
I was basically told that my experiences didn’t matter,
Experiences in what, being groped and harassed? Tell you what, here is how I see it: your hypothetical experiences in things that you’ve never experienced in actual reality matter less than the real experiences of people in real life.
WTF?
What you claim that groping or catcalling a woman, reducing her to a piece of meat, as a way for men to “bond” and therefore not harassment, the implication is that the woman in question has no dignity that would make such conduct reprehensible.
By telling me that I’m probably just being oversensitive, you are, in fact, saying otherwise.
You dismissing my experiences with oppression after specifically asking for them is… not actually the same as people telling you that dismissing my experiences because those of your friends/sister is not cool? Obviously they’re both relevant, but what is NOT relevant is saying “well, my sister doesn’t feel that way, you must be oversensitive!” when I say “I’ve been street harassed and it sucks!”
Yeah, I sure am glad to know that the guy who screamed “pussy” at me last week while I was walking home was just bonding with his friend beside him. That makes me feel much better about knowing that there are men on my campus who identify and think of women only by their genitalia.
“When I was on the bus home in middle school, a boy reached over, groped my breasts, and told me “You’ve got some nice boobies.”
By this logic, rather than telling him to get his hands off me and reporting him to the bus driver, I should have reached over, fondled his crotch, and said “Thanks, you’ve got a nice dick.””
Remember that a girl touching a guy without his permission is considered ‘cute’ and ‘romantic’ while the reverse gets the guy labeled a creepy pervert. So it probably wouldn’t have led to anything, other than people assuming you were together and making poetry about the two of you sitting in a tree, engaging in something or other.
So when I punched a boy on the playground in first grade and got sent to the principal’s office for it, that was because the playground supervisor thought it was “cute” and “romantic”?
And you don’t see anything WRONG with that!?
What, one wonders, is the thing they are showing off? Their deep and abiding respect for women? The subtle ways in which they appreciate beauty?
What is the bonding this leads to? Does it make them all more sensitive to the feelings and reactions of women?
Or is it about showing how they are more powerful than women, that they are able to say whatever they want to them; in ways they can’t do to men?
I’ll wager it’s a way to feel they are superior, and able to dominate.
But what do I know? I’m just a guy.
You know, Hengist, if you truly just don’t believe that women deal with issues like sexual harassment, slut-shaming, assault etc., you can just come right out and say so. There’s no need to hide behind the skirts of your sister and “female friends.”
Coming from sheep who bleat angrily at me while hiding in the safety of the herd, that’s pretty rich. No, I don’t believe women deal with those issues to the extent or the seriousness that you claim. I say this from personal experience and from the experiences of those around me. And I’ll need more than the opinion of a few wacko feminists on a man-hating leftist blog to change my opinion. That clear enough?
“Remember that a girl touching a guy without his permission is considered ‘cute’ and ‘romantic’ while the reverse gets the guy labeled a creepy pervert. So it probably wouldn’t have led to anything, other than people assuming you were together and making poetry about the two of you sitting in a tree, engaging in something or other.”
Which is very charming, unless touching the guy’s dick will result in his fist planted in your skull and you ending up in a coma. At this point, from the woman’s point of view, it doesn’t matter how the whole thing gets labeled. Although it will probably be labeled as “she was a slut and asked for it, and it probably didn’t happen anyway because nothing like that ever happened to my sister”.
So why hang around arguing with “a few wacko feminists” on a “man-hating leftist blog” in the first place?
It’s pretty much exactly what I expected. Angry, baseless, ignorant and completely solipsistic. Standard and uninteresting in almost every way. So now that everything’s out on the table are you going to provide evidence that I’m a wacko man-hater? If you do, I’ll share some personal stories about sexual harassment that you can dismiss as the over-reaction of an overly sensitive wacko feminist.
You know you want to…
Lauralot: Why, girl, to assplain to us his experiences with harassment, rape and slut-shaming do not match ours; and therefore ours don’t count. A man who hasn’t been raped by another man KNOWS that the rape of women by men is just a myth invented by a few wacko feminists and man-hating leftists!
Or is it about showing how they are more powerful than women, that they are able to say whatever they want to them; in ways they can’t do to men?
I’ll wager it’s a way to feel they are superior, and able to dominate.
But what do I know? I’m just a guy.
No, I think that’s pretty much right. Except that they do it to “weak” men as well. It still doesn’t mean the main intent is to offend the target.
But even if it was, wouldn’t that mean that they succeeded if you get offended? Seems like the logical thing to do would be to ignore it, laugh it off or have a snappy comeback, which would make them look the idiots. I remember a saying “nobody can make you feel like a victim without your consent”.
I’ve been asking him that since this morning. I think he does it because he’s so secure and strong-minded. As clearly evidenced by his comments here today.
Hengist. What is it precisely about your personal experience as a man that makes it a more valid interpretation of oppression and harassment against women then an actual woman talking about her actual experiences with oppression and harassment like, oh I don’t know, me?
Please keep in mind that “my sister/friends don’t tell me about harassment” is not actually a rigorous argument.
Oh and why we’re at it can you tell me what you think about my previous comments about dismissal being a form of oppression?
Thanks ever so.
So basically, he knows he’s not going to convince us his way is correct, but he wants to sit around and tell us that he’s right and we’re idiots anyway? That’s productive.
Standard and uninteresting in almost every way.
Yes, you are.
Did you just “I know you are but what am I?” Really?
Congratulations, Hengist, your debate skills are now on par with PeeWee Herman’s.
Nobinayamu: It looks like my, “what if” was spot on.
If I’m remembering my trolls right, I already sent you a small bit of statistical substantiation on a number of ways in which women suffer… should have been on the line of 4 or 5 links to studies that established a few methods of economic discrimination, and you still haven’t changed even one tiny bit. Why should any of us believe you can change your mind at all?
So why is it that feminist women only notice these kinds of dudes? There are an awful lot of dudes walking around on campus who don’t behave or think this way. Seems to me that there’s an awful lot of projection going on.
“I remember a saying “nobody can make you feel like a victim without your consent”.
Now go ahead and apply that to all those men who are claiming they are being oppressed by women.
“Seems like the logical thing to do would be to ignore it”
It’s not logical because it isn’t based on reality. Ignoring it usually encourages more of such conduct.
“laugh it off”
If you are a woman, laughing it off does not make harassers look like idiots. It makes you look like a slut who is enjoying it. If they now grab you, drag you into the car and rape you, the fact that earlier, you “laughed off” their crude sexual comments will be introduced as evidence of consent.
“or have a snappy comeback”
Same as laughing it off.
Why is it MRA’s only notice Andrea Dworkin, Cynthia McKinnon, Mary Daly, Valerie Solanas and Amanda Marcotte?
Seems to me there’s an awful lot of projection going on.
Hengist, I know you’ll probably dismiss what I say but I’ll tell you anyway. Street harassment makes me feel threatened. It really does. Anecdote time: I was at Wal-Mart wearing jeans and a T-shirt picking out pop to put in my grocery cart. Some jackass came up behind me, pinched my butt, and whistled. I felt so humiliated, I wanted to cry. My husband was at the other end of the aisle, saw the incident, and came over to start a fight with the guy. I got between the two to stop the fight. The jackass apologized to my husband for touching “his woman” but did not apologize to me. Still, I insisted to my husband we go home and forget the whole deal. My husband’s reaction to the whole thing was stronger than mine. He didn’t dismiss me as being oversensitive. He thought I underreacted by wanting to stop the fight and forget about it.
By the way, the only reason I even mentioned what I was wearing is to show how you can’t rely on the way you dress to prevent harassment. The only people that can prevent street harassers are the harassers themselves.