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Cosmetics: An evil plot to fool the men of the world into thinking that ladies are pretty

Evil female deceiver at work

Ladies! You may think you’ve got the men of the world fooled, but the guys over on MGTOWforums.com can see right through you! As dontmarry puts it:

Everything that a woman does is deceitful. From makeup, push-up bras and high heels, to fibbing about her dick count or proclamations of ‘I don’t mind marrying a poor man’ (oh yes you do).

That’s right, ladies! We know those eyelashes aren’t real! We know your cheeks aren’t really that rosy! And your lips aren’t really that red! And your boobies aren’t really … um, what was I saying? I got distracted thinking about boobies. Anyway, you’re all a bunch of liars! I bet some of you even wear Spanx, which are a tool of Satan.

Also, that thing he said about the dick count. Stop the lies! We demand dick count accuracy!

 

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Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

It just goes to show–the fabled “hairy bra-burning feminists” of yore were the only honest women.

Bostonian
Bostonian
9 years ago

So women who wear makeup are evil, and women who do not wear make up are evil too. Good to know.
God almighty these guys are idiots.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

Futrelle,

Would you concede that there is a sizable proportion of women who behave this way?

johnnykaje
9 years ago

He’s right, I do lie about my dick count. If I told people I had an unfurling starburst of 20+ modest-sized penises where my vagina should be, I’d creep people out.

Bostonian
Bostonian
9 years ago

Women wearing makeup are a clearly a sign of the apocalypse, David, why can’t you admit tha

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Yes, GL Piggy, there is a sizable proportion of women who wear makeup, high heels, and push-up bras.

This is not “lying,” unless you think it’s deceptive to brush your hair because the world deserves to know what you look like with tangled hair.

As for lying about the “number,” this happens because people claim that women decline in “value” with each partner–and it only matters to people who believe that.

Funny story: I’ve forgotten my number. (Somewhere in the high teens or low twenties. I lost the list.) Does the fact that my sexual number is indeterminate mean that no one can ever know my true sexual “value?” Am I Heisenberg’s Fuck, doomed to have unknowable quality because my number is not known?

Molly Ren
9 years ago

Somehow, when Piggy says “Would you concede that there is a sizable proportion of women who behave this way?” I think he’s really focusing on this bit: “‘I don’t mind marrying a poor man’ (oh yes you do).”

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Woman A: “I don’t care if the guy I marry is poor.”

Woman B, who has never met woman B and has nothing in common with her: “I’m marrying a rich guy! I’m so happy!”

MRAs: “The Woman Hive Mind is such a hypocrite! It says one thing, and then it has one of its other bodies do a different thing!”

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

*never met woman A

durrrr

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

Holly,

the word used by the MGTOW’er was “deceitful”. there is an element of deceit in that just as there are elements of deceit in things that guys do too. buying flowers, dates, romance, highlighting occupational roles or status, etc. are tactics of “deceit” that guys might use to woo women.

so the MGTOW there wasn’t wrong because he says that about women; he’s more wrong because he doesn’t mention the ways men do it too. but i think the position of MRAs and MGTOWs is that there is a strong cultural meme that men are deceitful whereas everything that women do is not looked at in that way.

johnnykaje
9 years ago

G.L.– would you rather they not wear makeup, bras, etc? Or would that make them radical feminazi coobags?

Let me rephrase: is there any way women can win at this?

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

Molly:

I think he’s really focusing on this bit: “‘I don’t mind marrying a poor man’ (oh yes you do).”

Any particular reason why you would think that? Women prefer guys with higher status, all else being equal. That isn’t controversial to me, neither does it bother me. That’s their prerogative.

So you might want to not make assumptions about what I think on these topics.

zombie rotten mcdonald

We demand dick count accuracy!

One.

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

the word used by the MGTOW’er was “deceitful”. there is an element of deceit in that just as there are elements of deceit in things that guys do too. buying flowers, dates, romance, highlighting occupational roles or status, etc. are tactics of “deceit” that guys might use to woo women.

Well, sure, women are deceitful in the same way that general politeness is. Again, this is about as shockingly dishonest as brushing your hair.

Romance isn’t always deceit, though. Not every guy is pretending to be affectionate to get laid. Now and then some actual affection slips through the cracks.

but i think the position of MRAs and MGTOWs is that there is a strong cultural meme that men are deceitful whereas everything that women do is not looked at in that way.

There is? There’s certainly some nasty memes about men out there (such as that they only pretend to be affectionate to get laid), but “deceitful” in this way isn’t really one of them. Men usually get stereotyped as the drooling brutes, not the sneaky schemers.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

johnnykaye,

i don’t care what these women wear. i’m not the MGTOW who was quoted in this piece. let’s just call it what it is though; there is an element of deceit in people – men or women – artificially or temporarily increasing their status. it’s sort of like steroids in baseball. this isn’t a question of morality or ethics as the MGTOW *might* believe; that’s just how it works.

johnnykaje
9 years ago

This guy’s comment is just a wordy, pretentious rephrasing of the old misogynist joke.

Why do women wear makeup and perfume?
.
.
.
.
.
Because they’re ugly and they stink.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

Holly:

“Men usually get stereotyped as the drooling brutes, not the sneaky schemers.”

Men are dogs? Men can’t/won’t commit?

zombie rotten mcdonald

there is an element of deceit in that just as there are elements of deceit in things that guys do too. buying flowers, dates, romance,

your life must be horrible.

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Whatever. Nothing about this post suggested “we just need some balance in our understanding of the deceit behind normal social conventions for both genders.”

Finding that much nuance in it is… an impressive feat of exegesis, if not straight-up denial.

Matthew Cline
Matthew Cline
9 years ago

I would think that wearing makeup couldn’t be considered deceitful unless it’s applied in a way that conceals the fact that makeup is being used. If it’s obvious that a woman is wearing lipstick/blush/etc, how in the world could it be deception?

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Yes, and men who wear deodorant are deceiving people into believing they aren’t stinky. I brush my teeth every day, whether they need it or not, in order to deceive people into believing my teeth aren’t really green. Oh, and I wipe my ass every time I go poop in order to deceive people into believing that I do not, in fact, smell like shit.

All right, that last one was probably TMI, but you get the point. Basic hygiene and grooming does not equal deception. The expectation in most contexts, especially professional ones, is that women will wear makeup, just as the expectation at my job is that I will wear pants, goddam it all.

karak
karak
9 years ago

Aren’t these the same people that rant and rave that women “let themselves go” after being married, and are no longer sexy and hot?

And aren’t these the same people that claim all feminists have “hairy legs” and ugly faces?

I mean, what ARE women allowed to do with their appearance? TELL US SO WE MAY KNOW!

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Spanx ARE a tool of Satan, but not because they’re deceptive, but because they’re unconfortable as all hell.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

This must be my day for being confused. Maybe it’s the allergies.

Are dates, flowers and romance inherently or conditionally deceitful? Are cosmetics only deceitful if you not immediately discernible (a significant percentage of the products/market) or is it all deceitful? What about grooming? When does it cross the line from grooming into cosmetic? And is it deceitful? Wouldn’t it be simple to pursue/fate women who don’t wear makeup? Or, at least, makeup that you don’t immediately recognize as makeup?

And, am I the only woman on earth who has never had a man ask her how many partners she’s had? Do men really do this?

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

This is also, apparently, my day for open tags.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

your life must be horrible.

yeah, that’s what i was saying.

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I think the question of “deceit” also runs into the question of how much of your personal appearance, sexual history, or romantic preferences are the public’s goddamn business.

I don’t think everyone on the street has the right to know how big a person’s breasts really are or how blotchy their complexion really is, much less how many people they’ve really slept with.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

Bathrobe:

i think there is a difference between routine hygiene and boob jobs, year-round tanning, and gold-digging.

what interests me is that there are hypocrisies on both sides of this debate. MGTOW will rail against women who are seen doing these things, and feminists will alternate between railing on these materialistic women or defending women from these charges.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

Holly:

i’m not sure where you see men publicly harping on women for their notch counts and making the discussion of notch counts everyone’s business. other women are more apt to do that. where you mostly see blowback on women with high notch counts is on the internet where men discuss the concept of “high notch counts”. most of these men would still get down and dirty with a woman with a high notch count, but the internet is a place to discuss ideals and “how things should be”.

but it’s not anyone’s business until a man who is weighing the prospects of dating a woman asks the question. if he doesn’t want to date a woman who has had too many partners – whatever number he deems as such – then that is his choice.

MissPrism
9 years ago

There must be some other meaning of “deceitful” that’s in play here. Because none of this makes any sense at all.

What the blistering fuck is deceitful about buying flowers? Are they hologram flowers? “I have brought you flowers” would be a deceitful thing to say if you had not, in fact, brought flowers. Or if what you had brought was a whole load of spiders on skewers.

Similarly, wearing lipstick is not deceitful unless the lipstick-wearer shouts “Look at me I am not wearing any lipstick”, and that would be an odd thing to do as lipstick is openly sold and advertised and most people know what it looks like.

johnnykaje
9 years ago

Basic hygiene and grooming does not equal deception.

*puts on radfem hat*

I wouldn’t call makeup, heels etc. grooming, and certainly not basic hygiene. Fashion maybe? It’s an arbitrary fashion demanded of women (like ties and suits in men). I personally am anti-makeup and anti-heels (for myself only), because I’m against arbitrary fashion that impedes my comfort and time.

zombie rotten mcdonald

Oh, and I wipe my ass every time I go poop in order to deceive people into believing that I do not, in fact, smell like shit.

All right, that last one was probably TMI, but you get the point. Basic hygiene and grooming does not equal deception.

Captain, do you not remember the thread where the MRAs defended not wiping their asses?

paniorpa
9 years ago

I disagree with these men. I honestly believe I am more deceitful than the vast majority of women, and since I am more intelligent, I can easily dupe them into spreading their legs open and contribute to their skyrocketing dick count.

MissPrism
9 years ago

Nobinayamu – I too have never once been asked my “number” by anyone at all, so have never even had the opportunity to lie about it, let alone any cause to do so.

I deceitfully wear a bra though, just to make it look, to my gullible victims, as though I wear a bra. (And it hurts not to, but mostly it’s the sheer thrill of deceit.)

blitzgal
9 years ago

“feminists will alternate between railing on these materialistic women or defending women from these charges.”

Feminists rail against cultural expectations that REQUIRE women to do these things (because women who do NOT do these things are socially punished for it in various ways). I wear glasses, no makeup, t-shirt/jeans, and have short hair. Men on the street take it upon themselves to: 1) ask if I’m female 2) call me a dyke 3) sexually harass me to ‘put me in my place.’

The simple fact is that some men (not all, but some) are threatened and/or offended by women who do not conform to the above standards. It’s really a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. We’re blamed for conforming, but punished if we don’t.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

i think there is a difference between routine hygiene and boob jobs, year-round tanning, and gold-digging.

Indeed, Piggy, but are we going far enough here to insure that men are adequately protected from such egregious acts of fraud?

Perhaps we should delegate the task of keeping track of “dick count” to a government agency, like the DMV? Then men could get a printout of any prospective dates sexual experience–kind of like Carfax. Also, any body work, cosmetic surgery, use of tanning booths, makeup, birth control, abortions, and history of gold digging could be meticulously documented, so that any hapless male knows exactly what he’s getting into, as it were.

Perhaps vaginas themselves should be subject to periodic inspection and registration with an appropriate government agency. We could call it the Department of Poontang, and it would required by law to be decorated in late 70s style, with Barry White playing at all times.

Vaginas could be fitted with little turnstiles so that every act of sexual congress is recorded and its record transmitted to the DOP. Perhaps a small digital read out of the Dick Count could be permanently attached to a woman’s lower back, where it would function like a car’s odometer. Needless to say, tampering with the Dick Count Meter would be subject to the most severe penalties allowed by law.

See, I’m an idea guy. Let me know if you need any more.

Bostonian
Bostonian
9 years ago

How horrifying, the creep is here. It really says something when someone is even worse than our usual trolls.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

I wouldn’t call makeup, heels etc. grooming, and certainly not basic hygiene. Fashion maybe? It’s an arbitrary fashion demanded of women (like ties and suits in men). I personally am anti-makeup and anti-heels (for myself only), because I’m against arbitrary fashion that impedes my comfort and time.

Fair enough, but neither does fashion equal deception.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Captain, do you not remember the thread where the MRAs defended not wiping their asses?

No, I don’t. Man, it’s hard to do irony when irony is dead.

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Philosophical question: can a woman with breast implants really be considered to be “lying” about her breast size? If someone’s wearing a push-up bra and she takes it off, you can see her breasts are smaller underneath. But breast implants don’t come off; they’ll be just as big when she’s naked and during sex.

Since her original small breasts no longer exist in a recognizable form, can she really be accused of “hiding” them?

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I honestly believe I am more deceitful than the vast majority of women

Funnily enough, I believe this too.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Paniorpa, I totally buy you’re more deceitful that most. You’re also creepier than most, so I’m not sure if I believe the last part of your comment.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

Ha ha, I have fooled everyone into thinking my fingernails are purple, and my eyelids are sparkly silver. It’s all part of my evil scheme to um, take over the world or something. I think the MGTOW are mad at regular women for not looking like Jessica Alba when they take their makeup off. Hell, even Jessica Alba doesn’t look like Jessica Alba when she takes her makeup off. I personally find it relieving to see pictures of stars without makeup, as cheesy as those tabloids are. It reassures me that even actresses and models need some Revlon to look the way they do, so it’s okay for us mere mortals to use cosmetics, too.

zombie rotten mcdonald

boob jobs, year-round tanning, and gold-digging.

Pop quiz: which one of these things is not like the other?

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

You mean like this Captain Bathrobe:

Oh wait, that is something positive for women. NEVER MIND. 😛

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

I’m at work, Beth, so I can’t view it now. But any movie with the title Amazon Women on the Moon has to be ten different kinds of awesome. 🙂

Amnesia
Amnesia
9 years ago

Why are they railing against cosmetics when they should be railing against clothes? I mean, everybody that wears clothes hides the true form of their bodies from everyone else!
Anybody here wearing clothes is a liar and a deceiver and probably a communist. Somehow.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

The movie is the MOST AWESOME THING FROM THE 80s that involves all those actors. (it is mainly just a bunch of hilarious shorts.)

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

Would you concede that there is a sizable proportion of women who behave this way?

I’m not David, but I’d concede, No. Stop being stupid.

Hershele Ostropoler
9 years ago

Piggy:

the word used by the MGTOW’er was “deceitful”. there is an element of deceit in that just as there are elements of deceit in things that guys do too. buying flowers, dates, romance, highlighting occupational roles or status, etc. are tactics of “deceit” that guys might use to woo women.

This morning someone handed me something and I said “thank you” rather than snatching it out of their hand. I’m such a filthy, filthy liar.

Piggy:

feminists will alternate between railing on these materialistic women or defending women from these charges.

Question for the group: do you think he means “some feminists rail and other feminists defend” or “some women rail and other women defend, and if women do something that means feminists support it”?

MissPrism:

There must be some other meaning of “deceitful” that’s in play here. Because none of this makes any sense at all.

It’s straight-up equivocation: being deceitful (as the term is generally understood) is bad. Women are deceitful (in a technically correct sense of the word that is so broad as to include almost anything anyone does). Therefore, women are bad.

Pan:

I honestly believe I am more deceitful

Are you a Cretan?

Anyway, we’ve already established you’re a dreadful human being, a skidmark in the species’s collective underwear, so, yeah.

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