Ladies! You may think you’ve got the men of the world fooled, but the guys over on MGTOWforums.com can see right through you! As dontmarry puts it:
Everything that a woman does is deceitful. From makeup, push-up bras and high heels, to fibbing about her dick count or proclamations of ‘I don’t mind marrying a poor man’ (oh yes you do).
That’s right, ladies! We know those eyelashes aren’t real! We know your cheeks aren’t really that rosy! And your lips aren’t really that red! And your boobies aren’t really … um, what was I saying? I got distracted thinking about boobies. Anyway, you’re all a bunch of liars! I bet some of you even wear Spanx, which are a tool of Satan.
Also, that thing he said about the dick count. Stop the lies! We demand dick count accuracy!
It just goes to show–the fabled “hairy bra-burning feminists” of yore were the only honest women.
So women who wear makeup are evil, and women who do not wear make up are evil too. Good to know.
God almighty these guys are idiots.
Futrelle,
Would you concede that there is a sizable proportion of women who behave this way?
He’s right, I do lie about my dick count. If I told people I had an unfurling starburst of 20+ modest-sized penises where my vagina should be, I’d creep people out.
Women wearing makeup are a clearly a sign of the apocalypse, David, why can’t you admit tha
Yes, GL Piggy, there is a sizable proportion of women who wear makeup, high heels, and push-up bras.
This is not “lying,” unless you think it’s deceptive to brush your hair because the world deserves to know what you look like with tangled hair.
As for lying about the “number,” this happens because people claim that women decline in “value” with each partner–and it only matters to people who believe that.
Funny story: I’ve forgotten my number. (Somewhere in the high teens or low twenties. I lost the list.) Does the fact that my sexual number is indeterminate mean that no one can ever know my true sexual “value?” Am I Heisenberg’s Fuck, doomed to have unknowable quality because my number is not known?
Somehow, when Piggy says “Would you concede that there is a sizable proportion of women who behave this way?” I think he’s really focusing on this bit: “‘I don’t mind marrying a poor man’ (oh yes you do).”
Woman A: “I don’t care if the guy I marry is poor.”
Woman B, who has never met woman B and has nothing in common with her: “I’m marrying a rich guy! I’m so happy!”
MRAs: “The Woman Hive Mind is such a hypocrite! It says one thing, and then it has one of its other bodies do a different thing!”
*never met woman A
durrrr
Holly,
the word used by the MGTOW’er was “deceitful”. there is an element of deceit in that just as there are elements of deceit in things that guys do too. buying flowers, dates, romance, highlighting occupational roles or status, etc. are tactics of “deceit” that guys might use to woo women.
so the MGTOW there wasn’t wrong because he says that about women; he’s more wrong because he doesn’t mention the ways men do it too. but i think the position of MRAs and MGTOWs is that there is a strong cultural meme that men are deceitful whereas everything that women do is not looked at in that way.
G.L.– would you rather they not wear makeup, bras, etc? Or would that make them radical feminazi coobags?
Let me rephrase: is there any way women can win at this?
Molly:
Any particular reason why you would think that? Women prefer guys with higher status, all else being equal. That isn’t controversial to me, neither does it bother me. That’s their prerogative.
So you might want to not make assumptions about what I think on these topics.
We demand dick count accuracy!
One.
Well, sure, women are deceitful in the same way that general politeness is. Again, this is about as shockingly dishonest as brushing your hair.
Romance isn’t always deceit, though. Not every guy is pretending to be affectionate to get laid. Now and then some actual affection slips through the cracks.
There is? There’s certainly some nasty memes about men out there (such as that they only pretend to be affectionate to get laid), but “deceitful” in this way isn’t really one of them. Men usually get stereotyped as the drooling brutes, not the sneaky schemers.
johnnykaye,
i don’t care what these women wear. i’m not the MGTOW who was quoted in this piece. let’s just call it what it is though; there is an element of deceit in people – men or women – artificially or temporarily increasing their status. it’s sort of like steroids in baseball. this isn’t a question of morality or ethics as the MGTOW *might* believe; that’s just how it works.
This guy’s comment is just a wordy, pretentious rephrasing of the old misogynist joke.
Why do women wear makeup and perfume?
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.
.
.
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Because they’re ugly and they stink.
Holly:
“Men usually get stereotyped as the drooling brutes, not the sneaky schemers.”
Men are dogs? Men can’t/won’t commit?
there is an element of deceit in that just as there are elements of deceit in things that guys do too. buying flowers, dates, romance,
your life must be horrible.
Whatever. Nothing about this post suggested “we just need some balance in our understanding of the deceit behind normal social conventions for both genders.”
Finding that much nuance in it is… an impressive feat of exegesis, if not straight-up denial.
I would think that wearing makeup couldn’t be considered deceitful unless it’s applied in a way that conceals the fact that makeup is being used. If it’s obvious that a woman is wearing lipstick/blush/etc, how in the world could it be deception?
Yes, and men who wear deodorant are deceiving people into believing they aren’t stinky. I brush my teeth every day, whether they need it or not, in order to deceive people into believing my teeth aren’t really green. Oh, and I wipe my ass every time I go poop in order to deceive people into believing that I do not, in fact, smell like shit.
All right, that last one was probably TMI, but you get the point. Basic hygiene and grooming does not equal deception. The expectation in most contexts, especially professional ones, is that women will wear makeup, just as the expectation at my job is that I will wear pants, goddam it all.
Aren’t these the same people that rant and rave that women “let themselves go” after being married, and are no longer sexy and hot?
And aren’t these the same people that claim all feminists have “hairy legs” and ugly faces?
I mean, what ARE women allowed to do with their appearance? TELL US SO WE MAY KNOW!
Spanx ARE a tool of Satan, but not because they’re deceptive, but because they’re unconfortable as all hell.
This must be my day for being confused. Maybe it’s the allergies.
Are dates, flowers and romance inherently or conditionally deceitful? Are cosmetics only deceitful if you not immediately discernible (a significant percentage of the products/market) or is it all deceitful? What about grooming? When does it cross the line from grooming into cosmetic? And is it deceitful? Wouldn’t it be simple to pursue/fate women who don’t wear makeup? Or, at least, makeup that you don’t immediately recognize as makeup?
And, am I the only woman on earth who has never had a man ask her how many partners she’s had? Do men really do this?
This is also, apparently, my day for open tags.