Categories
Uncategorized

Why the Men’s Rights Movement needs to stop making excuses for violence

The aftermath of a gunman's rampage at an Arkansas courthouse

In June, a man named Thomas Ball took his own life – literally lighting himself ablaze – outside of a Keane, New Hampshire courthouse. He left behind a manifesto protesting his treatment by the family court.

But Ball wanted to do more than protest what he felt were injustices against men. He hoped to inspire other men to take the law into their own hands; in his words “we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses.”

He wasn’t speaking figuratively: he was talking about real violence.

[T]he dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. …  Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. … And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out. …

Ball went on to offer specific advice on how to construct the most effective Molotov cocktails to lob at courthouses and police stations.

Nor did he seem overly concerned that people would be killed:

There will be some casualties in this war. Some killed, some wounded, some captured. Some of them will be theirs. Some of the casualties will be ours. …

I only managed to get the main door of the Cheshire County Courthouse in Keene, NH. I would appreciate it if some of you boys would finish the job for me.

Ball has been treated as a martyr by many Men’s Right’s Activists online; his manifesto – including those parts that explicitly call for terrorism – has been reposted on a number of MRA sites.

Why am I bringing up Ball? This is why:

On Tuesday, an Arkansas man reportedly entered the office of the judge that had presided over his divorce and custody hearings, and opened fire with a semiautomatic rifle. Amazingly, no one died as a result of his rampage, aside from the gunman himself, James Ray Palmer, who was taken down by police in a gun battle outside the courthouse, according to news accounts. The judge, fortunately, was not there, and the gunman’s rifle apparently jammed.  Before heading to the courthouse, authorities say, Palmer set his own home on fire with timed incendiary devices.

Was Palmer inspired directly by Ball’s manifesto? We don’t know. The judge in this case was by no means the first to be targeted by a man angry at the outcome of his divorce or custody case.  Judges were receiving death threats – and in some cases actually being murdered – long before there was such a thing as the Men’s Rights movement online.

But talk of violence is common on Men’s Rights sites. Opponents of the Men’s Rights movement are denounced as “collaborators,” while others talk plainly about fighting a “war” against feminism. Angry Harry, a British MRA revered by many of his ideological compatriots on this side of the pond, has offered an explicit apologia for violence against family court judges.

Even if Palmer himself was not directly influenced by the MRM online—as of yet, we don’t know —  it is only a matter of time until some unbalanced person steeped in the violent rhetoric of the MRM online decides to “finish the job” started by Thomas Ball. It is only a matter of time until those espousing such rhetoric have real blood on their hands.

If the MRM truly aspires to be a real civil rights movement, rather than a reactionary hate sect more redolent of the KKK than of MLK, moderate MRAs need to step up and speak out against the bullies and the would-be warriors. They need to stop canonizing violent-minded men like Ball. They need to make clear that violent rhetoric – not to mention specific threats or calls to terrorism – have no place in the movement.

Do I expect this to happen? No. I think instead we will get more excuses, more evasions, more apologias for violence — and more threatening talk.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

302 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Kollege Messerschmitt
10 years ago

I don’t even know who plamer is, this is the first I’ve heard of him. Its obviously wrong and hes obviously deranged, its also toxic to take him and use him to oppose mens rights and slander the mens movement.

Palmer is the guy who went on a shooting spree in the courthouse. You know, the guy half of David’s post is about? Did you… did you even read this post?

Catalogue
10 years ago

“How come then that comments on the spearhead that are endorsing, or even calling for, violence against women get numerous upvotes, while such comments (regarding both anti-women and anti-men violence) get criticised and/or deleted here on manboobz, and many other feminist spaces?”

On manboobz, abuse denial is supported and has been for some time now. (see his debate with paul elam) Most feminist spaces publish misinformation about violence that defends female abusers and invalidates male victims, for years no male victims have been subjected to abuse and silencing on feminist spaces. Jezebelle ran an article and the authors and feminists in the comments section high fived each other for beating their partners. I cant speak of the spearhead because I don’t go there, and most MRA view it as traditionalist and too hardline, misogynist etc,

“MRA’s aren’t so much asked to take responsibility for guys like Breivik, but to refrain from defending their actions and making excuses for them.”

Who defended Breivik, Peter Nolan? Most MRAs were sickend (but not surprised) by the fact that manbooz was exploiting the deaths in order to slander the mrm, Did you not see any of the articles?

Catalogue
10 years ago

“for years NOW male victims have been subjected to abuse and silencing on feminist spaces, that one of the reasons why there is so much resentment”

I should add that the feminist abuse industry engages in abuser protection and abuse denial as well as victim discrimination.

So there isn’t anything that the mrm is slandered with here, that feminism isnt on record doing as a policy.

Molly Ren
10 years ago

“I cant speak of the spearhead because I don’t go there, and most MRA view it as traditionalist and too hardline, misogynist etc,”

I desperately want to see these moderate MRA sites. Where the eff are they?

katz
10 years ago

David, are you flattered by the tacit admission that either your blog is so big or the MRM is so small that they pretty much all know about you?

katz
10 years ago

And I’ll have you know that the feminist abuse industry created 10,000 jobs last quarter.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

How quickly they give in xD Isn’t Catalogue always saying how he’s leaving cuz he doesn’t want to get involved in piling on and how we’re all lower than him? xD As far as I can tell all he’s doing right now is a) goalpost moving b) accusing others of doing so c) turning everything back to WELL FEMINISTS ARE JUST AS BAD xD

Let’s just start the whole MBZ challenge at this: show us the MRA equivalent of Ami Angelwings 😀 Then we’ll know this is a movement worth looking at! xD

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

So he’s basically making shit up at this point and hoping it sticks. It was more fun earlier, when he made the empirical claims that were wrong.

Catalogue
10 years ago

“Palmer is the guy who went on a shooting spree in the courthouse. You know, the guy half of David’s post is about? Did you… did you even read this post?”

No not all of it, all Davids Post are pretty the same posts, one lunatic did.said X, there for the mens movement is illigitimate (while ignoring comparable goings on in the feminist movement). Whenever someone loses it in a family court, David will try the blame the mrm, just like how marcotte tried to peg that other shooting on masculinity.

Retaliation by lone nuts against the family courts is inevitable, the mrm is fully aware of that but that doesnt mean it supports it, anyone that listens to AVFM radio will have heard the anti violence segments.

Catalogue
10 years ago

Ami, your site fails the manboobz test because it links out to bigotry and abuse denial propaganda.

katz
10 years ago

Are you expecting us to actually read your comments? Because they’re all pretty much the same comment.

Lauralot
10 years ago

So you’re here to argue about why the post and everyone agreeing with its point is wrong, and you haven’t even read the entire post. Brilliant.

Flib
Flib
10 years ago

It’s what one might expect of someone who creates their own fallacies as their excuse of not being able to validate their own points, and claim that the fallacy is on the others.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

I meant me xD Last I checked, my blogs had names, I’m Ami Angelwings 😀

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

I like how he can’t find any bigotry and abuse denial in my blog so he has to claim I link to it xD

Catalogue
10 years ago

“David, are you flattered by the tacit admission that either your blog is so big or the MRM is so small that they pretty much all know about you?”

Davids blog quite small compared to the mens movement, the comments section goes round and round because of the arguing style of the regulars giving the blog the appearance of it being bigger than it is, check alexa for traffic rankings and compare them against manboobz.

Although David was written about recently.

“Second, a man named David Futrelle runs a peculiarity called Man Boobz where he seeks out the stupidest assertions he can find from so-called “men’s rights” sites to post to his site with accompanying mocking commentary. The statements Futrelle chooses are often easy pickins’ to mock: generally guys with anti-woman chips on their shoulders. It’s when Futrelle ventures far from the most inane comments that he runs into trouble. Like when he tries to debate Paul Elam. He’s also prone to positing smug, conclusory assertions as if even controversial matters were self-evident and unworthy of any debate whatsoever. Read it for yourself to decide if I’m right. ”

http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/08/extremist-boobz-taylor-and-futrelle.html

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

[quote]Retaliation by lone nuts against the family courts is inevitable, the mrm is fully aware of that but that doesnt mean it supports it, anyone that listens to AVFM radio will have heard the anti violence segments.[/quote]
Funny, when you told me about feminists who were terrorists, I didn’t say their actions were inevitable or hint that they were justified. I said it was wrong, and that they shouldn’t do it, because terrorism is never justified, and shooting uninvolved people is similarly indefensible.

That’s the difference. I mean, the family courts aren’t even feminist-biased; you keep asserting this, and a cursory glance at who wins custody ‘confirms’ it. But if you look at *CONTESTED* custody cases, it’s trivially disconfirmed; men straight up win half of them. And that may be disproportionately too many, because we’re still in an unequal society that fobs most childcare work off on women.

But you say that this violence is ‘inevitable’ just the same. Really? Because I wouldn’t say that violence against STEM industries is inevitable just because the industries typically treat women like shit. You know why you don’t see stuff like that? Because feminism isn’t a hate movement that glories in destruction.

Catalogue
10 years ago

“I like how he can’t find any bigotry and abuse denial in my blog so he has to claim I link to it xD”

Ami, you link here don’t you and this site links to many sites that promote abuse denial?
David and the regulars here are prone to abuse denial, so you fail the manboobz test, but it doesn’t matter, there are few to no sites that pass it, the test is nonsense.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

I do? XD

You haven’t even LOOKED at my blog have you xD

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

Why would he substantiate his point with something so feministically biased as evidence?

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

Still waiting for the MRA angel cat bunny equivalent :3

Catalogue
10 years ago

“Funny, when you told me about feminists who were terrorists, I didn’t say their actions were inevitable or hint that they were justified. I said it was wrong, and that they shouldn’t do it, because terrorism is never justified, and shooting uninvolved people is similarly indefensible.”

Thing is, there were and are feminist that are organised terrorists. There are no mra’s that are. There are just these guys that David Futrelle depicts as being part of the mrm such as Palmer and the guy in Norway … and saying violence is inevitable and stating the reasons why it is, is not the same as supporting it. So don’t slander me.

Molly Ren
10 years ago

“anyone that listens to AVFM radio will have heard the anti violence segments”

There’s an MRA radio show?

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

I prefer Primetime Sports and Bob McCown 😀

Vermin
Vermin
10 years ago

Uhm, could you please name an existing feminist terrorist group? I must confess I have never heard of such organizations.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

David Futrelle | September 17, 2011 at 7:39 pm
Catalogue, again, I didn’t say Palmer or Breivik were MRAs. Did you actually bother to read my posts, or did you just skim them and make a bunch of assumptions?

He didn’t read my blog and just made a giant assumption about it xD I think that answers your question xD

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

The Sisterhood of Evil Mutants!

Molly Ren
10 years ago

Catalogue, is the False Rape Society a moderate blog in your view?

Pecunium
10 years ago

Catalogue: The context? You made a statement: MRAs who advocate violence are so few in number that talking about them as if they were at all representative is a slander against the 10s of 1,000s who are against it.

I challenged you to prove that this is a minority.

That’s the context. I’m not hair-splitting, I’m repeating myself.

Hell… for context, you are making apologia for violence in this thread.

Catalogue
10 years ago

David you never came out and said they were MRA, you inferred they were connected and your peanut gallery did the rest, as is the usual here.

Molly, FSR is what it is. Its pretty hard-line on false accusations and feminist rape misinformation and civil rights.

Vermin

Existing feminist terror groups …

Terrorist violence is more likely to be carried out by men than by women. Women’s roles with respect to terror groups used to be more often devoted to support, fund-raising, organising, public relations and political representation. With the rise of feminism, this is changing. The US American group, SCUM (Society for Cutting Up Men) and more recent all-women, feminist terror groups, such as those in Nepal, provide examples of changes in this area. Women are more likely to be members of left-wing terror groups and to espouse feminist ideology. There have been a higher proportion of women in Latin-American, German and Palestinian terror groups, than elsewhere. Women have been able to exploit their image of non-violence and weakness to escape detection and carry out terrorist activities.

http://web.mac.com/petermforster/Site/Psychology_of_terrorism.html

You might remember that one of Julian Assanges accusers was connected to a south american feminist terror group.

A south american feminist group threatened to castrate 21(?) american men if lorena bobbit went to jail …

MEK in the middle east is lead by a marxist feminist and supported by american feminist majority foundation. …http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2004/01/28/richard-perle-supports-terrorism/

“The MEK is a radical feminist organisation. Their leader believes that women should occupy all the leadership postitions in the resistance. This is refelcted in the current make-up of the organisation. The entire leadership council of the MEK as well as the NLO is comprised entirely of women. The President-elect of the organisation is a women Mrs Rajavi. Even though only 30% of the military resistance are women, women hold over two-thirds of the commander postions and command many all-male units. So the MEK seek to replace a male-dominated society in Iran, with one that actively discrimiantes against men. So rather than being progressive and for equal human-rights the MEK is as discrimiantory as any regime in the middle-east, if not worse because it currently masquerades as being democratic and fair. In reality the orgainsation discriminates against men.

Mrs. Rajavi must be greatly admired by American feminists. If you want to know what a feminist “utopia” would be like, this chilling article in the NY Times Magazine written by Elizabeth Rubin about MEK is probably right on the money.
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/55689

There are many feminist terror groups, the feminist abuse industry was built on terrorizing the founder of the egalitarian DV movement taking her movement from her ..

So all this trying to slander the entire mens movement with terrorism, is just a tad hypocritical

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

You really think SCUM is current or ever was a group? You really aren’t that bright and certainly don’t read for comprehension.

Catalogue
10 years ago

Pecunium

Given that feminism has a long documented history of terrorism and the men’s movement has no such history outside of Manboobz conjecture.

And that feminism has a documented history of defending and hiding female abusers and murderers. You are in no position to demand proof that the mens movement does not conform to your BS misandrist tropes and stereotypes,

Catalogue
10 years ago

Helkel

The man that wrote the paper on terrorism thinks SCUM was an active terror group, not me. The reading comprehension failure is on your part. And don’t shoot the messenger. Feminist terror groups exist. MRAs terror groups don’t.

captainbathrobe
10 years ago

@catalogue,

Not seeing the link between the Feminist Majority and the MEK. The link on the site you linked to just led to an announcement for a panel discussion on human rights in Iran, sponsored by FM–no mention of MEK.

Lauralot
10 years ago

If the MRA ever got off their asses long enough to organize, they’d probably make some terrorist groups instead of just bitching on the Internet. But that would take effort, so they won’t.

Pecunium
10 years ago

Catalogue: Given that you refuse to answer the questions you posed, you are in no position to say anyone is asking unwarranted questions.

Wow… that was easy.

But, as you made the allegation, and can’t defend it we can ignore you, as admitting (by default) your defeat; in accord with the principles of Logic 101 (which you invoked with the allegations of fallacy): Silence = assent.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Y’know, his bizarre syntax and his belaboring of the same point over and over again remind me of Samuel.

KathleenB
KathleenB
10 years ago

Catalogue: Please, provide some citations to back up your… assumptions.

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

He named the Angry Brigade, whom threatened a particular feminist with death threats. Unlike him, I do not approve of violence, however. As to organized MRA terrorists… there are, but I’m afraid I can’t say more on the matter here. Though I will say you’re pathetically blind.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Catalogue: I generally don’t read links provided by those who shit up the joint.

And learn to spell my name, it’s not hard.

Catalogue
10 years ago

Hi David, thats quite a charge, to say I am mentally deranged

Tell me what you think Im imagining.

Feminist abuse denial, feminist terror groups, feminists terrorizing the founder of the egalitarian DV movement and making it into the discriminatory movement is today, feminist advocacy for female child and spousal murderers?

And Ill post evidence…. Andrea Yeates, battered wife’s syndrome, MEK, Erin Pizzy, Dr Straus’s papers on systematic abuse denial by the feminist movement …. you know its all there.

as opposed to your slander and conjecture.

captainbathrobe
10 years ago

Did SCUM actually have any members other than Valerie Solanis?

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Nope, it was just her manifesto.

Lauralot
10 years ago

Are you trying to suggest that Andrea Yates got off because of battered wife syndrome? Seriously, I can’t tell, because your posting style is so convoluted. Because she didn’t, if that’s what you’re trying to claim. She suffered from postpartum psychosis, and she had a long medical history documenting her mental illness. It’s not like she drowned her children and the feminists swooped in to excuse her crime.

captainbathrobe
10 years ago

MEK is a Marxist terrorist organization that also supports equal rights for men and women. Al-Qaeda is an Islamisist terrorist organization that denies equal rights for women. It makes about as much sense to blame feminism for the MEK as it does to blame patriachists like the MRM for Al-Qaeda.

Catalogue
10 years ago

Nope, the PPD defence and battered womens defense are two different kinds of family murderer advocacy. Feminism also actively protects female abusers with convoluted studies.

Point being, all this slandering of the mens movement is pretty outlandish, when you look at feminism’s track record.

If there is an abusers lobby its feminism, if there is a lobby for equal rights and treatment for abusers and victims, its the mens movement.

Lauralot
10 years ago

I don’t recall the feminist rallies for Andrea Yates. Probably because they didn’t happen.