In June, a man named Thomas Ball took his own life – literally lighting himself ablaze – outside of a Keane, New Hampshire courthouse. He left behind a manifesto protesting his treatment by the family court.
But Ball wanted to do more than protest what he felt were injustices against men. He hoped to inspire other men to take the law into their own hands; in his words “we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses.”
He wasn’t speaking figuratively: he was talking about real violence.
[T]he dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. … Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. … And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out. …
Ball went on to offer specific advice on how to construct the most effective Molotov cocktails to lob at courthouses and police stations.
Nor did he seem overly concerned that people would be killed:
There will be some casualties in this war. Some killed, some wounded, some captured. Some of them will be theirs. Some of the casualties will be ours. …
I only managed to get the main door of the Cheshire County Courthouse in Keene, NH. I would appreciate it if some of you boys would finish the job for me.
Ball has been treated as a martyr by many Men’s Right’s Activists online; his manifesto – including those parts that explicitly call for terrorism – has been reposted on a number of MRA sites.
Why am I bringing up Ball? This is why:
On Tuesday, an Arkansas man reportedly entered the office of the judge that had presided over his divorce and custody hearings, and opened fire with a semiautomatic rifle. Amazingly, no one died as a result of his rampage, aside from the gunman himself, James Ray Palmer, who was taken down by police in a gun battle outside the courthouse, according to news accounts. The judge, fortunately, was not there, and the gunman’s rifle apparently jammed. Before heading to the courthouse, authorities say, Palmer set his own home on fire with timed incendiary devices.
Was Palmer inspired directly by Ball’s manifesto? We don’t know. The judge in this case was by no means the first to be targeted by a man angry at the outcome of his divorce or custody case. Judges were receiving death threats – and in some cases actually being murdered – long before there was such a thing as the Men’s Rights movement online.
But talk of violence is common on Men’s Rights sites. Opponents of the Men’s Rights movement are denounced as “collaborators,” while others talk plainly about fighting a “war” against feminism. Angry Harry, a British MRA revered by many of his ideological compatriots on this side of the pond, has offered an explicit apologia for violence against family court judges.
Even if Palmer himself was not directly influenced by the MRM online—as of yet, we don’t know — it is only a matter of time until some unbalanced person steeped in the violent rhetoric of the MRM online decides to “finish the job” started by Thomas Ball. It is only a matter of time until those espousing such rhetoric have real blood on their hands.
If the MRM truly aspires to be a real civil rights movement, rather than a reactionary hate sect more redolent of the KKK than of MLK, moderate MRAs need to step up and speak out against the bullies and the would-be warriors. They need to stop canonizing violent-minded men like Ball. They need to make clear that violent rhetoric – not to mention specific threats or calls to terrorism – have no place in the movement.
Do I expect this to happen? No. I think instead we will get more excuses, more evasions, more apologias for violence — and more threatening talk.
Post partum psychosis and post partum depression are two different things.
Hey guys, remember all those convoluted feminist studies and murder advocates that made sure Casey Anthony was found not guilty? Yeah, those were some good times for all those abusers lobbying feminist terrorists.
Lauralot
NOW Helps Mom Charged in Drownings
By Pam Easton
Associated Press Writer
Monday, Aug. 27, 2001; 4:12 p.m. EDT
HOUSTON –– The National Organization for Women and other groups said Monday they are helping to raise money to defend Andrea Yates – the mother accused of drowning her five children in the bathtub – in part to help other women suffering from postpartum depression.
“It gives us a platform for something that obviously needs education,” said Deborah Bell, president of Texas NOW. “One of our feminist beliefs is to be there for other women. Some good may come out of this tragedy.”
The groups also oppose the death penalty for Yates, saying her depression should be taken into account in any punishment.
Yates, 37, called police on June 20 and admitted drowning her children in the tub. Her husband, Russell Yates, told police his wife was depressed and had been treated for postpartum depression. She is under suicide watch in a jail psychiatric unit.
NOW was joined on Monday by the American Civil Liberties Union, other women’s and health groups and several anti-death penalty organizations.
“Addressing violence with more violence creates more suffering, grief and victims,” said Gary Norman of the Murder Victims Families for Reconciliation. “Let us end this suffering and treat Mrs. Yates’ illness and not allow ourselves to continue the perpetuation of pain.”
Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal has said he will seek the death penalty.
NOW and the other groups in the Andrea Pia Yates Support Coalition plan a candlelight vigil on Sept. 11, a day before a hearing is scheduled to determine if Yates is fit to stand trial.
The defense fund was previously established by Yates’ lawyers, but they cannot publicize it because of a court-imposed gag order.
Any money raised on Yates’ behalf but not needed for her defense will go to groups working to educate and help others suffering from postpartum depression, coalition members said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010827/aponline161254_000.htm
For people that behave like you know it all, you are very short on facts about this stuff.
Raising money for a defense fund =/= excusing what Yates did. She had a pretty clear mental illness, and increased awareness of post partum depression and psychosis will probably help prevent something like this from happening again.
“For people that behave like you know it all, you are very short on facts about this stuff.”
Projection, much?
You’re still claiming that all feminists everywhere are out to protect any woman who murders a child or a man. That didn’t happen for Casey Anthony, it didn’t happen for Genene Jones, and it has happened for dozens of others.
And NOW doesn’t speak for all feminists. They protested American Psycho, for example. I love American Psycho and I think the arguments against publishing it are laughable.
Hasn’t happened, damn it. Also, everything Kathleen said. When someone who commits a murder has a very well documented history of mental breakdowns and hospitalizations, it’s understandable why a group might advocate for that person to receive treatment instead of the death penalty. And I’d say that for a man as well as a woman.
I love how Catalogue has NEVER, NOT ONCE, said “Murder is bad.” (Even though we have several posters here who are willing to say that vandalism is bad, even when it doesn’t kill people.) How about it, Catalogue? What are your feelings about the Palmer shooting? Is it a bad thing, in your opinion, to shoot up a courthouse?
Just curious Catalogue, but do you know what happens when a person is found not guilty by reason of insanity (which is what Yates defense was)? The defendent who sucessfully pleads not guilty by reason of insanity is institutionalized in a mental instituion. She is kept in until she is either no longer “a danger to herself or others” or “cured of the underlying disorder” (depending on the jurisdiction). As a practical matter, defendents who sucessfully run an insanity defense do not end up spending less time on average locked up away from society than those who are found guilty (in states with a “cured” standard, this is an effective life sentence for many defendents). A plea of not guilty by reason of insanity is by no means a get out of jail free card. Shit, any criminal lawyer can tell you as much in an instant (in reality, it is a very rare plea).
Whats really funny is how you all rallied round agreeing that the men’s movement are violent and should talk responsibility for these people that are not connected to them, but when confronted with the reality and actual policy that indicates that they abusers lobby is feminism, and that feminism has been systematically protecting abusers and invalidating victims for decades now and that feminism is implicated in actual organised terrorism you will all deny deny deny.
One standard for your group and a different one entirely for the mens movement.
When you do that you uphold patriarchy and gender role police you know, its also funny that feminists don’t realize that they are ones boxing women off as pure and passive and acted upon and men as sinister and acting … which is the essence of this blog really. Sexism and double standards.
Ok my friend is here.
Bye x
Instead, we’re kind of playing on the field he provided here. Go on, Catalogue, here’s a simpler version of the Manboobz challenge, just for you: Is what Palmer did OK?
…
You’ll have to read the OP first though, I understand that might be a bit of a challenge.
Yes Dark side cat I know that. Women that murder need help men that do are monsters, according to feminism, and traditionalism.
Feminists are actually much more Conservative and into gender boxes than they are aware of.
Now I have to go this time.
Of course what Palmer did is okay. He’s a man, and Catalogue hasn’t bothered to read the details. And the fact that his wife divorced him in the place because he was abusive? Clearly just a lie made up by the female abusers lobby.
Catalogue: Wow, you’re just a spinning vortex of stupidity and mansplaining. Just because you think something (feminism excuses abuse, feminists are all terrorists, etc) doesn’t make it true. And since you’ve consistently refused to provide sources that actually prove what you say they prove, I’m going to assume from here on in that you’re full of shit.
Lol, because feminism and traditionalism just go together like peanut butter and jelly.
Oh wait, like potassium and water.
“Conservative and into gender boxes?” Yeah, that’s why we fight for reproductive rights, and the ability to wear what we want without being branded as sluts and told we’re asking for it if we’re raped. And I’m sure Ozy’s into feminism for our gender boxes, right?
Excuse you but why is it it “inevitable?”
Also, why are you not clearly stating “anyone who uses violence or calls for violence to advance the men’s rights movement or cause is wrong and here are several other people in the movement who agree with me” *followed by links.*
This really is not a difficult request.
Remember somewhere upthread when he told us he’d provide links to MRM sites denouncing violence?
Still waiting.
Lauralot: I’m still waiting for him to provide links showing the feminist terrorist groups exists and that feminism excuses abuse and murder. We might be waiting awhile.
Apparently saying that the mentally ill ought to receive mental treatment is excusing murder.
The more you know!
He can never provide links to any nonviolent MRA blogs. Those are things that simply do not exist. He is a shill for the Abuser’s Lobby like most MRAs.
Actually, an interesting phenomenon, related to feminists’ tolerance for violent rhetoric, happened on this very thread. When Francios Trembeley or whoever the fuck upthread called for violence against masculinists, he/she was told to GTFO and STFU by no fewer than 6 people including myself, in rather short order, before being banned by David. How many upvotes does Peter Andrew Nolan (fuck his little name add-ons) gets when he calls for feminists to be killed? Has any MRA ever disagreed with him? How many MRAs celebrate people like Ball and Palmer?
Catalogue, you say that Dave singles out the nutty fringe of the MRM for ridicule. Frankly, from what I’ve seen, it’s all nutty fringe.
When you do that you uphold patriarchy and gender role police you know, its also funny that feminists don’t realize that they are ones boxing women off as pure and passive and acted upon and men as sinister and acting
Um.. Catalogue… *raps glass*
I dun think feminists are the ones saying that women are pure and passive… xD
@Rutee you don’t have to, just look at his blog… he alrdy knows about it and seems quite happy xD
So Catalog is a complete abuse denier and liar, such a surprise. I looked at his blog in greater depth than he has ever looked at anything. He hates anyone who brings abusers to justice, like many MRAs.
MRAs will not be happy until they are allowed to beat and murder with impunity. They get very angry when reminded that society is not necessarily on board with that.
CB: Yeah, I was one of those… perhaps because I am one of the people here who knows what untrammeled violence looks like.
But Catalogue hasright on his side or some such shit.
That, and an unwillingness to own his words.
Because no famous male violent offender has ever had a sucessful insanity plea. It isn’t like some guy literally shot the president and was found not guilty by reason of insanity, right? Oh, wait…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckley,_Jr.