I’ll give Sofia, the antifeminist bloggress behind the blog Sofiastry, credit for one thing: unlike a lot of Men’s Rightsers, she doesn’t deny that there is a wage gap between men and women. She just thinks that it’s justified – that women should be paid less.
Why? Well, I admit I don’t quite understand her explanation, which has something to do with women getting worse grades in school, working less, and, well, whatever the hell she’s trying to say here:
women who are likely seen in executive and higher-earning positions are estrogenically flawed in their lack of sufficient desire to prioritize family life. Its the equivalent of a man who has no creative, intellectual or ambitious drive — all hallmarks of testosterone.
Oh, and because, like Barbie, women think that math class is tough:
can it not simply be reduced to the fact that the average man has more of of an aptitude for finance and numbers than the average woman?
No, I’m pretty sure it can’t.
In a followup post, Sofia raised a critical issue that she somehow had overlooked in her earlier analysis: women are a bunch of blubbering crybabies.
I couldn’t count on one hand the number of times a female co-worker cried on the job (myself included), but I couldn’t name a single male (homosexuals excluded & even then…). Women are more emotional, more likely to take days off for such reasons (or no reason) and quantifiably put in less hours on the job. Depending on the field, I’d also wager that women are less likely to revolutionize an industry or make the same amount of exceptional contributions men do.
Seriously, gal. Don’t be a bunch of Lady-Boehners. Stop all of your sobbing! (Oh, oh oh.)
Hengist: cynickal: You’re kinda like the slow-witted cousin of the Manboobz family, aren’t you? And for the record, my father wasn’t perfect but he did his damnedest to provide for his family and make sure we never lacked anything. Don’t talk shit about things you know nothing about, or project your own baggage onto other people.
Beams, motes.
Rutee, calling me “vile little fucker” or “twisted woman hater” or some variation thereof is old at this point. Get creative!
Anyway, my response, from Webster:
Definition of MISANDRY
: a hatred of men
As you can see, this has nothing to do with whatever bullshit about “systematic harm” you’re going on about, which sounds suspiciously similar to the long-debunked “men can’t experience sexism” crap. Thus, you are categorically and factually incorrect, because it doesn’t matter whether there are large-scale societal consequences.
Hengist, two observations:
1. It’s not all about your father and his family. Your experience and your subjective evaluation of it isn’t determinative of other people’s.
2. It’s truly heart-warming that your father did “his damnedest” (only his subjective damnedest, not the objective damnedest) and how he wasn’t perfect, but you still consider him a hero despite those flaws. Did your mother enjoy a similarly lenient standard? Do women in your life? Or are they expected to meet some insane standard of perfection, like taking care of others 24/7 with no weekends or holidays? Being full-time mothers AND wage-earners, while the men’s obligations to their family are considered discharged merely by having a job, and playing with the kiddies once a week is pure gravy? (Sorry to pry, but hey, you brought it up.)
“Yet another hysterical male unable to deal with his emotions in a constructive and positive manner.
“This is why you’ll never be successful.”
XD
@Lauralot: Yeah, this was at an art school here in DC. Probably not the world’s best example but the first one I remembered that I’ve actually got wage confirmation for.
What are you blathering about MRAL-men can to experience sexism (in the workplace.) I can point to one example off the top of my head: nursing.
Shorter Sofia: “I hate myself and I’ll tell any and all lies necessary until every other woman hates herself, as well!”
Good luck with that Sofia. 🙂
“women are lazy, arrogant couch potatoes who often sit around and expect things to come to them because of their vagina.”
You guys, I must be broken. My vagina signals are being ignored as I sit here, and when I cry, I don’t get anything, even though I have a vagina! The horror!!! Whatever shall I do?
Well, Rutee, that’s fair enough, but then I’m not “willing to discard” the assumption that women are lazy, arrogant couch potatoes who often sit around and expect things to come to them because of their vagina.
If I remember my troll bios correctly, this is coming from a college kid with a part-time summer job and a working mom who singlehandedly supports him.
You really need to show your mother this stuff you’re writing, MRAL. It’s not cool and it’s not healthy.
MRAL, my life would be a lot fucking easier if my vagina got everything I wanted. I wouldn’t have to be employed full time, or look for work, or clean my house, or *anything*. Instead I have to like, actually get off my own ass, like you do, and be responsible.
Though no wonder you’re bitter. You think everyone with a vagina is independently wealthy, with a small group of manginas who bring them everything they could desire.
MRAL, from now on I’m gonna call you MRAWombTurd since that’s what you are.
I agree with the poster who asked if your mother knows the kind of misogynistic crap you spew on the internet.
Or, as I used to hear in my youth: “do you kiss your mother with that mouth?”
BTW, how do we know that MRAL has a single mom? None of the stuff I’ve read has him even mentioning his home life. 😛
He’s mentioned it previously. Can’t remember which thread, but it’s somewhere.
MRAL
1) Good luck with the “womb turds” thing. My guess is that it’s not going to prove to be a winner, b/c while it may shut women up, at least temporarily, it’s not guaranteed to have the same effect on men. Most men are going to remember, given time, that once upon a time they were womb turds too. (I could be wrong about this, but it doubt it.)
2) “It doesn’t matter if there are large-scale societal consequences”–good luck with that one as well. On what lovely planet does it not matter if there are large-scale societal consequences to anything, anything you want to name, whether it’s what we happen to be talking about now or something else? Like, say, whether or not people eat too much pizza.* If people suddenly started to eat way too much pizza, there would be societal consequences to that, and if it were a trend that got a good head of steam behind it the consequences would be consequences on a large scale, which is to say that they would end up affecting a lot of lives, with the result that they would have to be recognized and dealt with** even if most of those whose lives they affected devoutly believed they had better things to do.
*just an illustration
**or dismissed as inevitable, which strikes me as being Sofia’s game. (How like a woman to devote so much effort to accomplishing Nothing.) Still, dismissing societal consequences, especially large-scale ones, does not make the consequences go away. If you want to object that “But so far as I’m concerned the consequences are good ones”, bear in mind that the larger the scale of the consequences the more likely they are to have different kinds of effects, not just stronger effects, and that some of these kinds of effects may be effects you did not count on and for which you do not care.
Technically my vagina did get me a job. The art department needed more female models. And I do get to sit around to earn money in that position…my god, what have I become? WHAT HAVE I BECOME?
Have I ever cared what you think of me? Nope! Whereas your previous posts, as well as your rather transparent aping of my diction in giving tips to the recent trolls, indicate the reverse does not hold true.
Yeah… I’m not going to help you play a shell game wherein you hold actions against men to a lesser standard than those against women. I reserve misogynistic for cases where ideas that actually disadvantage women. Sexist is used in other circumstances, regardless of gender.
Sexism does hurt some men. But it benefits substantially more, and even those men it hurts still reap substantial benefits. About the only way to be an outright loser due to gender is to straight up become a housedad, at which point you take shit and get nothing back.
Great, Rutee, then have fun with your made-up definitions for “misogyny” and “misandry”. As long as you know they’re made up.
I like how you can’t actually substantiate that men are the ones who suffer from sexism, that women benefit. You seem to be aware of this, but are unwilling to concede the point. IS that why you consider it ‘activism’ to slam women? Because you know there’s not really a massive matriarchy to fight? Because there’s still useful work you can do without benefiting women too much, if you go help male survivors of DV or rape.
“women who are likely seen in executive and higher-earning positions are estrogenically flawed in their lack of sufficient desire to prioritize family life. Its the equivalent of a man who has no creative, intellectual or ambitious drive — all hallmarks of testosterone.”
Has testosterone been scientifically linked with creativity and intellect? I thought it was the exact opposite.
[stuff removed by DF]
I love how lawyer is sofia’s targeted career, considering it is a highly male dominated field, with astronomically high rates of depression, suicide, and substance abuse.
That’s not the debate. You and I do not agree regarding who suffers the most from sexism, and never will, so I’m not interested in arguing about that. I’m just trying to establish that you’re using the incorrect definition of misogyny and misandry.
MRAL But you don’t use misandry to mean hatred of men. You use it to complain about things you think disadvantage men.
So, pick one. If it’s hatred of men, then you have to show the actual hatred, the emotional aspect of despising them.
Thats a much higher burden of proof than the one Rutee used. If I were you, I’d use hers.
Do you really want to open that can of worms, Pecunium? How often do feminists use the word “misogyny” to refer to anything from pro-lifers to street harassment to men looking at women the wrong way? You can use Rutee’s way out-there definition, or you can take contempt and prejudice to be a form of hatred (which I think it is).
Just a few points which I’m sure I’ll be wrong about.
First, neither maternal, nor paternal leave should ever be “paid leave.” This is a money drain on any/every company that is forced to comply. This is another example of communism/socialism which is unsustainable. Wealth is taken from employees, placed into a fund, then doled out according to State dictates. Freedom doesn’t come with a safety net, nor should it. And no one should be forced to pay for that safety net. Everyone loses from these socialist policies.
Second, if men are working more hours, of course they’ll earn more in pay alone. This also demonstrates initiative and loyalty to a company which will of course translate into a higher hourly wage. Further, no one has mentioned the “quality” of work being performed. Two people doing the same job won’t necessarily translate into the same pay if one person does a higher quality work. Again we can see the communism/socialism in the same work/same pay mentality. If everyone is guarunteed the same pay reguardless of effort, why put forth anything but minimul effort.
Third, and equally important, women leaving the workplace to raise children is most definitely a welcome break from the rat race. There is no place like home. Even when you return from a vacation, your first words are usually, “it’s good to be home.” I doubt if thruout history, there were many people at deaths door wishing they’d spent more time at work.
I would bet real money this is an MRA in female garb.