I’ll give Sofia, the antifeminist bloggress behind the blog Sofiastry, credit for one thing: unlike a lot of Men’s Rightsers, she doesn’t deny that there is a wage gap between men and women. She just thinks that it’s justified – that women should be paid less.
Why? Well, I admit I don’t quite understand her explanation, which has something to do with women getting worse grades in school, working less, and, well, whatever the hell she’s trying to say here:
women who are likely seen in executive and higher-earning positions are estrogenically flawed in their lack of sufficient desire to prioritize family life. Its the equivalent of a man who has no creative, intellectual or ambitious drive — all hallmarks of testosterone.
Oh, and because, like Barbie, women think that math class is tough:
can it not simply be reduced to the fact that the average man has more of of an aptitude for finance and numbers than the average woman?
No, I’m pretty sure it can’t.
In a followup post, Sofia raised a critical issue that she somehow had overlooked in her earlier analysis: women are a bunch of blubbering crybabies.
I couldn’t count on one hand the number of times a female co-worker cried on the job (myself included), but I couldn’t name a single male (homosexuals excluded & even then…). Women are more emotional, more likely to take days off for such reasons (or no reason) and quantifiably put in less hours on the job. Depending on the field, I’d also wager that women are less likely to revolutionize an industry or make the same amount of exceptional contributions men do.
Seriously, gal. Don’t be a bunch of Lady-Boehners. Stop all of your sobbing! (Oh, oh oh.)
poster,
it is supported when you isolate things like hours worked for example.
And what about people paid on salary, not by hours?
Over the first fifteen years of their careers, women work fewer hours than men, 52 per week versus 58.
Sounds to me like women are BETTER and more efficient at their jobs than men.
Or that the men are generally stupider, volunteering an extra 6 uncompensated hours per week. OF COURSE employers prefer the men.
holly,
sure, it can be interpreted that way. i think people are interpreting what i’m saying to mean women belong in the kitchen. meanwhile, i’m pursuing a degree in the hopes of landing a career. like i said, it’s not that simple. i think often women feel they have to prioritize one over the other to be successful (which is true when you’re talking of relative status to men). so, it turns out, a v. unhappy demographic are professional women who might be sacrificing families that they might actually want to have.
laura,
no, i mean, when you invest more hours into a job (even if it’s salaried), you’re probably going to have higher output and produce more.
TMI time!
I am, in fact, estrogenically flawed. Literally. I have polycystic ovaries and I do, literally, have more testosterone than a typical female. I don’t menstruate, I have all my fat on my belly and almost none on my breasts or hips, and I don’t want to get too into hair issues but yeah there are some.
Does this make me a bad or broken person? Does this mean that my career choices are invalid, or are necessarily caused by my hormones? Does this mean that my family choices (not particularly wanting one) are invalid?
What if someone is estrogenically flawed–what moral judgements does that give you the right to make?
no, of course i don’t think it makes you a bad person. but in the contest of my phrase “estrogenically flawed” i do believe v. successful women in professional fields are generally less feminine. do i personally care? no. i myself am probably less feminine by virtue of simply being educated and vocal.
i do believe v. successful women in professional fields are generally less feminine. do i personally care? no. i myself am probably less feminine by virtue of simply being educated and vocal.
depends on how you define feminine, I guess.
But if you profess to not care, why do you keep saying it?
Hengist – I have to confess I don’t understand this, and it does come up a lot in wage gap discussions. If you take time off, you won’t be paid for it. Are you saying that women should get more paid leave, aka get paid as much as men for working less?
Ideally, I’d like to see men and women take the same amount of leave and make it a moot point.
Maternity leave is already paid; my concern is that women are passed over for hiring, raises, or promotion because they take that leave (or even because their employer thinks they’re likely to take it). While I’d like there to be safeguards against this, I realize that it’s not quite logical to treat someone who wasn’t present as if they were, so I think the only real long-term solutions are paternity leave, fathers with the ability and social approval to take off work for a sick kid while the mom works, and widely available cheap childcare and after-school programs.
The Lady-Boehners is now going to be the name of my band once I learn to play a musical instrument (if I can find the time between crying and having babies).
i’m saying it because i think being feminine is one factor in making less. not only in prioritizing family/personal time, but also in being less vocal. i don’t think women face as much discrimination as much as people say we do.
I’m amazed that I have to actually explain this, but here we go. Women perform the lion’s share of child-rearing because that is the cultural norm. There is a solution to this issue, and that is to shift cultural expectations regarding child-rearing so that men are expected to perform the same amount of work that women are. (And to head off any more inane objections by Sofia, obviously I’m referring to all of the work that goes into it after the child is born)
Trying to tie wage discrepancies to crying at work is just stupid.
Interesting…
From sofia’s linked Forbes article (an editorial, so it’s soft on numbers)
Her citations don’t support her thesis.
Hopefuly she won’t starti bawling her eyes out when she reads this…
right, like i said, it’s an issue that should be discussed with your partner if you feel strongly about it. we differ about trying to contrivedly popularize those norms.
it’s not stupid. women crying more at work is indicative of a larger pattern of women bringing more of the personal into work, and taking time off of work for the same reasons.
cynickal,
huh? that absolutely supports what i’m saying. men have more liberty to earn less without children, i don’t know if they do. it’s a speculative statement.
Really? I mean, you consider the definition of feminie to be so narrow that you truly consider yourself to be less feminine by virtue of your education and outspokenness? Truly?
If you really believe that, what do you think about being “less feminine” as a result of being educated and “vocal”? Do you feel any particular way about it?
Typo: “…the definition of feminine…”
Holly – ok, that makes sense and I agree.
Sofia – “i’m saying it because i think being feminine is one factor in making less. not only in prioritizing family/personal time, but also in being less vocal.” Yeah, I remember reading somewhere that one reason for women earning less is they’re not as aggressive in chasing raises and promotions. Not sure how you’d legislate against that, though.
nobinayama,
yes, i do think i’m relatively less feminine than a lot of girls. i don’t feel any particular way about it. it’s not something i can really control. i think i probably lie averagely on the spectrum. it’s like asking someone how they feel about having average IQ. probably neutral.
I’m pretty sure women cry more outside of work too. Women cry more than men. Know why? Because women are allowed to cry more. It has nothing to do with “bringing the personal,” or else all those women crying outside of work are bringing their personal lives…into…their…personal lives?
Besides, how do you know women who cry at work aren’t crying because of work? I feel so frustrated at work that I want to cry from time to time. Occasionally, it even spills over into actual crying. Fortunately, my workplace has this amazing room, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen one, where I can go for a few minutes of privacy, and it even has running water so I can wash my face and put myself back together afterward! Amazing! A spot of tears doesn’t have to negatively impacy my workday at all!
Hours simply does not equal productivity. It just doesn’t. I’ve known many a man who comes to work late, takes more than his hour for lunch, and then moans and whines about how late he’s going to have to stay that night and many a woman who comes in on time, eats lunch at her desk, and hurries to get everything that needs to be done that day actually done that day. Women are more likely to try to leave on time so they can get home for their second shift? Well that sounds more likely to me than “Men are more productive because they spend more time in the office.”
*impact
Stupid failure to proofread. I was just being such an energetic go-getter at making that post.
“it’s not stupid. women crying more at work is indicative of a larger pattern of women bringing more of the personal into work, and taking time off of work for the same reasons.”
I don’t know, I think both men and women deal with emotional issues on an equal basis, men are just socially conditioned not to show it outwardly. They keep it all in and channel it into becoming workaholics and getting ulcers.
it’s not stupid. women crying more at work is indicative of a larger pattern of women bringing more of the personal into work,
Obviously, you haven’t spent much time in the workplace if you think men bring less of their personal lives into work.
If anything, I would argue that men bring MORE of their personal lives into work. I had a boss once who spent 20% of his work week trying to juggle his wife and his mistress. WHILE ignoring his kids.
The thing is, sofia, you don’t seem to feel neutral. You’re blogging about this issue; you’ve shown up in the threads to defend your post. You used the word “mendacious.” Your avatar is conspicuously, visually feminine.
You seem fairly invested in creating, what I believe, is a false dichotomy between the idea of feminine and the concepts of “driven” and/or educated and vocal. You declare women who are successful in professional careers (though you don’t indicate what type of professional careers) to be less feminine.
I consider myself to be well educated, quite driven, and absurdly outspoken. I just don’t think these qualities render me any more or less feminine as they have nothing to do with femininity.
But then, of course, we are likely working from two very different ideas of what femininity is.
Perhaps you can provide some clarification?