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antifeminism antifeminst women misogyny MRA reactionary bullshit

Stop your sobbing (or expect to get paid less, ladies)

Quit it with the waterworks, lady!

I’ll give Sofia, the antifeminist bloggress behind the blog Sofiastry, credit for one thing: unlike a lot of Men’s Rightsers, she doesn’t deny that there is a wage gap between men and women. She just thinks that it’s justified – that women should be paid less.

Why? Well, I admit I don’t quite understand her explanation, which has something to do with women getting worse grades in school, working less, and, well, whatever the hell she’s trying to say here:

women who are likely seen in executive and higher-earning positions are estrogenically flawed in their lack of sufficient desire to prioritize family life. Its the equivalent of a man who has no creative, intellectual or ambitious drive — all hallmarks of testosterone.

Oh, and because, like Barbie, women think that math class is tough:

can it not simply be reduced to the fact that the average man has more of of an aptitude for finance and numbers than the average woman?

No, I’m pretty sure it can’t.

In a followup post, Sofia raised a critical issue that she somehow had overlooked in her earlier analysis: women are a bunch of blubbering crybabies.

I couldn’t count on one hand the number of times a female co-worker cried on the job (myself included), but I couldn’t name a single male (homosexuals excluded & even then…). Women are more emotional, more likely to take days off for such reasons (or no reason) and quantifiably put in less hours on the job. Depending on the field, I’d also wager that women are less likely to revolutionize an industry or make the same amount of exceptional contributions men do.

Seriously, gal. Don’t be a bunch of Lady-Boehners. Stop all of your sobbing! (Oh, oh oh.)

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stonerwithaboner
9 years ago

David,

I noticed you used the kid gloves on this one even though Sophia is hostile to your ideology. Could it be because she is a girl and you didn’t want anyone saying you are a bully…

Oh, wait, we’ll make it cutesy-wootesey for teh interwebz “Bully TM.”

Well aren’t you turning your back on Feminist who fought for things like women being able to fight in front line combat roles????

I’d love to see your response, if you have one…..

katz
9 years ago

It’s hard to respond to an incoherent question, stonerwhoisobviouslyMRAL.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

People who don’t advocate death and enslavement tend to get treated with kiddie gloves relative to the truly vile fuckers.

katz
9 years ago

Actually check that, he has his own blog. So we’ll call him an MRALike.

stonerwithaboner
9 years ago

I don’t know what an MRAL is…..

more acronyms in the blogosphere than in IT…..

as for Sophia, never seen her advocate death and enslavement but I have seen her advocate Eugenics and I disagreed with her on that post…..

http://sofiastry.wordpress.com/2011/03/18/the-case-for-eugenics/

stonerwithaboner
9 years ago

here’s another discussion about the wealth gap, more nuanced…..

http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2011/09/10/%E2%80%98wealth-gap%E2%80%99-observations-noh/

for the record misogyny can and does exist….

for the record misandry can and does exist….

Molly Ren
9 years ago

“It’s hard to respond to an incoherent question, stonerwhoisobviouslyMRAL.”

Dare I ask if he’s posting high?

Stoner wrote: “as for Sophia, never seen her advocate death and enslavement but I have seen her advocate Eugenics and I disagreed with her on that post…..”

Well, I’m glad you at least disagree with her on *that*!

stonerwithaboner
9 years ago

As a Feminist will stand up for the right of bodily autonomy in regards to abortion, I will stand up for the right to use intoxicating substances in a way that putts no one else’s safety in harms way.

I was asking Mr. Manboobz if he treaded lightly because Sophia is female….

Molly Ren
9 years ago

stonerwithaboner, all we ask is that you post coherently.

What do you mean by “lightly”? I think we were battling with her for a bit in the comments upthread before the more off-topic trolls rolled in.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

stonerwithaboner, I think it’s pretty clear that we established that she’s a bloviating twit with little to no experience regarding how the world works. I’m not sure how you got that she was treated with kid gloves.

felixBC
felixBC
9 years ago

I think SWAB would like you to call Sofia a sad little man, a whiny titty baby, a mamma’s boy, and an asshole. Just to be equitable.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Stoner: do you have a point? Because the entire draft issue was beaten to death in the Dudes Republic of China threads (697 comments, go to town).

Do try to keep up.

Spearhafoc
9 years ago

I see the DC reboot has reached MBZ too and MRAL is back to his old self but w/ a new edgier costume.

Still worth it for Action Comics, Batwoman and Demon Knights.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

The draft isn’t an issue for Meriken men anymore. It’s the modern era, we’re the biggest economy, we have nukes, and we don’t substantively support our imperialistic wars anymore. Do go read that thread, because otherwise I’m just going to have to c/p what I wrote on the draft here, but seriously, it’s a waste of time to talk about as if it actually continued to hurt men in Merika. No one is going to be drafted in developed states until technology that neutralizes nukes is invented.

I don’t think there are many developed nations at all that could conceivably HAVE to worry about a draft until WMDs are erased. Japan I guess?

Conscription is an ongoing issue in developed nations, but a number of them are either removing conscription, or making it gender neutral (Like Israel’s).

for the record misandry can and does exist….

About the only misandristic thing that doesn’t also benefit men is the draft (Because peacetime conscription *also* includes benefits). And the draft is a total nonissue in any state that is ultimately protected by nukes.

http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2011/09/10/%E2%80%98wealth-gap%E2%80%99-observations-noh/

It’s idiotic biological essentialism, trying to desperately hide the fact that there’s precious little evidence for most of it.

The wealth gap by itself isn’t actually evidence of it; in the face of the hiring, wage, promotion, and employment gaps though? Yeah, it is. You’re idiotic website is just incapable of grasping context, and seems to think it can make statements about single parts without engaging the whole. Shit, son;

Would not a fair assessment of the impact of divorce need to include an analysis of the extent to which a woman’s economic status is improved by marriage, and how women’s economic status as divorcees are affected by the way childcare was handled during their marriages, and the way child custody is handled after divorce?

Taking care of the kids is almost always her responsibility. Even you idiots recognize this, you just don’t understand the damage done to one’s career by it, apparently, and why that would hurt her economically in the event of a divorce.

Brandon
Brandon
9 years ago

Women under 30 without children are earning more than men. Or are you going to say TIME magazine is a tabloid?

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

Molly Ren
9 years ago

I think “without children” is the relevant part of that, Brandon.

Brandon
Brandon
9 years ago

@Molly: So why are you blaming men or hiring discrimination when the variable that makes the difference is children?

Flib
Flib
9 years ago

Brandon, I don’t think you’ve figured it out yet. It’s not men being blamed, it’s a social structure and prevailing attitude that exists that favors white men.

Keep in mind, one study is not going to indicate the full trend. More studies are needed to confirm. But additional to that, there are some methodological issues that I am unable to get information out of James Chung’s study. Specifically, are they comparing college educated childless women to all men? Or even just women without children to all men? Rather then say, women without children to men without children? They don’t go into details of their variables.

Additional things to consider. His cited IV’s (and indicators of his data set, since I don’t know where I can get full access to the study) are

1 Local industries/businesses that are knowledge-based (New York City and Los Angeles)
2 Declining industries in smaller manufacturing towns (Erie, PA and Terre Haute, IN)
3 Cities in which minorities make up more than half the population (Miami, FL and Monroe, LA)

1. I can see, though I wouldn’t consider it statistically significant based on previous data. Knowledge based work can show some relevance, and may get more important as time goes on and we have greater numbers of women graduating college and beyond. It’d just be indicative of the market in knowledge based careers that require some level of education.

2. This has been a problem for a long time. De-industrialization has hurt minority men more then anyone in terms of jobs (See: Detroit as another example).

3. Again, another attempt at correlating the levels of education along with many minority issues to job success. It is a fact that minority men face a very tough market right now. Women of several minority groups have a higher likelihood to graduate college then men of those same groups (See, the compiled college study I linked awhile back).

I’ve said before, there are strong issues facing men. But these issues are intersected along race and class lines. The top is still strongly white men. Hence why I’d like to look at this studies methodology and data sets (I know where they came from, but I’d need to see what he chose to look at. Census data is massive).

Molly Ren
9 years ago

OMG, Brandon, you’ve solved the problem! Any woman with a baby should just chuck it out the window IMMEDIATELY! Then the wage gap will be CLOSED!

I dunno why we didn’t think of that before!

Pecunium
9 years ago

Brandon: The study doesn’t say what Time says it does.

Chung believes that women now may have enough leverage that their financial gains may not be completely erased as they get older.

Which would be the systemic issues being talked about.

And this comparison isn’t of like to like…

Chung also claims that, as far as women’s pay is concerned, not all cities are created equal. Having pulled data on 2,000 communities and cross-referenced the demographic information with the wage-gap figures, he found that the cities where women earned more than men had at least one of three characteristics. Some, like New York City or Los Angeles, had primary local industries that were knowledge-based. Others were manufacturing towns whose industries had shrunk, especially smaller ones like Erie, Pa., or Terre Haute, Ind. Still others, like Miami or Monroe, La., had a majority minority population. (Hispanic and black women are twice as likely to graduate from college as their male peers.)

So we see that the difference in the age cohorts is what’s being compared. Where one has men and women in direct competition (e.g. Silicon Valley) the women are still coming up short.

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