From time to time, something will happen on the Internet or in real life that I know I should write about for Man Boobz, but it’s so infuriating or depressing that I can’t bring myself to write about it. The recent bullshit on Reddit involving a young woman whose story of a sexual assault was met with angry disbelief until she provided video proof that her injuries were real is a perfect case in point.
Briefly, what happened is this:
A young woman posted about a sexual assault she’d endured a day or so earlier – a man had tried to rape her, pushing her to the ground and scraping her face on the pavement. In a separate topic she posted a picture of her injuries, most notably a giant scrape on her cheek. You can see it at right; click on the picture to see it full size.
Then another Redditor noticed that some time back, the same woman had posted a picture of herself in zombie makeup. This, he said, made him skeptical that her injuries were real — it was probably just a good makeup job.
That was all it took to send Reddit into a full internet lynch mob frenzy: obviously this woman was a liar and an attention whore and, even worse, possibly a feminist anti-rape activist! Redditors suddenly became both medical and makeup experts, and declared that the giant scrape on her face was obviously phony. (Not to me; I tried arguing with several of them to no avail.) It got ugly, very ugly, very quickly.
The woman at the heart of the storm asked if she needed to post an actual video of her cleaning the wound on her face to show that it was real; a redditor demanded that she do just that.
So she did. (Here it is.) Long story short: the scrape is real. The woman also posted a picture of the business card given to her by the police detective she’s spoken to when reporting the incident. It’s now pretty clear that there is no reason to doubt that her story is true. Even the Redditor who originally challenged her story realized that she was almost certainly telling the truth.
Here’s her post offering proof to back up her story.
At this point the lynch mob lost its steam; some people even apologized to her.
But the evidence of the ugliness remains in a host of different threads and different subforums on Reddit. I honestly don’t have the energy or the patience to sift through all of the ugliness; luckily, Jezebel has given a decent account of the whole spectacle; you can go there to get some more of the details.
You might also want to look in to the main thread where most of the ugliness occurred — though at this point many of the vile accusatory comments that got upvoted when everyone seemed to assume she was lying have been retroactively voted down. (The screenshot I posted above gives a better idea of what it looked like at the time; here’s another screenshot with some of the choicer comments.)
Naturally, Men’s Rightsers contributed to the ugliness – though most of the worst comments appeared outside of the Men’s Rights subreddit, and a surprising number of r/mr regulars refused to jump on the original “she’s a liar” bandwagon.
While many Men’s Rightsters are now apologetic, others still think she may be lying.
Here’s a good discussion of the whole thing in ShitRedditSays, and a followup.
So, produce the quotes.
Catalogue, here’s more
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men
Its in the dna here
See it her http://linearthinker.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/weighing-in-on-the-domestic-violence-debate-a-response-to-david-manboobz-futrelle/
or go to the rape meme on the Mens rights marmoset blog … see Dark Humor on NSWATM posts about male rape victims, where they are being educated in the comments section by MRAs
Abuse denial is in the DNA here, and in the overwhelming majority of feminist sites.
Produce the quotes, on this site, of posters denying the sexual abuse of men.
Dang, Nobinayamu, you’re so mean. Askin’ people for references and shit. That’s just more feminist abuse, right thar!
Anyhow, I’m out of here before the mobbing and fallacious argumentation starts.
Enjoy your egg.
Well documented? Ok. Care to share with the class?
Or must we assume you are just talking out your ass, in furtherance of a political agenda?
Catalogue, I WROTE A FUCKING POST partially inspired by the rape meme on the MRA Marmoset. And I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about about NSWATM.
Poll: who here thinks men can’t be abused or raped?
Ozymandias, how do you go to Hampshire and also maintain 2 blogs?
Here’s what I said in that debate catalogue cited to “prove” that abuse denial is “in the DNA” of this site:
http://manboobz.blogspot.com/p/not-so-great-debate-on-domestic.html
*hands decidedly not raised at all*
No, we don’t have to prove his stupid, unsubstantiated point wrong. Anybody who thought that shit would be mocked for their idiocy, same as any MRA. Substantiate your claim that we deny abuse, or go away, Catalogue.
That said:
I admit I might be blind, but having gone over this paper I can’t find that data listed in there.
So, I’m just going over the links provided, and I’m a little confused by the table on the second link. The feckblog post doesn’t mention who did the study, or which universities the students were from. “35 sites around the world.” Which ones?The table lists the differences in percentages between men and women in different rape circumstances, but doesn’t say if they are the victims or the perpetrators.
Also:
-forced vaginal sex: 2.1% (men) 1.6%(women)
I know I’m missing something here, because generally men don’t get raped in the vagina.
Jenn93, I’m guessing that means that the men were forced to have vaginal sex with a woman? This happens, though deplorably it’s played for laughs in movies (Isla Fisher rapes VInce Vaughan in Wedding Crashers) and I doubt it’s ever prosecuted unless it’s also statutory rape.
Ugh, this thread is depressing me. I need to go knit a corgi and go to bed.
Piggy:
Does anyone else read that parenthetical as having an implied “unlike hers” at the end?
Piggy:
Indeed there is.
Men should get the same treatment. I suspect men lie about being attacked slightly more often than women lie about being raped, but not enough to make the correct response to the claims different.
So the double standard isn’t “men’s stories are treated correctly, women’s are privileged,” it’s “women’s stories are treated properly, men’s are illegitimately doubted.”
Well, in the real world, both are illegitimately doubted, but the point is that men’s stories should be believed.
Catalogue:
In other words, there are no specific incidents, you just know it happens.
On your “Boob Roll”, manboobz.com offers viewers a link to a website called http://www.falserapesociety.com, right below Reddit:mensrights, if that should matter to anyone.
The answers to posters such as Amy Angelwings queries regarding stats in support of my allegations regarding women lying about rape, along with their repeated abuses of the law, should be available there, for anyone of good faith, who is prepared to acknowledge that just as (some) men rape, (some) women LIE, and lie and lie…
Let me assure my fans here that false accusation will shatter an innocent man’s life just as much as any act of rape or assault may shatter a woman’s, and if a woman is entitled to sympathy and public support before ALL of the pertinent facts are known, then so are men whose lives have been shattered, and who have been BRUTALLY VICTIMIZED by their accuser(s), and whose consequences will live on long after she retracts under questioning, the case is dismissed–as seems to be with DSK, who may have lost his chance of winning the Presidency of France because of Ms. Diallo’s perjury–and trying to live down the reputation of a sex offfender for the rest of his life!
C’mon, rapefighters, anyone for accessing falserapesociety.com and insisting on the same safeguards for men victims of false accusation, that youall insisted upon here for women victims?
Somehow I didn’t think so.
David Futrelle, I couldn’t care less if you “moderate” my posts, just as long as you spell my name correctly. As stated before, I nowhere slandered anybody, I used no profanity, I threatened nobody’s life, person, or property, and never encouraged anybody to do so. I certainly posted NOTHING that would expose you or your website to legal liability.
My posts are all as clean as a hound’s tooth, as truthful as can be, even if some of the people here in feminist la-la land imagine me as another George Bush II, as suggested by that truly revolting video, and you can moderate, ban, or anything else to your heart’s content. Meanwhile, tell some of YOUR fans to grow up!
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller
Don’t get me wrong, I know men can and are victims of rape. Actually, an old friend knew a boy who was forcibly raped by a woman, and described it to me in detail. It was really upsetting.
My point is that the post doesn’t clerify anything at all. It’s a bunch of numbers without any real sources or context.
What’s amusing (for values of amusing = sad) is that “date rape” is a lot more common among men then they like to admit.
Perineum:
She wanted to prove her case, obviously. She mentioned the incident on a subreddit and then posted a lot of comments trying to prove her case and even went so far as to post pictures and a video. She was invested in proving that she was sexually assaulted; I don’t care if anyone believes me. Why would I care what internet people think about my personal life?
Rape description itself isn’t political; the concept of rape is political and carries a lot of social weight. Thus, if a woman wanted to be nefarious, her false rape or false sexual assault allegation carries that much weight. A regular assault is not met with outrage or skepticism because of the nature of that crime. Rape/sexual assault is bifurcated in that way; but one extreme reaction to the act stems from its polar opposite.
Rutee:
1. Feminists have raised a fuss anytime anybody showed that Koss’ numbers were well off base. They accuse the people looking into these statistics of misogyny and woman-hating.
2. Feminists, at least the ones I’ve read, haven’t exactly made strong mention of the “new” rape statistics.
3. “1 in 4” is oft-cited by commentators who haven’t really read up on the issue. It’s at least worth mentioning that feminists don’t seem all too willing to step in to correct the narrative.
4. Even then, the terms “rape” and “sexual assault” are often juxtaposed; and even then, the behaviors that constitute those crimes are often hazily-defined.
Holly:
I’m as sympathetic as I can be for someone I don’t know whose story I read on the internet. My sympathy applies equally to men and women who are attacked for no reason. My main point is that there were legit reasons for people to question this woman’s account of her attack. She’d been associated with face painting and she’d been an anti-rape/feminist activist. When you combine that with the fact that a.) people lie and b.) the internet provides a veil whereby lying is even easier than IRL, then the general disbelief on the part of disbelieving redditers isn’t so far-fetched and does not necessarily indicate assholery.
No more mr. nice guy:
Online? I’d sort of have to accept it, wouldn’t I? What are my other options? You have to remember that this woman plead her case online – on Reddit. This isn’t a court of law and it’s not even real life discourse. It took place online where people lie about a lot of stuff and where people are apt to seek attention, vent, complain, etc. I reiterate, a lot of you are holding Reddit discourse to real world standards.
Jenn93:
Current girlfriend. And I don’t blame her for initially blaming me. I accepted that a jacked up grill (even from collateral fallout) was a function of my being out too late at night around drunk people. But, I ask, am I not engaging in (self) victim blaming?
But when I hear stories of women saying that they’ve been raped or sexually assaulted my first instinct is to initially discount it. I’ve known several women who’ve loosely made rape accusations that later turned out to be smoke. These women, former classmates or coworkers, would use the term to describe any half-shady sexual encounter. Another guy I went to school with actually went to county jail and almost went to court before his rape accuser dropped her false charge against him. A female co-worker got another co-worker fired on a bogus sexual assault claim.
So because of the heightened sensitivity that sexual assaults receive, they should be met with that much more caution. They carry a lot of weight which incentivizes a certain type of person to make those charges if they really want to be an asshole.
Also, some people are naturally skeptical of things that they hear, especially on the internet.
Hershele:
And on what basis do you stake your claim that men claim false assault more than women claim false rape/sexual assault?
Few more questions:
Which type of assault is easier to fake? Sexual or simple assault?
Which type of assault carries a harsher punishment upon conviction?
Which type of assault “benefits” from being designated political i.e. benefiting special-interest groups?
Which type of assault carries a greater social stigma?
*Even if* simple assault on men is faked more often than sexual assault on women, what is the outcome? A false simple assault claim probably does not cause much damage to the accused’s future prospects.
Piglet: So, you admit that she was assaulted, but her motive was poltical, she wanted to “prove her case.”
Do you wonder why people here don’t give you much benefit of the doubt?
So either this is a vast feminist conspiracy to keep male victims quiet, or male victims are keeping silent in droves. I’m more inclined to believe it’s the latter. Which is extremely depressing and wrong and needs to be fixed. But who can even blame them when they witness the way female rape victims are treated?
I actually clicked the link to the full study and found two interesting tidbits:
“There is some support for this feminist theory of sexual coercion. For example, adherence to traditional sex roles is related to the perpetration of sexual abuse by men (e.g., Koss,
Leonard, Beezley, & Oros, 1985; Muehlenhard & Linton,1987). People with more masculine identities are more likely to coerce sex, whereas those with more feminine identities
are more likely to be the victims of sexual coercion in romantic relationships (Poppen & Segal, 1988). Furthermore, Sanday (1981) found in her study of tribal societies that in
tribes where women were not allowed to participate in positions of power and their contributions to society were deemed as insignificant, the incidence of rape was high. However, in societies in which women were viewed as equal and there was essentially an equal balance of power and an appreciation of the contributions of women, rape was non-existent”
in other words, get rid of rigid sex roles and rape diminishes.
“That is, people with adversarial sexual beliefs may be more likely to commit sexual coercion in their romantic relationships.This notion is supported by research in the United States that shows that men who perpetrate sexual coercion against women believe that sexual relationships are deceptive, manipulative, and exploitative (Burt, 1980), and are expressing their hostility towards women (Brownmiller, 1976). Women who perpetrate sexual coercion against men have been shown to express adversarial sexual beliefs (Anderson, 1996), view relationships as a means of gaining power and control in relationships (Craig Shea, 1998), have relationships that are characterized by game playing (Craig Shea, 1998), and view men as sexual adversaries (Struckman-Johnson, 1991). Because societies differ in the extent to which they view sexual relationships as antagonistic versus mutually pleasurable (Dixon-Mueller, 1993), the extent to which sexual coercion occurs in a society could be partly related to how hostile each gender is towards the other in that culture”
WOW. Who are often the loudest about how deceptive, manipulative and exploitative sexual relationships are? who are the ones who view it as some bizarre transaction? who encourages game playing, psychological manipulation and lowering someone’s self esteem to keep them in place? if you guessed MRAs and PUAs you are correct. And yea, this includes goldiggers and women like this too. It just so happens MRAs and PUAs are the loudest about it.
This study seem to make one thing very clear- stop treating the opposite sex like enemies and start treating them like equals and the amount of rape goes down. Stop viewing relationships and sex as a form of power and control over someone and the amount of rape and coercion goes down. Surprise surprise -_-
Taint:
I admit that she was assaulted but that there is legitimate reason to harbor at least some doubt about that claim given that rape and rape accusation can be a political act.
Do you wonder whether I care?
Piggly-Wiggly:
I don’t wonder.
You do.
You know how I know? You have to move to more over the top attempts to insult me.
Though I understand that not being able to spell the Latin, even with my help, was a bit hard to bear.
Care to deal with the dichotomy between you admitting her assault, and denying it? Because she was, and it’s just reportage, or she wasn’t, and it’s false accusations for political purpose.
You painted that bright light.
“She’d been associated with face painting and she’d been an anti-rape/feminist activist.”
the day our culture associates anti-rape/feminist activist a negative is a sad day indeed.
And yes Piggy, you are engaging in self victim blaming. People have the right to go out at night and not get assaulted. Drunk people may be drunk, but it’s still their fault if they assault someone. Moresoe, even if you did take precautions, there’s still a chance you’d have been assaulted. Everyone risks certain dangers when they go out in public.
And the typical “I know a dude who was falsely accused” excuse. Just because you “know a guy” doesn’t mean you can assume rape victims are liars. That’s no different than me saying I knew a guy who beats his girlfriend, therefore I assume all guys are potential woman beaters and discount their claims of being non woman-beaters unless proven otherwise. See the problem with that? This girl wasn’t only met with skepticism either, she was called every degrading name in the book.