From time to time, something will happen on the Internet or in real life that I know I should write about for Man Boobz, but it’s so infuriating or depressing that I can’t bring myself to write about it. The recent bullshit on Reddit involving a young woman whose story of a sexual assault was met with angry disbelief until she provided video proof that her injuries were real is a perfect case in point.
Briefly, what happened is this:
A young woman posted about a sexual assault she’d endured a day or so earlier – a man had tried to rape her, pushing her to the ground and scraping her face on the pavement. In a separate topic she posted a picture of her injuries, most notably a giant scrape on her cheek. You can see it at right; click on the picture to see it full size.
Then another Redditor noticed that some time back, the same woman had posted a picture of herself in zombie makeup. This, he said, made him skeptical that her injuries were real — it was probably just a good makeup job.
That was all it took to send Reddit into a full internet lynch mob frenzy: obviously this woman was a liar and an attention whore and, even worse, possibly a feminist anti-rape activist! Redditors suddenly became both medical and makeup experts, and declared that the giant scrape on her face was obviously phony. (Not to me; I tried arguing with several of them to no avail.) It got ugly, very ugly, very quickly.
The woman at the heart of the storm asked if she needed to post an actual video of her cleaning the wound on her face to show that it was real; a redditor demanded that she do just that.
So she did. (Here it is.) Long story short: the scrape is real. The woman also posted a picture of the business card given to her by the police detective she’s spoken to when reporting the incident. It’s now pretty clear that there is no reason to doubt that her story is true. Even the Redditor who originally challenged her story realized that she was almost certainly telling the truth.
Here’s her post offering proof to back up her story.
At this point the lynch mob lost its steam; some people even apologized to her.
But the evidence of the ugliness remains in a host of different threads and different subforums on Reddit. I honestly don’t have the energy or the patience to sift through all of the ugliness; luckily, Jezebel has given a decent account of the whole spectacle; you can go there to get some more of the details.
You might also want to look in to the main thread where most of the ugliness occurred — though at this point many of the vile accusatory comments that got upvoted when everyone seemed to assume she was lying have been retroactively voted down. (The screenshot I posted above gives a better idea of what it looked like at the time; here’s another screenshot with some of the choicer comments.)
Naturally, Men’s Rightsers contributed to the ugliness – though most of the worst comments appeared outside of the Men’s Rights subreddit, and a surprising number of r/mr regulars refused to jump on the original “she’s a liar” bandwagon.
While many Men’s Rightsters are now apologetic, others still think she may be lying.
Here’s a good discussion of the whole thing in ShitRedditSays, and a followup.
Amnesia,
No, I’m not implying or saying that. My only point with that is that nobody really cares when shitty things happen to men. Separate point; I’ll focus on this incident from here.
“Are you saying that people who haven’t been sexually assaulted are automatically unsympathetic to victims? ”
I’m saying that until men like this from the Manosphere start getting sexually assaulted, there’s going to be this coginitive dissonance with them.
Hmm. Earlier this year, some 18 men were arrested in Texas for the repeated gang rape of an 11-year-old girl. Far from getting any sympathy in the media, she was described as a child who wore eye-liner (the implication being, of course, that if she applied make-up, she was asking to be repeatedly raped by 18 people, and did I mention she was eleven?) and hung out with teenage boys at the playground (the implication being that an eleven year-old child who goes to a playground and — gasp!! — talks to boys is obviously a whore), and her mother as ambitious and unfriendly, and her family life as complicated (the implication being, again, that her socio-economic background made her a slut, and by the way, she was eleven). There was plenty of sympathy expressed for the accused, however, and for how the arrests created “fear” among the boys and young men in that community (not being able to rape an 11-year-old at will? Feminist oppression!!). Concern was expressed that the horrible accusation is something that the accused “boys” — some of whom had criminal records, including a history of rape and homicide — would have to live with for the rest of their lives (the implication being that the rape charge is false anyway). Source
Sympathy for rape victims? From us, maybe. Not from the general public.
GL Piggy, there is a difference between the phrase “Prove it or you’re lying” and “Tits or GFTO”. The second is more commonly used against women, to make them feel unwelcome. The phrase pretty much says that in a particular Internet space, women are only welcome if they offer something sexual. It is a gendered insult. I don’t care if 90% of the Internet has that rule. It’s wrong no matter what. “Prove it or you’re lying” can be an asshole thing to say if someone should be given the benefit of the doubt, but it can be used against either men or women so it’s not a gendered insult.
The assholes at Reddit were not showing reasonable skepticism to a unlikely claim in the OP. The girl made a legitimate claim, and they decided to call her a liar without any reason at all. If they decided to adopt a tits or GTFO rule in their space, then I will call them assholes. It’s very sad that the poor girl got verbally attacked by them.
I don’t know about that, I’m pretty sure they’d just find some way to blame it on feminism/women and continue on their merry, hateful, cognitively dissonant way.
Piggy: And now that I’ve dug through the many links to this incident, I’ve come across the woman’s recounting of the story.
Yeah, there doesn’t seem to be any good reason to doubt her.
Which means you are the asshole. You could have done that “work” before you made the passive aggressive accusation of her saying she was misrepresenting her assault.
Then, to ice the cake, you make apologies for all the other assholes; with the tired old canard of, “all too many false accusations”.
You justify a virtual lynch mob, and literal character destruction because of the poltical motivation you have to promote the idea of false rape being a significant problem; in either the justice system, or individual men’s personal lives.
So me calling you an asshole, is me being polite, and generous.
@G.L.Piggy: “My only point with that is that nobody really cares when shitty things happen to men.”
Well, clearly misogynists care when shitty things happen to women, as this incident demonstrates. Personally, I would prefer they didn’t care.
“My only point with that is that nobody really cares when shitty things happen to men.”
Or women, it would seem. It’s a cruel and uncaring world we live in.
Amused,
I wrote extensively on the Cleveland 19 case.
The writer of that NYT article reported what was told to him in the community. She was described as wearing make-up because that’s what the idiots who were trying to defend those 19 young men were telling the reporter. That entire community was ready to excuse the culprits. Quanell X, a member of Nation of Islam, went to Cleveland, Texas to defend those young men. In a town hall meeting he even put her Facebook pictures up for everyone to look at. But where was the media then? That entire story was a farce to protect yet another group of black males who’d been accused of rape. As a side note, Amanda Marcotte joined the fray by comparing Cleveland, Texas – with its gang rape and its high per capita rape rate – to her small west Texas town of Alpine where rapes rarely occur (or, at least, are reported).
That entire story was a snow job. If the NYT guy hedged in any direction it was to protect the group of black youth from scrutiny.
Piggy wrote, “i should also point out that this type of “Tits or GTFO” mentality occurs in all parts of the internet. if a guy at a PUA blog says that he bagged a 10 or if he boasts about something of consequence, he’ll be met with that rebuttal. “Prove it or you’re lying”. And they don’t relent until you do prove it.”
So they, what? Post pictures of themselves with their cocks inside the girl? Do their partners know they’re doing this without their permission?
Societal Contract, what the eff is with you?
Perenium:
do you have anything to say to me beside calling me an asshole? because i’m not reading whatever else you’re writing. my eyes key in on your lame, repetitive attempts to shame me and then i look elsewhere. so save your energy.
Molly Ren:
If they don’t know you from Adam or think that your post is either outlandish or exhibits gratuitous displays of heroism, coolness, or what have you, they just don’t believe you. if you’re an established commenter and others can sense that you’re not a bullshitter, then your anecdotes and experiences are accepted.
i wonder if anyone else would agree that the methods of weighing evidence would be quite different in a virtual arena compared to a real-life one. If you can accept that then it isn’t crazy to accept the argument that people on the internet are going to a be a little more callous or unrelenting in asking another person to prove their case. The woman in this case was under no obligation to prove herself, but she put her story on the internet in a public forum. If she cares about proving her case, then the burden is on her. And that burden will be higher than IRL.
That being said, from a subjective interpretation, the evidence she provided seems to support her claim. If anyone is still strongly skeptical, that is their right, but they may have other motives to not believe her.
“A little originality would be nice.”
Yeah, it would be, but I’m not getting paid for creativity and originality here, so it can take a pass. You? Can fuck right off.
“The assholes at Reddit were not showing reasonable skepticism to a unlikely claim in the OP. The girl made a legitimate claim, and they decided to call her a liar without any reason at all.” – from what I understand, it’s the fact that she had previously had zombie makeup on thus the implication that the wound was also fake, and the fact that shortly before this, somebody else had lied about having cancer. Doesn’t excuse their hateful comments, but I wouldn’t say they had no reason at all.
“If they don’t know you from Adam or think that your post is either outlandish or exhibits gratuitous displays of heroism, coolness, or what have you, they just don’t believe you.”
So what did you find “heroic”, “cool”, or “outlandish” about her story, Piggy?
I’m still wondering what level of proof these guys would require from a PUA if he’d been held to the same standards as this girl. Nekkid pics? A live video? Bloodstained sheets? Y’all know trading that shit around can get you shut down, right?
@G.L.Piggy: “The writer of that NYT article reported what was told to him in the community. ”
Well, isn’t it curious how none of the people in the community had anything sympathetic to say about the victim, but were plenty sympathetic to the perpetrators? Sure seems to go against your claim that rape victims get universal sympathy. Quite the opposite seems to be the case.
Piggy:
I’m sorry, I don’t believe you were assaulted. Do you have photos to prove it?
From G. L. Piggy:
> That entire story was a farce to protect yet another group of black males who’d been accused of rape.
Presented without comment.
Actually, I have no doubt you were assaulted, I just value consistency.
Hide and Seek:
Yeah, I have proof on my blog, actually. Look for it if you like. I have no vested interest in proving my case though. This woman did. Also, regular assault isn’t political, thus, people don’t lie about it and statistics of its occurence aren’t reported on in the media and repeated as gospel and as evidence that our society is fundamentally flawed.
Actually, G.L.Piggy, by your logic, you DO have a vested political interest in your case. You are part of a movement that claims that men are constantly violently assaulted left and right, and no one ever does anything about it. So — again, by the standard you yourself set up — when you claim that you were violently assaulted and no one did anything about it, it seems rather fortuitous.
“Well, isn’t it curious how none of the people in the community had anything sympathetic to say about the victim, but were plenty sympathetic to the perpetrators? Sure seems to go against your claim that rape victims get universal sympathy. Quite the opposite seems to be the case.”
Yes. The blogger at WHATABOUTOURDAUGHTERS says this is very common in her ethnic community. That NAACP, NOI (Nation of Islam) and other Black male leaders NEVER come out in support of Black female victims when they are victimized by other Black men, but rather come to the aid of the Black male perpetrators. The Dunbar Village Horror is another example she uses, along with, oh about 100 others over at her blog.
*
Piggy wrote, “i should also point out that this type of “Tits or GTFO” mentality occurs in all parts of the internet. if a guy at a PUA blog says that he bagged a 10 or if he boasts about something of consequence, he’ll be met with that rebuttal. “Prove it or you’re lying”. And they don’t relent until you do prove it.”
Molly, “So they, what? Post pictures of themselves with their cocks inside the girl? Do their partners know they’re doing this without their permission?”
I smell some tasty court cases. Bring these mofos down by any means possible.
Piggy refers to it as being “lip raped”.
SC, shut up.
“people don’t lie about it” Yeah, go ask anyone who works in the criminal law field about that one. Even your non-intimate partner assaults, classic barfight assaults, often have wildly different versious of events coming from the defense and prosecution. Including the infamous, “I don’t know who bit his ear off, but it wasn’t me” case that one of my law professors was involved in. Also, it would be much better for society if non-sexual assault and murder rates were reported more statistically and less as a racialized case by case stigmatizing factor, because it would be helpful for people to be aware that this crimes have been experiencing significant and continuous decreases in rates over the past few decades and that the “criminals” fueling the US prison industrial complex are not by and large violent offenders, but rather drug and immigration law violaters.
Nope…not used.
Even when reported, ignored