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bullying douchebaggery drama evil women false accusations misogyny MRA rape reddit

The recent ugliness on Reddit

From time to time, something will happen on the Internet or in real life that I know I should write about for Man Boobz, but it’s so infuriating or depressing that I can’t bring myself to write about it. The recent bullshit on Reddit involving a young woman whose story of a sexual assault was met with angry disbelief until she provided video proof that her injuries were real is a perfect case in point.

Briefly, what happened is this:

A young woman posted about a sexual assault she’d endured a day or so earlier – a man had tried to rape her, pushing her to the ground and scraping her face on the pavement. In a separate topic she posted a picture of her injuries, most notably a giant scrape on her cheek. You can see it at right; click on the picture to see it full size.

Then another Redditor noticed that some time back, the same woman had posted a picture of herself in zombie makeup. This, he said, made him skeptical that her injuries were real — it was probably just a good makeup job.

That was all it took to send Reddit into a full internet lynch mob frenzy: obviously this woman was a liar and an attention whore and, even worse, possibly a feminist anti-rape activist! Redditors suddenly became both medical and makeup experts, and declared that the giant scrape on her face was obviously phony. (Not to me; I tried arguing with several of them to no avail.) It got ugly, very ugly, very quickly.

The woman at the heart of the storm asked if she needed to post an actual video of her cleaning the wound on her face to show that it was real; a redditor demanded that she do just that.

So she did. (Here it is.) Long story short: the scrape is real. The woman also posted a picture of the business card given to her by the police detective she’s spoken to when reporting the incident. It’s now pretty clear that there is no reason to doubt that her story is true. Even the Redditor who originally challenged her story realized that she was almost certainly telling the truth.

Here’s her post offering proof to back up her story.

At this point the lynch mob lost its steam; some people even apologized to her.

But the evidence of the ugliness remains in a host of different threads and different subforums on Reddit. I honestly don’t have the energy or the  patience to sift through all of the ugliness; luckily, Jezebel has given a decent account of the whole spectacle; you can go there to get some more of the details.

You might also want to look in to the main thread where most of the ugliness occurred — though at this point many of the vile accusatory comments that got upvoted when everyone seemed to assume she was lying have been retroactively voted down. (The screenshot I posted above gives a better idea of what it looked like at the time; here’s another screenshot with some of the choicer comments.)

Naturally, Men’s Rightsers contributed to the ugliness – though most of the worst comments appeared outside of the Men’s Rights subreddit, and a surprising number of r/mr regulars refused to jump on the original “she’s a liar” bandwagon.

While many Men’s Rightsters are now apologetic, others still think she may be lying.

Here’s a good discussion of the whole thing in ShitRedditSays, and a followup.

 

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Sharculese
9 years ago

i just…

why do these people exist…

Tabby Lavalamp
9 years ago

Fuck.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

That is so shitty I don’t even… I’m gonna go snuggle the cats and husband.

David K. Meller
David K. Meller
9 years ago

If you lie, people won’t believe you even when you speak the truth. This commonplace bit of wisdom ought to be second nature to women who are concerned about, and perhaps even victimized by rape.

Someone who does this, and who fooled people once before with makeup tricks, even in an entirely unrelated incident, certainly can’t be surprised if viewers look at her with some skepticism, given the hugh, and growing number of totally phony rape accusation floating around.

“Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on ME”

Besides, it is past time for everyone, even anti-rape activists, to understand that false accusations distract real law enforcement and court resources away from actual victims, and toward those women with an axe to grind and who abuse the rape (or sex-harassment) laws to cry “april fool!” at the first opportunity.

Given the realities of the world we live in, the Reddit people seem to have acted responsibly, however distressing the picture of the recently attacked woman is.

PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller

Sharculese
9 years ago

dkm are you actually dumb enough to believe ‘wearing a costume once’ translates to ‘lying about rape’ or are you just desperate for an excuse?

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Meller, you are a piece of shit.

zombie rotten mcdonald

the second thing, sharculese.

It’s quite a wonderful acrobatic feat to make the howling mob into ‘acting responsibly’.

I am just surprised he didn’t claim she was asking for it by posting on the forum.

zombie rotten mcdonald

Someone who does this, and who fooled people once before with makeup tricks

yeah, I am SURE her makeup fooled EVERYONE into thinking she was actually a zombie.

SURE. (dammit, I need a sarcasm smiley)

And I say that as someone with experience in the field.

Meller is quite a cobag, isn’t he?

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

dkm are you actually dumb enough to believe ‘wearing a costume once’ translates to ‘lying about rape’ or are you just desperate for an excuse?

This isn’t an either or proposition, Sharculese. He’s both.

Warty and slimy, and a rancid shade of green.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

I call for DKM to be banned. He just lost what little amusement he provided.

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

Not surprising considering that, in spite of the actual evidence against DSK, the MRM has been crowing about how his accuser totally made it all up.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

DKM: You are cordially invited to fuck yourself and the horse you rode in on. And then go your own fucking way.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

There seems to be no way–maybe literally no way, like not if it was on video and the attacker confessed and there are twenty-three nuns and priests as witnesses–to convince MRAs something isn’t a ZOMG FALSE RAPE ACCUSATION if they make up their mind to see it that way.

This woman is brave as hell and I hope that in the mess at least a few people learned to question their tendency to make nasty assumptions.

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

Besides, it is past time for everyone, even anti-rape activists, to understand that false accusations distract real law enforcement and court resources away from actual victims

Don’t you have a cross to go burn?

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I think that on some level, the “she still must be lying” people aren’t as bad (although they’re disgusting) as the people who admit she’s telling the truth but then jump into “skepticism is good, I regret nothing” or “but there are a lot of false accusations, let’s talk about false accusations now” or “well, how dare she talk about it, and in public, what’s more!”

If someone is completely resistant to evidence, well, they’re just stupid; but if someone understands when they’re wrong about facts but not when they’re wrong about how you fucking treat human beings, that’s a very different and much scarier level of horrible.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
9 years ago

DKM crossed the line, went back, took a dump on it, then ran away for miles over on the other side of the line.

Calling for ban.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Also, DKM, look in a fucking mirror and think about what’s happened to your fucking life.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

DKM, I’d send you to Being a Decent Human Being 101, but I think that’s too advanced for you. Remedial Humanity, maybe? Or will we have to set up a basic tutorial?

Societal Contract
Societal Contract
9 years ago

How soon can we implemented the 2 sides of the Mississippi River program?

We’ll keep a few honorable men, like Mr. Futrelle, on our side, otherwise I see no reason that women should have to share space with monsters.

As Lady Raine (Wendy Shwartz) pointed out already, women NEVER needed men until we were FORCED to pretend that we did through the farce invention of a horrible thing called “the marriage INSTITUTION”…. yep, coz you gotta be crazy to fall for that.

I’m done with being institutionalized.

Karma will bite these mofos in the ass and they’ll get their due.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

SC, please let’s not forget that men who act like normal human beings make up the vast majority in the real world.

I don’t NEED men–but I like some of them just fine.

Sharculese
9 years ago

@david,

could i interest you in maybe also deleting that… thing he left behind. i dont like knowing it exists.

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

How soon can we implemented the 2 sides of the Mississippi River program?

We’ll keep a few honorable men, like Mr. Futrelle, on our side, otherwise I see no reason that women should have to share space with monsters.

I’d like to point out the New Orleans is technically on the east side of the river. I’ll miss Seattle, but I’ll live with the consolation prize.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

How soon can we implemented the 2 sides of the Mississippi River program?

Still not interested. Even if it means sharing space with a toad like Meller.

Societal Contract
Societal Contract
9 years ago

“Still not interested. Even if it means sharing space with a toad like Meller”

I said our side will keep honorable men like David Futrelle and this hunk;

Shit! I might have to rethink my BJ position.

Matthew Cline
9 years ago

DKM has to be a troll. No one could possibly believe that putting on a freaking zombie costume constitutes “lying”.

ClioPersephone
ClioPersephone
9 years ago

@SC: I for one still happen to like the majority men that I meet. Separation of men and women won’t change the fact that violence exists and that it is perpetuated.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

could i interest you in maybe also deleting that… thing he left behind. i dont like knowing it exists.

Or just view it in its proper place: As a reminder of the evil ideas that the MRM/pro-rape/rape apologist party tries to spread. Shit. It’s not like actual fucking judges in rape cases don’t say worse shit all the time. On the one hand it’s shocking, and on the other, you gotta stare it in its ugly face to banish it. What’s shocking, actually, is that MRAs like Meller and the slaveman are recycling age-old ideas about women’s and men’s sexuality like it’s something they just discovered. We shouldn’t have to fight the same blatant lies that anti-rape activists have been fight against for the past half a century. Isn’t it time for progress?

Sadly, this post reminds me that if a woman with a black eye can’t be believed to have been injured, what about all the rape victims who have no injuries? Who will believe them?

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

This made me so angry >: Apparently besides all the other groups that “can’t be raped” or that we can’t believe, now it’s ppl who have exp w/ zombie make up!? >: I HATE the internet detectives… I had ppl do the exact same thing to me on my LJ when I was writing about what happened to me. And it’s the same “hmm you didn’t mention where your arm was on the couch” “why didn’t you fight back” etc etc…

What bugs me is that in the wake of her proving the injury is real (which yeah, doesn’t mean whether it happened or not, but the injury is real), people are doing the “we were just going with the facts at hand!” “we’re just being fair and neutral!” Actually… neutral is “we have no idea what happened”…. “we have no idea what happened” != “she must be lying”. It means you have NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED. Once you start speculating on what happened, you ARE taking a side, and making assumptions and constructing narratives >_>;;

Ugh. I’m glad she’s getting some apologies though :]

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

David K. Meller | September 12, 2011 at 9:52 pm
If you lie, people won’t believe you even when you speak the truth. This commonplace bit of wisdom ought to be second nature to women who are concerned about, and perhaps even victimized by rape.

XD Okay… so nobody should ever believe a word you say again right? xD Ever ever ever, even if you said the sky is blue? :3

Someone who does this, and who fooled people once before with makeup tricks, even in an entirely unrelated incident, certainly can’t be surprised if viewers look at her with some skepticism, given the hugh, and growing number of totally phony rape accusation floating around.

So Halloween is a holiday of liars and nebody who’s ever worn a halloween costume can never be believed again? xD Got it. xD

“Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on ME”

I think there’s a lot of ppl here who think you SHOULD feel ashamed. xD

Besides, it is past time for everyone, even anti-rape activists, to understand that false accusations distract real law enforcement and court resources away from actual victims, and toward those women with an axe to grind and who abuse the rape (or sex-harassment) laws to cry “april fool!” at the first opportunity.

Whose false accusations are you referring to here in this situation? o_O

Given the realities of the world we live in, the Reddit people seem to have acted responsibly, however distressing the picture of the recently attacked woman is.

What responsibilities did they have that you believe they rightfully acted on? What are the responsibilities of people online regarding rape? :3

Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

DKM: what an ugly, sad little man he is. In D&D terms, he’d be something like a Kobold (and not the nice ones like Deekan)–evil, but ultimately more of an annoyance than anything else.

Societal Contract
Societal Contract
9 years ago

DKM: “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on ME”

Um, that’s now how it goes…

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

If you MRAs want people to start caring about all these so-called false rape accusations, how about you start caring about ACTUAL rape victims, rather than dismissing them all the time, accusing them of lying about it, or being slutty and asking for it?

Every single MRA site I’ve ever been to downplays, dismisses and brushes rape off like its no big deal. I’ve even heard them justify it by using women’s rape fantasies as “proof” that women probably secretly like it. There’s also non-stop misinformation and victim blaming…telling them not to dress like sluts, etc. With this sick attitude, you expect me to care? No. What this tells me is that A LOT more work needs to be done in preventing and educating about rape.

and with the way female rape victims are treated, you think this is going to make the male victims come forward? Bullshit! they’ll take one look at this Reddit thread and wont say a thing. Yea, you MRA shits really care about male victims dont you?

And Societal Contract…in the past I would have said you were being silly, but the more I read the things MRAs say, and hear about situations like this one, or whenever I go on ANY website and women posters are constantly called whores, sluts, bitches, told tits or GTFO, get me a sammich etc, the more I wonder just how much your average joe hates women…

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Someone who does this, and who fooled people once before with makeup tricks, even in an entirely unrelated incident, certainly can’t be surprised if viewers look at her with some skepticism, given the hugh, and growing number of totally phony rape accusation floating around.

This made me think. Who’s fooled by zombie make up? Like that ppl think there actually ARE zombies? XD

Maybe DKM is! Like he saw one of those zombie walks and thought there actually WAS a zombie apocalypse XD And he got super excited and grabbed his shotgun and started sandbagging his lawn and etc, then realized… no wait.. it’s just ppl in zombie makeup! xD And so he got angry, embittered and disappointed and that’s why he considers zombie make up “fooling” ppl and hates it w/ a vengeance XD

felixBC
felixBC
9 years ago

What if a lot more women went online and told their stories of being raped? Showed the bruises, talked about how they’ll be asking their school to give them breathing space to recover, and not fail their first term at a school they’ve worked for years to get into.

I think part of the reaction to the OP is that there’s an attitude that not only do good girls not get raped, but that good girls, if the unmentionable happens, do NOT TALK ABOUT IT. Certainly not online in a public forum. (It must be fake, because if it were real, she’d be too ashamed/traumatized/private to talk about it.) But what if they do? Young people have lived their entire lives online. It’s part of how they interact with the world, and have meaning in the world. I keep thinking the web is going to change society in ways we haven’t thought of yet. Maybe this is one of them. Could rape victims, men and women, telling their stories change the (rape) culture?

Donsie
9 years ago

@David K. Meller Can you provide reliable, vetted stats on the number of supposedly false rape accusations for your country, which I assume is the USA (protip – nobody can because no one can figure out how to tally them in a way that doesn’t inflate the numbers)? If you cite Eugene Kanin’s terrible 1994 study you lose. Some UK studies have come up with some of the more reliable results out there and that suggest a false reporting rate of 2-3%, on par with the percent of false reports of other crimes. You’re not refusing to believe in any other crime because of the worry of false reporting so your argument is invalid. Shut up about false rape accusations until you do something about the the real cases of rape that never get punished or prevented.

You must find Halloween pretty upsetting, then, since practically everyone lies all day long, ZOMG. Also, every child on earth because they lie all the damn time in their dress-up clothes and games of pretend.

Seriously, though, think about what you wrote. You’re saying that woman was lying by pretending she has been… what? Victimised by zombies? Yes, that is what you seem to have written. You need to take some time to reflect.

I think you means to quote it thus: “Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.” Societal Contract has kindly provided an example of the correct way to use this aphorism.

Also, if you are a troll, you’re a poor one. We may have been duped into responding but your efforts are still unfunny and you’ve relied on some easy trolling. I doubt the chans will be especially impressed.

Hengist
Hengist
9 years ago

I think what David K. Meller was trying to say (and what others have said) is that she’s showed skill at using special fx makeup before, and so she might be doing it again? Which is a dumb argument anyway, because if I were one of those guys who believed she was lying, a video wouldn’t have made any difference. All it showed is that she fell and scraped her cheek.

But honestly it doesn’t matter, even if it’s a hoax (which seems highly unlikely at this point), I’d rather fall for it by showing sympathy and support, than heap further shit on a real victim. As somebody on reddit put it, better to be a rube than an asshole.

Joanna
9 years ago

This is the problem with arguing on the internet. I could say I just ate a whole water melon by myself. But that wouldn’t be impressive enough. You guys would want proof. So I send photos of my progress eating through this watermelon. You guys call cheating or Photoshop. I post a video of me eating the watermelon. You guys call cheating and video editing.
Now it’s fair to say I can’t compare the subject of watermelon eating to the subject or rape; and those guys were total assholes about it by the way, but seriously…
I really wouldn’t be arsed trying to prove myself on the internet, knowing in my heart of hearts that I ate that watermelon myself, and half the population of internet users are too socially challenged to accept that.

On saying that, asking for proof of rape is disgusting. Are those guys so egotistical that they have to defend their gender to the nth degree?

ozymandias42
9 years ago

Quakers: Average Joes don’t hate women. Douchebags on the Internet hate women. Lots of men– including Pecunium, Spear, Kirby, Nobby, Jumbofish, Captain Bathrobe and a lot of other Manboobz regulars*– are men and don’t have the slightest resentment towards women.

*Sorry to anyone I forgot. 🙁

Jenn93
Jenn93
9 years ago

I for one would like to know more about these millions and billions of poor men who are sent to jail after false accusations. You see, I attended slut walk in Toronto, and have learned a great deal about how so few women actually report getting raped due to fears of being revictimized because the cops tend to disbelieve them, treat them like they asked for it, and make them go to ridiculous lengths to prove it. So, I wonder about the bazillion men in the clink, and wonder how much they had to prove to their fellow men that they DIDNT rape before the MRA’s believe they are innocent.

I would also like sources. Lot’s of them. Then I’d like to know where you’re sources got their sources.

zombie rotten mcdonald

Like that ppl think there actually ARE zombies? XD

hey now.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Meller: If you lie, people won’t believe you even when you speak the truth.

Truer words were never spoken, and yet you wonder why people don’t believe you.

Now, care to offer proof that this person has lied in the past?

No, of course not. That would be admitting error, and, “The Great Meller” is never wrong (not even that time with the… well we don’t talk about that, do we?)

Pecunium
9 years ago

508 points?

I really like the, “You are telling an awful horrible lie, and I don’t know why”, with the, “I’m just the tiniest bit skeptical”

Bullshit. That’s not skeptical, that’s not even, as phrased, accusation; it was assertion of known fact.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

My question isn’t whether she sustained a bruise and was pushed to the ground, but why she thought that it was sexual assault and how sexual assault turns into, as you say, “nearly being raped”.

I’d like to know what happened leading up to her being attacked. What the guy said to her, what contact he had, why she felt that this constituted sexual assault rather than just assault.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Right Piggy… She has no reason to know what happened, not any to describe it.

And you don’t need to know the things you claim. You need to either accept that the victim of an assault has some idea of what happened, or your need to admit you don’t care; so long as it doesn’t meet your specific definitions of rape/sexual assault you will dismiss it.

There is no reason whatsoever to ask “what led up to it”.

None.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

The fact he tried to tear her pants off is the usually the first clue G.L. Piggy. And if you bothered to go to the links, it has a description of the attack.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

You are a vile little piece of shit, Piggy. I knew you were a slimeball, but I thought you were a slime ball with some measure of restraint.

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

Ozymandias- if I used MRA logic, I could just scoff at your attempt to persuade me that NAMALT (not all men are like that) but I won’t. Because I’m an not an asshole like that XP

I agree. The guys on here are great (excluding the trolls) I wish guys like this would make themselves more known all over the internet. It’s very disheartening to run into sexist comments on every website I visit, on every article I read. I know it’s the internet and is to be expected, but these are still actual people with these opinions.

zombie rotten mcdonald

how sexual assault turns into, as you say, “nearly being raped”.

Really?

This is unclear to you?

Or are you just looking for fap material?

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

Oh, it breaks my heart to look at the picture of her injury. I also feel so bad for her for being treated so badly by the jerks on the Internet.

GL Piggy, so even when a woman has physical injuries after an attack, she needs to prove it was sexual in nature? Why do you need to know what events led up to the attack? That’s ridiculous. I think you should be on moderation, too, for your offensive statements.

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