From Human Stupidity, an MRA blog rather obsessed with underage girls and the alleged evil of age of consent laws:
[I]f a 15 year old … can decide to have sex with a 16 year old … [h]ow come she cannot have sex with a 35 year old? Age discrimination by law?
Are you worried about manipulation of the tender 15 year old? I have a solution:
what about legalizing sex with underage adolescents, if they first undergo an hour of mandatory counselling and a 2 day cool off period? That should take care of this issue. This would guarantee safety for the 15 year old against being conned or manipulated. More safety that is offered to 21 year old tipsy Friday night party girls who may feel sorry for what they did yesterday
I think he might actually be serious here. Though it’s pretty clear he’d be happy with any excuse to make it legal for 35 year-old men to have sex with 15 year-old girls.
Bagelsan, it ain’t never gonna happen to Brandon, so why worry about it?
@Bagelsan I live in Massachusetts. We are pretty much ground zero for women getting whatever reproductive services they need or want.
Society can dictate “social norms” all it wants. You don’t have to follow them.
That’s easy to say depending on the social norm. xD (you yourself have pointed out societal msgs you want to fight)
There’s also the fact that social norms can affect ppl around a person, and the society they live in, and it’s not so easy in some situations to just say “well I won’t follow them”. Sometimes social norms can also influence whether the person even knew if they had an option or not (like, I had no idea that transition was even an option, nor even had a context to place my feelings of gender dysphoria growing up). And of course social norms can result in harassment, violence, and various pressures on a person that influence how many options they have available, or how many ppl are willing to help them, or etc etc… it’s not so simple to just tell, for example, a trans person, that transition is technically legal, so stop complaining about social norms oppressing them. Laws aren’t the only thing that restrict a person or can be part of an oppressive structure in a society. :
Ah, of course. How could I forget that “I got mine, fuck everyone else” is your reason for existence? You defy parody. :p
My philosophy is that of borderline hedonism. I work, save my money and invest, travel, date, and pretty much live the life a lot of men claim they want to live. I am working towards building a online business so I can earn money where ever I am. Possibly move to Thailand.
Welp, I’m skeeved out by the implications. Any of you?
Just so we are clear my definition of patriarchy is one where fathers control their wives, children and home.
Just so we are clear my definition of “German Idealism” is
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-ih60vHh5c&w=640&h=390%5D
…Does anyone honestly not think of child prostitution when Thailand is mentioned in that kind of context? :p
What. The. Fuck.
“[I]f a 15 year old … can decide to have sex with a 16 year old … [h]ow come she cannot have sex with a 35 year old? Age discrimination by law?”
Because a 16-year-old likely isn’t as savvy and manipulative as a 35-year-old?
“Are you worried about manipulation of the tender 15 year old?
I have a solution:
what about legalizing sex with underage adolescents, if they first undergo an hour of mandatory counselling and a 2 day cool off period? That should take care of this issue. This would guarantee safety for the 15 year old against being conned or manipulated. More safety that is offered to 21 year old tipsy Friday night party girls who may feel sorry for what they did yesterday”
Take care of WHAT issue? The “issue” of creepy old men trying to fuck teenagers? Yeah, that’s totally more of an issue than adults taking advantage of people who are too young to make such decisions for themselves. But apparently, a whole hour of counseling and a “cool off period” will take away all the potential pain and trauma!
Clearly, you’re not concerned about 21-year-old party girls; you’re concerned about older men being able to fuck teens without consequences. Stop pretending.
Also, I love the word choice in the phrase manipulation of the tender 15 year old. Dude you are not fooling anyone.
What makes these schlubs think the fifteen-year-olds are going to be lining up to have sex with them? If the perfectly legal eighteen-year-olds are rejecting them, then maybe the really young ladies just aren’t interested.
This subject makes me so angry. I was constantly set upon by vile boorish old men when I was fifteen, including one who threatened to rape me, and it makes me sick that they might have thought this was something consensual, only those pesky laws standing in the way. Every one of their advances made me want to vomit.
@Ami: As long as people are only talking, you can say no to people. My family members might want me to settle down and get married but their words can not force me to do anything. The line gets crossed when they do have the force to order me to do something.
I don’t particularly want to fight anything. I might not like some of those norms but I am not going to go out and fight a crusade over “my dad wants be to get married and have kids” that is just a waste of time from my POV. I would rather use my time to do something else.
@Bagelsan: What do you expect me to do…go fight for a abortion clinic in Nebraska? One can only do so much. I think it would be unreasonable to ask you to fight for something where I live…because you don’t live there.
@Voip: Ah yes, the sex tourism bit. I was wondering if someone was going to pick that up. It couldn’t be because I find Thai culture interesting, the beaches look amazing and my dollar there will go much farther there than in the US…no it has to be because of sex tourism. Sorry there Voip, I don’t really think about traveling to other countries with the intention of sleeping with women there. I can get laid in the US fairly easily…I don’t need to travel 9000 miles to have sex. Also, having sex with minors is fucking disgusting…but thanks for insulting me by calling me a pedophile.
Also, not every damn decision I make revolves around women you narcissist.
“The line gets crossed when they do have the force to order me to do something.”
Hey, like women’s reproductive rights. But who cares, right? In Brandon’s state women totally have access to abortions and contraception, so the right to make your own choices about your own body totally isn’t important.
So…you’ve spent this entire discussion whining about how women are doing enough for YOU, but as soon as women suggest doing things for the betterment of women in general, THEY’RE the narcissists. Of course, it makes perfect sense.
Regarding why these guys think fifteen year olds would want to sleep with them: I think it must be that stereotype that teen girls love bad boys. So they’re counting on their misogynistic attitudes to win them over. That, or they’re just completely delusional. It could be either one.
AntZ: Walk away from these fascists. The MRM both needs and wants you. We are fighting for equality, dignity, justice, and liberty. and building The Matrix so no one has to see anyone who isn’t just like them.
FTFY
Brandon: @Lyn Just so we are clear my definition of patriarchy is one where fathers control their wives, children and home.
And that is a large part of the reason you have problems when dealing with feminism. You don’t understand what they are talking about, and really don’t share their ideals.
Which is likely to get one dismissed, no matter what the activist group is. Telling blacks that oppression = being slaves, and since that that little business was resolved more than 150 years ago lthey should just buck up and accept the way things are, because they are, “equal” now, isn’t likely to cause the NAACP to say, “OK, now we can get right on the problem of how spousal support laws are totally unfair to white dudes who have stay at home partners, so that you will want to help us deal with redlining, voter suppression, discrimanatory hiring practices, racial profiling, disparate sentencing laws, predacious lending, lack of banks in our neighborhoods, and all the other things society is still doing to us. Thanks for being on our side, sort of; if we kick in for you.”
@Bagelsan: The point is I ignore it…I don’t go out and try and change how people think.
Right… that’s why you didn’t spend more than week defending your ideas of marriage. It’s why you didn’t wade into a second thread to tell all the feminists how they are doing it wrong and alienating all the men they need to get the job done.
Right.
I find Thai culture interesting…
Of course you do! One of my degrees is in Eastern Classics; what’s your opinion of the way in which the Thai appropriation of the Ramayana reflects the hegemony of Sanskrit culture in Southeast Asia during the Middle Ages?
Or did you mean to say I find Thai culture exotic. FYI, they can tell the difference.
Also, not every damn decision I make revolves around women you narcissist.
Is that why you keep coming here?
Ooh! ooh! I almost forgot!
Ah yes, the sex tourism bit. I was wondering if someone was going to pick that up.
Which is, no doubt, why you posted it.
Now we get to look like the bad guys, instead of the dude who is OK with not telling his monogamous partner about being “poly on the side,” thinks changing your weekend plans is tying him down, and doesn’t plan to “let” his girlfriend stay home after she has kids, even if that’s what she wants.
This has been a public service announcement to remind us that using a commodity as a standard of currency is bad for your economy,
Death to America.
Brandon: I don’t need to travel 9000 miles to have sex. Also, having sex with minors is fucking disgusting…but thanks for insulting me by calling me a pedophile.
Defensive much?
1: You are talking about moving to Thailand, not visiting.
1a: Is Ashley planning to move with you?
2: What aspects of the culture fascinates you?
2a: How well do you speak the language?
3: The insult wasn’t specifically pedophilia. The sex trade in Thailand is diverse, you could get young men (or boys, if that’s your kink), or adult women.
And this is what they mean by “privilege”. Congratulations; the effect of patriarchy FOR YOU is that your father wants you to get married and have kids, but you don’t want to. That doesn’t imply that this is the equivalent of the issues faced by everyone everywhere.
I think this is a pretty good summary of the mistake you’re making:
http://noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/101-101/
You called us narcissists? That’s cute. No really, tell me another one.
“I am not telling anyone how to run their affairs. I was however pointing out a potential consequence of not being more inclusive to men and men that might not completely agree with feminism but only parts of it.”
Yeah, you’re not telling anyone how to run their affairs, but oh, wait–you are. Weasel words again.
Actually, Thailand is quite lovely, and I can see wanting to live there–though it would be a very different experience from visiting. Culture shock can be a real bitch.
NullPointer: *glows*
Brandon: Men live five years less time than women and it is thought to be correlated to social pressure to eat unhealthily, not go to the doctor, not get support if they have mental illnesses, etc. Your thoughts?
That wasn’t rly a response to what I pointed out o_O
Ozy: Given how evenly that seems to run across cultures (and to some degree across species in mammals), and that the gap exists when one is comparing terminal expectancies (i.e. when one rules out actuarial aspects of high risk behaviors in younger males), I don’t quite buy that.
I will accept that a number of men might manage to avoid some of the fatal causes, were they more proactive in getting treatment, but the dichotomous rates of things like coronary disease; and the difference in things like high blood pressure becoming more even in post-menopausal women makes me think it is a more innate aspect of male/female dimorphism.