From Human Stupidity, an MRA blog rather obsessed with underage girls and the alleged evil of age of consent laws:
[I]f a 15 year old … can decide to have sex with a 16 year old … [h]ow come she cannot have sex with a 35 year old? Age discrimination by law?
Are you worried about manipulation of the tender 15 year old? I have a solution:
what about legalizing sex with underage adolescents, if they first undergo an hour of mandatory counselling and a 2 day cool off period? That should take care of this issue. This would guarantee safety for the 15 year old against being conned or manipulated. More safety that is offered to 21 year old tipsy Friday night party girls who may feel sorry for what they did yesterday
I think he might actually be serious here. Though it’s pretty clear he’d be happy with any excuse to make it legal for 35 year-old men to have sex with 15 year-old girls.
So, Antz, you’re saying someone’s *agreeing* with you that you talk about the VR plan to separate the sexes too much? XD
Again, I am not claiming that feminists should advocate for men’s issues. I am trying to point out the contradicting idea of “men should support us” and “we don’t want or need you in our movement”
I would have far more respect for feminism if major feminist websites and advocacy groups just came out and said “We are here to advocate for women and men are not welcome”. At least you are being honest. The way it looks like now is feminist groups snub their noses at men that want to participate but then come running back when you want men to vote for your candidate or sign a petition or otherwise advocate for your cause. It is like someone telling me to “fuck off” then a few days later running back asking me for help. I would be an idiot if I just ran to their aid. The better response would be to say “fuck off” back at them.
If feminists want to only or mostly fight for women’s issues that is fine but don’t try and make it look like you are doing men a favor or helping us. The major issues that face men are largely ignored or worse mocked by feminists. This is fine. I am sure men can fight their own battles.
Brandon: Who the hell is demanding you do anything? I have not seen a single person here tell you that you have to advocate for issue x or else – I’ve seen YOU doing that, to us, but I’ve not seen a single feminist make a single demand of you. If you don’t like feminism, or feminists, or the fact that we don’t make you the center of our advocacy by virtue of you possessing a wang, then GO AWAY! No one is going to stop you, nor run after you screaming that we’ve reconsidered. Stop wasting your energy and ours and go make your own blog – it’s really amazingly easy!
yeah brandon, its not that men arent welcome in feminism, its that whiny entitled dudes screaming ‘but what are you doing for meeeee!’ arent welcome
“If feminists want to only or mostly fight for women’s issues that is fine but don’t try and make it look like you are doing men a favor or helping us.”
Brandon, do you also wonder why there is no White History Month? Or Straight Pride?
Brandon, men are more than welcome to be feminists and help or whatever in the movement. They just aren’t gonna run it. That’s what bugs you, isn’t it?
@Molly: The notion of being proud of ones skin color or sexual orientation to me is stupid. White Pride, Black Pride, Gay Pride, Transexual Pride, Italian Pride, Straight Pride, etc… I see them all as a way to divide the general population into groups that fight each other instead of just treating them all as people.
@Brandon,
You didn’t read all of my comment, did you?
Jeezus, Brandon, didn’t we already play this game in the other thread? You keep asking “why don’t feminists want meeeeen??” and then ignoring the answers, you keep saying “but how is feminism helping meeee??” and then ignoring the answers… Go drink a beer and have a wank or something; you’ll feel loads better and we won’t have to put up with your broken record whining.
Brandon, you know pride events were created *by* marginalized people, right? Because they WEREN’T all just being treated as people?
Now you’re going, OMG, why should I help out the women? They ain’t done nothing for ME lately?
@HellKell: I don’t really want to run a feminist group but that comment sounds strangely similar to “women can work here but they can’t be management only secretaries”
If you actually believed in equality it wouldn’t matter what genitals the person had. But feminism isn’t about equality is it? It’s about advancing an agenda that benefits women.
On an earlier thread I hypothesized that Brandon chooses one sentence at random from each comment to read, and I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary. :p
But Brandon, years and years of oppression don’t just go away overnight. POC have been treated as subhuman for a very long time. As have GLBTQ people and women. Advocating for their rights to be treated as human, for being proud of their identity (however the hell they’ve constituted it in this messed up world) is not about being divisive, it’s about trying to even up the imbalances. It’s also about acting as though white straight middle-class male way of being is not the only way to be human.
We don’t actually care about people’s genitals; we somewhat care about their gender though.
“If you actually believed in equality it wouldn’t matter what genitals the person had.”
Then why don’t you go and help the feminist cause, then? I thought your anger against them was gender based.
@HellKell: I don’t really want to run a feminist group but that comment sounds strangely similar to “women can work here but they can’t be management only secretaries”
If you actually believed in equality it wouldn’t matter what genitals the person had. But feminism isn’t about equality is it? It’s about advancing an agenda that benefits women.
men dont get to run feminism because its not our fight. that should be obvious. jesus mother of fuck do you ever think about anyone except yourself?
Brandon, your density is sucking all the light out of the place.
Only a truly privileged white-boy wannabee libertarian would spew the following:
“The notion of being proud of ones skin color or sexual orientation to me is stupid. White Pride, Black Pride, Gay Pride, Transexual Pride, Italian Pride, Straight Pride, etc… I see them all as a way to divide the general population into groups that fight each other instead of just treating them all as people.”
But, y’know, feel free to pick whatever word or sentence you want to take offense at and squeal over.
@Molly I tend not to just randomly help general groups of people. I do support the women that support me. My mother, my girlfriend, my aunts, my step mother. All the women that support me have earned my respect, admiration, love and help.
@Bagelsan: People join movements because they believe in the message or that the group is fighting for a cause that would benefit them. If feminists want men to support them it seems only fair that feminists advocate for them as well. Otherwise, what is the point in being part of a movement that doesn’t share your goals, values or beliefs?
I tend not to just randomly help general groups of people. I do support the women that support me. My mother, my girlfriend, my aunts, my step mother. All the women that support me have earned my respect, admiration, love and help.
Everything Is About Brandon
Are we really having an argument about “the problem with feminism is that it doesn’t put men in charge”?
facepalm
@Holly– yup, this shit AGAIN.
@Sharculese: Seems kinda sexist.
@Molly: While I do agree with a few principles of feminism, I don’t think I would be welcome at such an event. So far my IRL dealings with feminists have been met with hostility and snarky insults. Sometimes I haven’t even gotten passed “Hi, how are you?” without noticing their condemnation of me.
@Bagelsan: Fine…if it will make you happy, you can switch genitals with gender and re-read it.
Worst sitcom EVAR.
“Otherwise, what is the point in being part of a movement that doesn’t share your goals, values or beliefs?”
So you don’t believe that women should receive equal pay? Or have traditionally “male” jobs? Or that women disproportionately suffer from rape? Or that they should be able to decide whether or not they want to have babies?
“So far my IRL dealings with feminists have been met with hostility and snarky insults” makes more sense now.
Brandon: Again, I am not claiming that feminists should advocate for men’s issues.
Again, to be charitable, you are confusing what you are thinking, with what you are saying.
@Molly I tend not to just randomly help general groups of people. I do support the women that support me. My mother, my girlfriend, my aunts, my step mother. All the women that support me have earned my respect, admiration, love and help.
And helping all women won’t do them a damned bit of good, will it?
@Bagelsan: People join movements because they believe in the message or that the group is fighting for a cause that would benefit them. If feminists want men to support them it seems only fair that feminists advocate for them as well. Otherwise, what is the point in being part of a movement that doesn’t share your goals, values or beliefs?
Happily I don’t have this problem, because I’m a feminist.